Hired hands are broken in a bad way

[Wrex]

I'm a big fan of the Spelunky series, I've already dropped almost 60 hours into part 2. I've found that the best way to use hired hands is to just kill them as soon as they start following you. They present much more danger to you than the little help they provide. They have single-handedly ruined more runs than any other specific enemy I can think of (with the possible exception of moles).

I'm writing this because of my most recent run where I made it through vlad's tower/castle with Kapala and 10 health, got his cape and the crown, and was whipping a spider on the way to the exit when I accidentally hit one of the hired hand that was following me. While the whip did no damage to him, he decided that my abuse had gone to far and proceeded to stun-lock me and another hired hand against a wall, taking about 30 seconds to drain all 10 points of my health. I could do nothing but sit there and watch.

Love the game Devs, but can we fix the logic for these guys? I understand both ideas here being that you don't want accidental friendly fire to hurt your hands; and if you're being an abusive master to them then they'll rebel and try to kill you. But The two combined along with the other elements of their characters make them an uncontrollable variable that is simply best avoided at present.

[WhoCares1537]

You dare criticize a perfect game???? No the hired hands are perfect as they are and perform much better than in the last game, so don't even bother Derek with such harmful criticisms. This game is a masterpiece, and nothing ever goes wrong or functions in an unintended manner. I bought this game and force everyone in my life to play at least 10 hours a day before they can eat, and I find any criticism of this game entirely rude and terrible.

[benjymlewis]

I think the hired hands being able to stun-lock the player is a little bit too drastic, I agree. It is funny though.

[grodgers923]

First time?

[Juggz McBulge]

They've always been Kali-fuel, sadly. I thought the idea of amassing an army of them to plow through levels for me, was a really cool idea. Of course the moment I tried to make that happen, they all threw themselves into the same spike pit like a bunch of lemmings...

[VDZ]

Originally posted by SloppyJoe1996:

They've always been Kali-fuel, sadly. I thought the idea of amassing an army of them to plow through levels for me, was a really cool idea. Of course the moment I tried to make that happen, they all threw themselves into the same spike pit like a bunch of lemmings...

You're lucky when that happens. Usually they throw you into the spike pit.

[CarThief]

Amen to the first guy. People seem to be bending over backwards for their messiah of game development. Christ... Ugh...

Anyway, yeah. Whipping em by accident can occur way too often. I'd rather that that behaviour just isn't there anymore, that they "rebel".

I mean, what's the point? You can throw em in lava for the same effect, or whatever equivalent deathly enviroment you find yourself in, crushers, lasers, explosives, the list is endless. Or just take em behind the shed if you know what i mean.

None of it is recognized by them as "abuse", just, exclusively whipping them. I get it that it may be traumatizing to them and bring forth PTSD (being probably literal slaves), but gameplay-wise, this just sucks.

If they insist on keeping it in, rather then rebel just have em run off in fear.
Or if they stupidly decide to keep it, make it obvious when they rebel. There's no visual indicator right now, they just start attacking you outta the blue, with godlike reflexes no-one could hope to react to. Like, y'know, they turn red, have a angry icon, ANYTHING.

Though... Gotta say, it doesn't take them "rebelling" to kill you, everyone's got a story on how their hired hand accidently killed em, most involving shotguns or stupidly holding lit bombs. Christ, they're a hazard. They should be paying US!

[VDZ]

Originally posted by CarThief:

Though... Gotta say, it doesn't take them "rebelling" to kill you, everyone's got a story on how their hired hand accidently killed em, most involving shotguns or stupidly holding lit bombs.

Never had either happen to me (probably because they're both preventable AND reactable), but I do get killed very often by them dropping items or getting knocked around and getting me stunned as a result.

[txh0881]

I just sacrifice them to the Altar as soon as I can.

[BLAME! 40K]

Struggle with the last shortcut cause of em , found 2 hands on 4-4 , could see the door , and that 2 idiots decided to have a suicide pact , and jumped on spikes .

[Perc-ivated]

Yeah bro it happens once then never again

[CarThief]

Yeah ♥♥♥♥ the 3rd shortcut's hired hand requirement. That's, ironically, waaaaay tougher then getting a key there. Those ♥♥♥♥♥ love to suicide just to spite you.

Though i had a trick for it:
1> Start at Olmec's lair (shortcut). Enter underwater area and Find Madame Tusk's place. It's always on the first level.

2> Stand on security guy and rope him, run and climb up the pole to the locked door. At strategic times, stomp on either of them with Down+jump and climb up in a hurry. Then either get shotgun and shoot em, or hope security guy goes elsewhere/dies due to hazards, and stomp on Tusk before going after the shotgun. (This doesn't anger the general shopkeepers, thankfully.)

3> Continue until you get to the giant fish, shoot it. It can take like 3ish blasts fully to the face safely. Then aim low for your finishing shots so the bullets don't hit the freshly-spawned Hired Hand coming from it.

4> Get the hell out fast before that idiot finds a way to kill himself. Then for the next 1-2 levels, whenever he's active, pick him up and gently put him down. This prompts him to take a nap for a minute or so.
Then pray. PRAY TO WHATEVER GOD YOU BELIEVE IN, that he will not kill himself before you reach the exit. If need be, put him to sleep again (non-lethally). Keep that shotgun on you to quickly/safely traverse the level and clear out threats that he might "fight" and die on when he wakes. As long as the Hired Hand is alive once you exit the level, he comes along with you.

[Surfix]

Its even worse than that I just lost in the city of gold, I unlocked the gold character and there are 4 gold pots around him, as I am wipping the pots this mothertucker stands untop of me gets wipped and stun locks me. SO FUN!

[Bluddy]

Originally posted by CarThief:

Yeah ♥♥♥♥ the 3rd shortcut's hired hand requirement. That's, ironically, waaaaay tougher then getting a key there. Those ♥♥♥♥♥ love to suicide just to spite you.

Though i had a trick for it:
1> Start at Olmec's lair (shortcut). Enter underwater area and Find Madame Tusk's place. It's always on the first level.

...

There's an even easier way. You don't need a shotgun.

2. Get to the big fish and cheese him by sinking fast to the bottom, to an area where he can't fit on the ground. Now keep whipping him. It'll take exactly 40 whips to get him to die. Move back and forth on the ground to make sure he stays close to you, but never move to an area large enough for him to fit in.

3. Once you get the hired help, the key thing is to put them down to sleep and not move, BUT here's the other key: make sure to kill all enemies on-screen around them. If there's any enemy alive on-screen around them, they'll wake up after about 7 seconds and proceed to die. So either find an area with no enemies or take out all enemies.

[The-Nub]

I like the way that they almost instinctively throw themselves into any available pit of lava, no matter how small. They're drawn to it like flies to vinegar.

[Bluddy]

They're really good with certain obstacles, and really bad with others. They don't understand lava or conveyor belts, for example.