New Models [Positive Opinion]

[Chrys]

TL;DR: I personally really like the aesthetic of the new Models.

Let me explain:
Whilst I enjoyed the "Glow" the old Models had, it felt too much like ripped off MMD Models. I understand that's the style the show is in, but seeing as how RWBY Chibi is going for a similar style makes me think that this is the direction the show might actually go.
(Actually, in fact, comparing the polygons of the Game Models and actual MMD models, both of them use the same kind of Mesh (triangular) which actually should be avoided for most animation things)

Sure there's issues here and there (with them looking rather clay-esque but I can see that improve in the future. ), but We gotta wait and see how it turns out.

I have many say they think this 'Doll'- look is creepy, but I disagree to a certain degree. Again, kinks to work out, it's the first time they showed these models. In motion they look totally fine, it's just that stills can make it creepy. (Hence why they gotta work on that)

I personally feel this is an interesting direction the game is taking, and it feels like it's finally becoming something more... original. (I'm sorry if my choice of words seems harsher than intented).

Especially for characters like Weiss, this new style makes them look more.. elegant and mature in a sense.
I'm looking forward to improvements and seeing how it goes.

If they decide to change back to the old models, I'm totally fine with that too, though I also wouldn't mind them keeping these. (Especially since it seems to be less taxing on people's PCs allegedly)

EDIT: Since people didn't seem to understand from the start, I've only ever been talking about the AESTHETHIC.

I do agree that there is actual issues with the model themselves. Anatomy issues, shading issues, texture issues etc.
From a Modeling standpoint they are... beginner level of okay. (And I'm only ever talking about the face here since the rest of the model is perfectly fine aside from the occasional long thighs)
It's just I like the more mature look of the textures (the eyes being a different shape, there being less glow, Yang's hair being more detailed etc).

Also, I am trying to view this as someone who HADN'T SEEN THE OLD MODELS. I am NOT comparing them to the old ones. I am just thinking: "Wot if my friend came up to me and told me he made these models for a game he's working on?"

[Chrys]

leucome a écrit :

I did try to make a paint over too... with Weiss character and the goal of keeping the shading and not changing it too much.. She still look a little bit like she is day dreaming or something... Maybe with a proper expression.

I posted it in the bug report section because it's bugging me.
It's called... New character face, the analyse...

I took a quick look and yes, this basically sums it up pretty well. Only thing I probably wouldn't change is the mouth size, since technically it's correct. It simply looks odd since the lips are shaded in such a weird way.
(I learnt at some point that generally speaking with anime, the mouth and eye width should be the same-ish. (this is excluding extremes such as Chibi or Bara))

[leucome]

Yeah mouth size may be tweaked a lot. Usually for real mouth the corner line up with the centre of the eyes. But I guess making the mouth the same width that the eye make sense.

I would had probably chosen to go with a line mouth instead of full lips.

Something like this maybe...
http://i1.wp.com/www.cgmeetup.net/home/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Improving-Anime-Character-Modeling-Workflow-1.jpg

[Trege Valerian]

I thought I'd just leave this here as well just for an easy comparison. I can't stand the new models. http://i.imgur.com/OzcBSOv.jpg

Also changing something for the sake of originality is always a terrible idea, it's the fix what isn't broken mentality that ruins many great series. I've heard some people argue that they blended in too well with the landscapes or didn't stand out. A simple solution to that is adjust the shading/lighting not change the models completely. If you want to alienate an entire fanbase then this is a good example of how to do so by changing what was never broken instead of just adjusting it.

I don't know how easy it is to understand for people who don't work with 3d modeling but simply changing the lighting or shading can make a whole worlds worth of difference instead of making some brand new model that completely disregards the show's art style and no this is not an opinion. The fact is the new models objectively do not match the show's art style and if this were an original game and not based on the show at all this wouldn't have been an issue, but the fact is this is based on Rwby and not using Rwby's art style will in fact alienate the fans, and make it feel like some cheap knockoff, or some movie based game that always does horribly.

All I see from these new models is Disney Princess knock offs instead of the Rwby characters we know and love. If it doesn't get changed back then I guess this is why I will no longer buy early access games.

[leucome]

Just tested a bigger mouth. She look more angry each time I scale the mouth.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154164342384153&set=pb.795509152.-2207520000.1462658889.&type=3&theater

[cami]

For a discussion in how to use cel shading to properly represent the plane of an anime character's face, read page 21 of this presentation made for Guilty Gear Xrd: http://www.ggxrd.com/Motomura_Junya_GuiltyGearXrd.pdf

The lighting problem is fixed by setting the vertex normals of the face towards the front of the face, rather than letting the vertex normals be calculated normally. This achieves the effect of letting the face retain it's shape, but making so the face isn't shaded so irratically.

[Person012345]

Trixie_Lulamoon a écrit :

I thought I'd just leave this here as well just for an easy comparison. I can't stand the new models. http://i.imgur.com/OzcBSOv.jpg

dgyvsagfhsg the aesthetic of the before is just so much infinitely better than the after, and much more true to the show. I DON'T WANT TO BE A MORE 3D LOOKING OR "REALISTIC" WEISS ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, I WANT TO BE WEISS. I really don't see how they could possibly fix this aside from just rolling back to the previous models. I can't even express how much I prefer the right hand side.

[leucome]

kam a écrit :

For a discussion in how to use cel shading to properly represent the plane of an anime character's face...

Ho ! they found a way to simulate subsurface scattering by blending a second "tinted texture"... This is pretty cool .

It's interesting to see that at same time that went as far away as photo realism as possible they found a way to simulate one of the most important thing that give photo realism to 3D character.

The change of skin tint caused by light that pass trough surface is the principal thing that make wax sculpture and translucent resin Doll look more realistic. (and most of the realistic 3D model too.)

[Chrys]

Person012345 a écrit :

Trixie_Lulamoon a écrit :

I thought I'd just leave this here as well just for an easy comparison. I can't stand the new models. http://i.imgur.com/OzcBSOv.jpg

dgyvsagfhsg the aesthetic of the before is just so much infinitely better than the after, and much more true to the show. I DON'T WANT TO BE A MORE 3D LOOKING OR "REALISTIC" WEISS ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, I WANT TO BE WEISS. I really don't see how they could possibly fix this aside from just rolling back to the previous models. I can't even express how much I prefer the right hand side.

Only because the previous may be better, doesn't mean that the current one is garbage by default.
And they were true to the show, because those models were the ones directly used in the show. Hence the switchout since the old ones are not meant for direct input.

You are looking at this in a very biased manner.
Sure it would've been better if they had put THESE CURRENT models in FIRST and then worked on the Show-Models to simplify them and then patch them in to get it to the look of the show but they're testing things out.

Thing is, I try to look at this without a Bias. I love the show and all but if someone were to come up to me and be like "Hey, I've been working on some models for a RWBY Game, can you give me an opinion?" I'd tell them what I said in my OP.
Now that's where the bias comes in: Yes, of course if you compare them to the old ones they are bad, yes if you take into consideration that they're made by RT staff themselves they are bad.

And as they said in the update, they're working on changing the toon, Textures to fit it back into the style of the show.

[Person012345]

AnglaisRose a écrit :

Only because the previous may be better, doesn't mean that the current one is garbage by default.
And they were true to the show, because those models were the ones directly used in the show. Hence the switchout since the old ones are not meant for direct input.

You are looking at this in a very biased manner.
Sure it would've been better if they had put THESE CURRENT models in FIRST and then worked on the Show-Models to simplify them and then patch them in to get it to the look of the show but they're testing things out.

Thing is, I try to look at this without a Bias. I love the show and all but if someone were to come up to me and be like "Hey, I've been working on some models for a RWBY Game, can you give me an opinion?" I'd tell them what I said in my OP.
Now that's where the bias comes in: Yes, of course if you compare them to the old ones they are bad, yes if you take into consideration that they're made by RT staff themselves they are bad.

And as they said in the update, they're working on changing the toon, Textures to fit it back into the style of the show.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. They're bad because they don't look like in the show, and that is my one criteria for "good" character models in a RWBY game. They aren't even aesthetically very pleasing like the originals (as in the ways many people have said, right now they look like dolls etc. and while they can fix that and give them their own aesthetic, I doubt it will be the same as the show's). They may be ok if this was like an early alpha build and this was like their first models, but we already had good models. Of course I'm going to compare it to the pre-update models because THAT'S WHAT I SPENT MY MONEY ON. It isn't reasonable, even for an early access game, to assume that they will drastically change the aesthetic away from the source material in this manner. As I have said before, if the characters looked like this when I paid for the game, I wouldn't have bought it, simple as. This is a critical issue for me.

If someone did that, that would be fine. That is not what happened, this is no longer a fan game and it's not just a first attempt at it. The game has had the same true-to-show aesthetic since the beginning and they've been swapped out for what I consider to be plainly inferior, aesthetically, models.

Sure they said they're trying to change some things, but it was a fairly weak statement and I am not overly convinced on just how committed they are to emulating the style of the show again. We will have to see, but either way that's not the state as it is now. If they make the new models as good as the old ones, I will say well done.

[kokihi55]

I think most people who are upset that the models don't look like they do in the show anymore (myself included) are upset because in the gameplay trailer we saw when we bought the game the models looked like they were taken straight from the show and dropped in the game, which is a big selling point for a lot of people. Now with these new models, the characters look like knock-offs. The creepy faces and odd annimations (someone pointed out Weiss' running annimation before.) just rub salt in the wound. ESPECIALLY especially considering the price went UP with the update that, for some, ruins the whole feel of the game with models that don't look accurate to the show.

Considering the game ran perfectly for anyone with a decent computer with the old models, the forced change to the new ones is annoying for anyone who's game ran fine before, who liked the old models better.

I don't know how difficult it would be to add the option to use either the old models or the new ones would be, but I would love to be able to switch back to the old ones.

[leucome]

So I tought that the new model were not as pretty as the one in the show..
A lot of people seem to think the different style is the culprit. While i'm thinking that it's not related to the style but to the character proportion and facial feature. (ok maybe somebody can say that character proportion is also a style.)

And then I found some MMD where. the character are fully shaded or have different style but still look good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umvHS7NzFtI

This one even use totally different face but still look kinda good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmsTok3yui4

This one still have really thin outline .. but fully shaded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2NLt9aDWE

These seem have the shading painted in the texture and use no outline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jz5KArBj5s

[Richard 'Dick' Johnson]

they look nothing like the show, and being close to the show should be any third party IP's main selling point

[Lestrad]

I have to agree. I think there is a lot to like about the new models. The better detail and the removal of that awful glow that made the characters harder to enjoy. But the faces still make them look nothing like the series. Yes, that's something they can work out, but I think it should have been worked out before they released them to the public. They would have avoided much of the controversy that way.

As it stands though, I would still prefer to use the original, accurate models until the faces are redone on the newer models. Or for them to at least give us the option to choose while they do so.

[Pokechao]

"but seeing as how RWBY Chibi is going for a similar style makes me think that this is the direction the show might actually go. "
PLEASE NO.
RWBY CHIBI LOOKS UGLY AF.