The benefits of Jungle heavily outweigh Volcana (Early Game Spoilers)

[Dingbat]

I already established a reputation that I have issues with Volcana's RNG, and therefore I avoid this area entirely in favor of Jungle... but if you're looking to fulfill a quest run reliably, why should someone choose Volcana over Jungle?

Let me go over components and compare these two areas:

Platforming:

When RNG is at its best and skill takes a second hand in this, Volcana is arguably easier than Jungle. Pathways are straightforward and less convoluted. When at its worst, Volcana is more prone to punishment outside of the player's actions, and if you do not stock the sufficient resources, your run could be ended by an impassible scenario. Jungle is also far less consequential if you're lucky to back a Jetpack, considering Jungle offers no fire hazards to the player aside from the "can't see a thing" levels, resulting in an explosion.

Area Resources (Outside of Quest):

In the Jungle is where you can get Paste somewhat reliably if you can find a giant spider. Also, Boomerangs can be found easily too, which in some circumstances, is better than the Shotgun. The thing is, if you're sporting the Kapala, you are not going to get more mileage from it anywhere else than in the Jungle. Mosquitoes, an easy and abundant enemy gives more blood than usual. And with the milking capabilities of the Boomerang, being able to extract more blood reliably than the Shotgun, it's not unheard of to exit one level with 4 to 5 extra HP. Yea, by the time you have 10 HP, it starts to become irrelevant because insta-death is very prominent in this game, but still.

Volcana has Fire Dogs, a decently good mount that grants fire immunity and makes platforming a bit easier. Fire projectile wrecks Tide Pool but then again Tide Pool isn't exactly hard to begin with. Aside from that, can't think of anything else of benefit.

Quest Areas:

The Jungle's Black Market is a near guaranteed way to stock up on bombs, ropes, platforming items, another opportunity to get Paste if you weren't able to before. I also want to stress the Olmec fight here. Bombs, Paste and something like the Cape or Jetpack is going to much better prepare you here. Yes, I'm aware of some exploits in the Olmec fight to get the Ankh, but we also have to anticipate that this would get patched out someday. Volcana can't give you these resources as reliably, if anything, you can come out at a minus.

For Volcana: In order to get to Vlad, you have to take a couple of trivial, RNG hurdles with the drill. Most commonly, go through pools of lava that can cause compilations. Sometimes, you'll anger a shopkeeper and maybe even kill him to permanently agro all shopkeeps for the rest of the game. The Vlad fight itself, make sure you get Horsing to help, or you have the bow from the challenge fight to one-hit-kill him. Because if he gets hit, you risk him tele-fragging into you. Falling Vampires are also a thing that can be problematic. The Black Market, unless you pissed off the Shopkeepers, the biggest threats found here are monkeys and thorns.

All of this and what did you get from Vlad? Besides the quest item of course, a cape with double jump abilities. Cape is good against Olmec, but what good is engaging in the fight if you don't have Paste?

---

So this is why I keep saying that Volcana needs work, because I have ample reasoning and weight the two worlds between the pros and cons, this has nothing to do with skill. In the end, I just think Jungle better readies you for what is left to come 9 times out of 10. Feel free to weigh in to what you think of all of this.

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Yeah this makes a good bit of sense to me. After 50+ hours of playing, I am finding the Jungle to actually be the way to go. At first it *seems* obvious that Volcana is the way to go, but over larger time spent I think with a bit of skill it's the opposite. I do still recommend that new people start with learning Volcana to minimize frustration.

[benjymlewis]

I like using Vlad's Cape and the Rock Dogs a lot, so I do enjoy Volcana.

The lack of sticky bombs isn't always a huge problem, depending on what you find. Olmec can be beaten quickly without sticky bombs if you bring a shotgun. Or if you bring a teleporter, you can just get the ankh by entering Waddler's room and just skip Olmec altogether.

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Originally posted by benjymlewis:

I like using Vlad's Cape and the Rock Dogs a lot, so I do enjoy Volcana.

The lack of sticky bombs isn't always a huge problem, depending on what you find. Olmec can be beaten quickly without sticky bombs if you bring a shotgun. Or if you bring a teleporter, you can just get the ankh by entering Waddler's room and just skip Olmec altogether.

Oh wow didn't know that about Waddler. Nice.

[qbicfeet]

The main reason (and it's a good reason!) you would go for Volcana over the jungle is Vlad's cape, which is the best mobility item in the game by far.

Were you aware that Vlad's cape doubles the amount of blood from enemies, meaning that it synergizes extremely well with the kapala? Assuming your objective is to make it to secret end-game areas, Vlad's cape is the difference between having 10-ish HP and 40+ HP by the time you reach those areas.

Unlike the jetpack or the hoverpack, Vlad's cape also doesn't explode when set on fire (meaning that you can survive fire damage), it recharges both its jumps if you're hanging from a rope or a cliff (or the wall with climbing gloves) and it lets you descend into spikes safely. If you have the spring shoes the double jump also has its height increased, making it possible to reach ridiculous heights without requiring ropes.

The main drawback of Volcana is that it doesn't let you stock up as easily because there is no black market, meaning that you will be lower on bombs, ropes and items than if you had gone for the jungle. However, most of the time you will have opportunities to buy those items later in the game (gambling on Tide Pool 4-1, the guaranteed gift box from the fish on Tide Pool 4-2, random shops along the way).

As a side note, you do not need paste to fight Olmec's second phase, you can just use the whip instead. It's not as difficult or intimidating as it seems, especially if you have any sort of cape or jetpack/hoverpack to let you fly away to safety after you've broken his purple orbs.

[grodgers923]

They both have pros and cons yeah, It depends on your setup and what you want Vlad's cape is OP through. Olmec can be defeated with no bombs with a bit of practice. A experienced player does not need to rely on lots of resources to win. The jungle route requires time to gather money for the black market or you have to kill shop keepers for the rest of the run. Volcana can be done faster so I prefer it imo

[eeezzy]

Vlad's cape alone is worth it for me.

[VDZ]

Originally posted by Dingbat:

Yes, I'm aware of some exploits in the Olmec fight to get the Ankh, but we also have to anticipate that this would get patched out someday.

I'm pretty sure it's intentional. Having performed (and screwed up) the quick Ankh trick plenty of times, I can tell you that the seemingly decorative part hanging from the ceiling at the platform to the right is essential to the trick and perfectly lined up for it. If you blow up the bottom right tile of that part you will be unable to perform the trick; precisely that tile aligns Olmec to the correct horizontal and vertical position to enter the back layer. I find it hard to imagine that's a coincidence, particularly considering the more obvious design would be to just have a platform and nothing above it. (The Waddler teleport trick I'm less sure about, but it's not exactly a gamebreaking issue.)

Originally posted by qbicfeet:

Assuming your objective is to make it to secret end-game areas, Vlad's cape is the difference between having 10-ish HP and 40+ HP by the time you reach those areas.

Your HP always gets reset in 4-3 regardless of which route you take, right? How do you get back to 10 HP, let alone 40+ HP by the time you reach 7-1? Are you just grinding enemies at the Tiamat fight?

[qbicfeet]

Originally posted by VDZ:

Originally posted by qbicfeet:

Assuming your objective is to make it to secret end-game areas, Vlad's cape is the difference between having 10-ish HP and 40+ HP by the time you reach those areas.

Your HP always gets reset in 4-3 regardless of which route you take, right? How do you get back to 10 HP, let alone 40+ HP by the time you reach 7-1? Are you just grinding enemies at the Tiamat fight?

Even ignoring the various methods that let you keep the ankh, the yetis in the ice caves and the maggots, frogs and flies in Sunken City will give you plenty of HP without you even needing to try.

[Coach Mildew]

Hmm i don't know, jungle is pretty aids. First of all I don't like the puke green color palette compared to the the lush green the first game had. Second, the shaman guys are always positioned that the only way to get them is to jump on them, which always ends my runs thanks to curse. There's zero benefits to going to the black market since bomb boxes, bags and jetpacks all blow up now (Stupid mechanic). Unless youre looking for ropes then you might be in luck. Bear traps sometimes spawn in crappy areas that you can't see and those 4 way spike trap blocks are always inconveniently placed.

Now the volcana route is pretty much the same, big lava pools for you to jump over with the 2 falling blocks and the bunch of chains with the easy to kill lady bugs, thats it. It also has a 100% guarantee youll get vlad's cape (insta kill if you rescue van helsing, who should be playable) which can help with landing on olmec when he falls in the lava. going the jungle route doesnt guarantee a jet pack or cape for that. Now what really, truly irks me about volcana is how 99% of the time the drills goes right through lava; that seriously needs to be fixed.

[Juno Brier]

Overall I find Volcana the easier of the two because it's considerably less dense with traps, and the color palette and lack of foliage makes it much easier to identify hazards at a glance. And Volcana's stunlock death enemy (Rock Dogs) are less common than Jungle's (boomerang Tiki Men). Vlad's Cape is just a nice bonus.

[AP WOLRD 5 MANIFEST TRUST IN GOD]

I'd say personally that the more prepared you are after dwelling, the better shot you have in the jungle. Volcana is relatively easy without bombs or ropes, and gives many chances to catch up with vlad's castle not needing the eye, vlad's cape in general, getting a diamond from horsing, etc. Jungle though is very good if you already have stuff. Powerpack destroys all the leaf block thingies with the flame whip, boots means you can walk on thorns, you can get sticky for your many bombs, you can stock up with all your money in black market, etc. There is an argument that volcana makes the game easier, since you go to tide pool instead of temple, and azbu is a cakewalk compared to the duat, though.

[VDZ]

Originally posted by oo7li:

There is an argument that volcana makes the game easier, since you go to tide pool instead of temple, and azbu is a cakewalk compared to the duat, though.

You can go to either world from Olmec's Lair, and you can use the Crown to enter the City of Gold or the Hedjet to grab Excalibur.

[ShinDigPig]

Originally posted by VDZ:

Originally posted by oo7li:

There is an argument that volcana makes the game easier, since you go to tide pool instead of temple, and azbu is a cakewalk compared to the duat, though.

You can go to either world from Olmec's Lair, and you can use the Crown to enter the City of Gold or the Hedjet to grab Excalibur.

You've got those backwards

[Ћ Abomination Jones]

I'll throw in the addition that the Vlad's Cape doubles all blood drops. Yes, instant death and all is pretty prevalent, but getting 4 drops instead of 2 per hit on some enemies? Real good.

[VDZ]

Originally posted by ShinDigPig:

Originally posted by VDZ:

You can go to either world from Olmec's Lair, and you can use the Crown to enter the City of Gold or the Hedjet to grab Excalibur.

You've got those backwards

What I'm saying is both pieces of headwear are compatible with both special routes. You can go to either world 4 regardless of which world 2 you picked and still get to world 7.