Olmec Stage 2 is the only flaw with this game IMO...

[Tomm Tamm]

Firstly I just want to say I'M IN LOVE WITH THIS GAME!!

My biggest issue with this game isn't the moles, or the Dwellings, or the new ghost. Those things can be learned and beaten. I struggled with them in the beginning but it was just a case of git gud (at least for me).

The only flawed design in this game is the second stage of Olmec. So you enter his lair make him break through the first floor, this is totally fine. Then the second stage comes. My issue with it is the optimal strategy is to STAND ON HIS HEAD AND DO NOTHING FOR 1-2 MINUTES.

Its not difficult, its not fun. Its a huge pace breaker from going through 2 levels of platforming fun to then standing on a gold dude while he blows ♥♥♥♥ up. Its not even hard. I'll often die due to boredom of trying to go down a little to early. If I just wait I'll never die, but at the cost of my time.

I know waiting two minutes might not seem like a lot. But I've played around 1000 hours of Spelunky 1 (on xbox). Its nice to just be able to blast through it without stopping. I'm loving Spelunky 2 but I don't know if I'll do another 1000 hours with a good chunk of that time being on top of a gold dude waiting.

TLDR: standing still safely on a boss should not be the optimal strategy for beating him in my opinion.

Let me know what you guys think!

[benjymlewis]

I agree totally. This phase of the fight is just not fun. If you want to play it safe and slow, it's incredibly boring. But if you actually want to engage him quickly and fight him head-on, it's just an exercise in futility. The way the bombs shoot out so frequently and unpredictably make it basically a suicide mission.


Thankfully, there's a strategy to get the Ankh that can skip this section of the game entirely, and it only requires four or so bombs to do:
During phase 1 of Olmec, if you can destroy the right-hand side wall in a specific way, you can get Olmec to be a platform for the top-right exit door, and enter the Ankh room from the top. Though you may need to be wary about using this strategy if you have rescued the green girls prior, since they'll be up there ready to poison you if they so much as see a bomb.

[Tomm Tamm]

Yeah I've seen that strategy. Although that wastes four (ish) bombs. Where as you can be a wuss like me and wait it out lol. The optimal strategy is still waiting.

In speedrunning that would be real cool though!

[benjymlewis]

I do get it. Spelunky is a game about weighing risk versus reward, and always trying to maximise your chances of success given your current situation. Four entire bombs can be extremely vital to your future survival, since you cannot guarantee the appearance of bombs in future shops or crates.

So I can definitely agree that the best strategy when playing this part is to avoid wasting bombs that may be useful later, and to also avoid getting into situations that can involve immediate and unpredictable death - which basically means waiting on top of Olmec for a long time during phase 2.

It really slows the pacing of the game right down to an absolute standstill, which was something that basically never happened in the first Spelunky.

[*]

They should just remove the ladder in that part of the stage.

Edit: there is of course speeding up Olmec and bomb dropping, but who knows how difficult that could make the fight

[Tomm Tamm]

Originally posted by *:

They should just remove the ladder in that part of the stage.

Edit: there is of course speeding up Olmec and bomb dropping, but who knows how difficult that could make the fight

Not a bad idea although you don't really need the ladder as you can just stand on his head. Also speeding up the bomb dropping wouldn't make it harder IMO. But it would reduce the waiting time.

The only solution i can think of is the ghost still comes in Olmecs room. As soon as you enter you get a clover to give you more time until the ghost spawns. This way you actually have to take Olmec out faster instead of waiting for him to do the entire job for you.

[MaxAstro]

There's actually a really easy potential solution to this - make the "ceiling" of stage 2 one block lower.

That would result in the player getting crushed when Olmec's head opens, if they don't drop him first.

[Tomm Tamm]

Originally posted by maxastro:

There's actually a really easy potential solution to this - make the "ceiling" of stage 2 one block lower.

That would result in the player getting crushed when Olmec's head opens, if they don't drop him first.

also not a bad idea. The issue is I can still activate the bomb throwing mode and go hide up top. You technically don't need to be on his head. Just wait on the first level for a few minutes then pop down and do your thing.

[Color]

You're absolutely right. Dwelling difficulty can be buffed or nerfed, but the Olmec fight is boring by design.

I often use it as a bathroom break. It is dull and infuriating when you just wanna keep Spelunkin', but Olmec gotta bomb that floor bit by bit.

[Tomm Tamm]

Originally posted by Ehombre:

You're absolutely right. Dwelling difficulty can be buffed or nerfed, but the Olmec fight is boring by design.

I often use it as a bathroom break. It is dull and infuriating when you just wanna keep Spelunkin', but Olmec gotta bomb that floor bit by bit.

Haha nice. I'd rather the Dwelling stayed the same but I guess that's not happening.

The Olmec fight is a whole other story

[CarThief]

Huh, guess that's something i could try then. I dislike the Olmec fight for a different reason though... IT'S SUCH A LONG WAIT TO GET THROUGH PHASE 1!

Like... Its not even hard, it's deathly boring, i'd sooner die from boredom (or glitched physics - thanks, game, killing me somehow - without a explosive jetpack/etc - when i'm one tile up and left of Olmec while he's on the floor and going up, no walls left or right, just the floor, and olmec one tile below next to me).

Like... Jesus Christ, can we just have shortcut lady build us a ladder or have her rig something up to skip phase 1? Like implement explosives on the upper layer as a optional "shortcut" that we can detonate at will so Olmec drops instantly. The kind of explosives Volcana has.

This part of the fight is a drag, even for someone like me who likes to take it easy (never even tried to beat phase 2). I dread it every run because IT'S SOOOOO SLOOOOWWWW!!! And BORING!

Hm... Guess Olmec is boring to everyone. It's such boredom/waiting. I wanna go spelunking caves and find neat stuff in dangerous enviroments, not deal with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ boss who takes 10 minutes to kill mid-run! (That's a LOT of time in Spelunky...)

(Oh, why can't he be optional for some supplies like more bombs/ropes and other non-progress stuff. Atleast, once you've beaten him and possibly unlocked a "shortcut" to skip his battle. Even a optional phase 2? As someone who's at best gotten to the watery area with Tusk post-olmec phase 1, i enjoy the levels, but HAAAAATTTEEE the slow bosses. The pelt guy's fine, he's quite avoidable if i don't want to fight.)

[Tomm Tamm]

Originally posted by CarThief:

Huh, guess that's something i could try then. I dislike the Olmec fight for a different reason though... IT'S SUCH A LONG WAIT TO GET THROUGH PHASE 1!

Like... Its not even hard, it's deathly boring, i'd sooner die from boredom (or glitched physics - thanks, game, killing me somehow - without a explosive jetpack/etc - when i'm one tile up and left of Olmec while he's on the floor and going up, no walls left or right, just the floor, and olmec one tile below next to me).

Like... Jesus Christ, can we just have shortcut lady build us a ladder or have her rig something up to skip phase 1? Like implement explosives on the upper layer as a optional "shortcut" that we can detonate at will so Olmec drops instantly. The kind of explosives Volcana has.

This part of the fight is a drag, even for someone like me who likes to take it easy (never even tried to beat phase 2). I dread it every run because IT'S SOOOOO SLOOOOWWWW!!! And BORING!

Hm... Guess Olmec is boring to everyone. It's such boredom/waiting. I wanna go spelunking caves and find neat stuff in dangerous enviroments, not deal with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ boss who takes 10 minutes to kill mid-run! (That's a LOT of time in Spelunky...)

(Oh, why can't he be optional for some supplies like more bombs/ropes and other non-progress stuff. Atleast, once you've beaten him and possibly unlocked a "shortcut" to skip his battle. Even a optional phase 2? As someone who's at best gotten to the watery area with Tusk post-olmec phase 1, i enjoy the levels, but HAAAAATTTEEE the slow bosses. The pelt guy's fine, he's quite avoidable if i don't want to fight.)

Just keep playing. You'll soon be able to beat stage 1 within 30 seconds. Beating stage 1 is as simple as running left and right whilst he breaks a hole for you. Its laughably easy once you learn the rhythm. Haven't died to stage 1 ever since my 5 hours of playing (i play ps4 too). Always ends very quickly :)

[*]

Originally posted by CarThief:

Huh, guess that's something i could try then. I dislike the Olmec fight for a different reason though... IT'S SUCH A LONG WAIT TO GET THROUGH PHASE 1!

Like... Its not even hard, it's deathly boring, i'd sooner die from boredom (or glitched physics - thanks, game, killing me somehow - without a explosive jetpack/etc - when i'm one tile up and left of Olmec while he's on the floor and going up, no walls left or right, just the floor, and olmec one tile below next to me).

Like... Jesus Christ, can we just have shortcut lady build us a ladder or have her rig something up to skip phase 1? Like implement explosives on the upper layer as a optional "shortcut" that we can detonate at will so Olmec drops instantly. The kind of explosives Volcana has.

This part of the fight is a drag, even for someone like me who likes to take it easy (never even tried to beat phase 2). I dread it every run because IT'S SOOOOO SLOOOOWWWW!!! And BORING!

Hm... Guess Olmec is boring to everyone. It's such boredom/waiting. I wanna go spelunking caves and find neat stuff in dangerous enviroments, not deal with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ boss who takes 10 minutes to kill mid-run! (That's a LOT of time in Spelunky...)

(Oh, why can't he be optional for some supplies like more bombs/ropes and other non-progress stuff. Atleast, once you've beaten him and possibly unlocked a "shortcut" to skip his battle. Even a optional phase 2? As someone who's at best gotten to the watery area with Tusk post-olmec phase 1, i enjoy the levels, but HAAAAATTTEEE the slow bosses. The pelt guy's fine, he's quite avoidable if i don't want to fight.)

You can get him to land back in his original hole after he does his first stomp towards the left. Bait him back there into the hole and then just run back and forth in that same spot. He breaks 4 blocks instead of 3 which gives you enough space to dodge. It's hard to describe but this video more or less shows what I'm trying to say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0CI7pLX4cU

[CarThief]

Huh, neat. I'm expecting that trick to be patched out, but that definitely makes him faster.
(Though if they're gonna patch that, may as well add a bloody "shortcut" to unlock to skip phase 1, too. Doubt anyone likes that phase, and its one way to reward players who've grown far past what challange Olmec can offer.)

Must also be the cause of a mental breakdown having a explosive on your back (Jetpack) in such a tight spot with friggin' Olmec. Suprising that it didn't blow up. I guess a lot of fall damage (as loose/seperate item) or projectiles would, though. And probably fire/explosives.

[grodgers923]

I agree, I often go make a cup of tea or use the restroom during that phase which can't be a good sign of a good boss fight. I think explosive crates should be added to that section to speed up the process.