Butter and Butter Model Discussion

[cami]

-Update-
Skilltacular's statement on the matter:

Skilltacular eredeti hozzászólása:

The dev time required to update the game to support the old models would require us to cut other features and content. As a team, we feel that decision would be a large step backwards. We need to focus on new content rather than be muddled down on the character issue any longer.

-End Update-

I'm gonna open this up preemptively so we can lower the amount of threads about model discussion.

Positives

• The cel shaders make the characters read cleaner and closer to the show. Despite this being the only positive, this is a big plus.

Needs Improvement

• The skin colors aren't as bright as the show's. I can probably make a texture patch for this in the meantime.
  
• The outlines are a bit large when you view the model close up. I understand this may be because the lines are already so small when viewed far away, but perhaps theres a way to write the shader so it scales the size of the lines down as the camera moves in. only on Weiss. Her lines are thicker than everyone else's for some reason.
  
• The highlights on each eye are still mirrored.
  
• Cel shading may make the character's face messy at certain angles.
  
• Spherical eyes still make eyes look weird in profile view.

I don't know how the devs feel about the matter, seeing Skilltacular say they wouldn't, but I still hope they reintroduce the Combat Revision models in a later patch.

[Adam Kafei]

I've only really studied Ruby's model so I won't speak for the others. Before I get into my thoughts on the models though, could we get something akin to Cryptic's dev blogs? It's nice to know what's happening behind the scenes between updates, especially on subjects such as this.

Anyway, getting back on topic. I would say Ruby looks about right on ultra settings (speaking of which, I was a bit disappointed to find my graphics settings reset to standard, which might be contributing to people's issues) but she does feel a little off. Having spent many hours in character creators in many games, I'd say it's a combination of the skin colour, eyes and face shape.

My advice to the modellers would be to spend some time comparing the show models and game models side by side in great detail (I wont say "meticulously" despite it being my personal standard, it's unfair to demand that of a small dev team) and just tweak the game models until they are as close to identical as can reasonably be asked.

I understand such a process would likely take weeks to complete, possibly per character depending on how many places the adjustments would need to be made and that this would slow down content production considerably (if the pattern of a new type of Grimm for each area is to be continued) but I honestly believe it would be worth doing, perhaps as a side project.

Finally, I'd like to close up positively. While I feel work of the faces is still needed, Ruby's hood and skirt look much better than before and the updated look is a major improvement on the game over the previous update, keep up the good work.

[Skilltacular]

The dev time required to update the game to support the old models would require us to cut other features and content. As a team, we feel that decision would be a large step backwards. We need to focus on new content rather than be muddled down on the character issue any longer.

[cami]

Skilltacular eredeti hozzászólása:

The dev time required to update the game to support the old models would require us to cut other features and content. As a team, we feel that decision would be a large step backwards. We need to focus on new content rather than be muddled down on the character issue any longer.

Appreciate the comment. Looking forward to the new content, and hopefully the old models aren't off the plate completely, just pushed back until more important stuff is out.

[Adam Kafei]

Skilltacular eredeti hozzászólása:

We need to focus on new content rather than be muddled down on the character issue any longer.

While I understand the position and the reasoning behind it, I am a tad disappointed to hear you're putting the character models behind you, I honestly feel they're one or maybe two iterations away from perfect.

Still, I agree that having new content is more important than having pretty character models to play the existing content with.

[Skilltacular]

Kami Peppers eredeti hozzászólása:

Skilltacular eredeti hozzászólása:

The dev time required to update the game to support the old models would require us to cut other features and content. As a team, we feel that decision would be a large step backwards. We need to focus on new content rather than be muddled down on the character issue any longer.

Appreciate the comment. Looking forward to the new content, and hopefully the old models aren't off the plate completely, just pushed back until more important stuff is out.

Feel free to edit your original thread post by copy/pasting what I said here to the top. I think that could be helpful. Your call. Thanks for the feedback either way. We all appreciate all kinds of feedback.

[El Tequillo]

That's sad. I want to get the full RWBY-"show"-experience, so I won't play until it is fixed someday. If ever.

[Pokechao]

"The dev time required to update the game to support the old models would require us to cut other features and content. As a team, we feel that decision would be a large step backwards. We need to focus on new content rather than be muddled down on the character issue any longer."

Oh for the love of god all you need to do is take the old files and put them back in. That would take like 5 minutes of their time.
I'm slowly regretting my purchase with every update.

[Broadsword]

I really don't understand this sentiment.

[Avatar_Epsilon]

Skilltacular eredeti hozzászólása:

The dev time required to update the game to support the old models

This literally makes no sense. The game supported the old models for a good 6 months before you guys took them away.

And as much as I'd love new content, that new content wouldn't mean much if people lack the desire to play. I'd personally much rather the game get back to the feel that everyone was happy with sooner and get new content a little later. That way, the new content would then be more enjoyable. Delay the final release of the game if you have to. I'd rather get a final product that looks, feels, and plays like a RWBY game at the risk of getting that final game later. Because the alternative would be getting a final game sooner that ends up not as appealing, no matter how much content is there. You guys have always had the 'play' part down (imo), but you've lost the look and feel parts.


RWBY's visual style is something that is a large appeal to many people playing the game and yet its something that you've purposfully moved away from.

[El Tequillo]

Avatar_Epsilon eredeti hozzászólása:

Skilltacular eredeti hozzászólása:

The dev time required to update the game to support the old models

This literally makes no sense. The game supported the old models for a good 6 months before you guys took them away.

And as much as I'd love new content, that new content wouldn't mean much if people lack the deaire to play. I'd personally much rather the game get back to the feel that everyone was happy with sooner and get new content a little later. That way, the new content would then be more enjoyable. Delay the final release of the game if you have to. I'd rather get a final product that looks, feels, and plays like a RWBY game at the risk of getting that final game later. Because the alternative would be getting a final game sooner that ends up not as appealing, no matter how much content is there. You guys have always had the 'play' part down (imo), but you've lost the look and feel parts.


RWBY's visual style is something that is a large appeal to many people playing the game and yet its something that you've purposfully moved away from.

I wouldn't exactely say it that hard, but you pretty much killed it.

[Yang Xiao Long: Ace Attorney]

In my opinion, Yang and Weiss looks good. The only problem I find with Ruby is her cape. I don't know if its because I'm playing in Standard or what, but it looks like a plain red rectangle. I don't like how Blake looks, though I have to admit I never liked playing as her so I tested her for less than a minute before changing character. I can't give a detailed explanation as to why I don't like how she looks.

Having different models won't stop me from playing the game, though I do understand why people are getting so pissed off by the change of them. Saying "I won't play this game with this new models" is a bit extreme, but the truth is that the old models were THE models for a RWBY game. Placeholders or not, they fitted so well that having them removed was a lowblow.

Changing the models wasn't the smartest move to make, but they can't keep spending time with them. There are a lot of other things that needs to be polished, added, fixed, etc.

[Avatar_Epsilon]

@Mask Dupants

^I feel passionate about the subject. My posts probably come across harsher than I intend. Apolagies to the devs if my posts come across as to harsh. That's not my intention.

Despite what my posts may imply, I have the upmost respect for the devs and the game. If I didn't, I wouldn't take the time out of my day to post here with my thoughts and my desire for change. I would just abandon the game without a word...and that doesn't help anybody.

[El Tequillo]

Yang Xiao Long: Ace Attorney eredeti hozzászólása:

Changing the models wasn't the smartest move to make, but they can't keep spending time with them. There are a lot of other things that needs to be polished, added, fixed, etc.

Fact is, the style of the Show is what separates RWBY from ♥♥♥♥♥♥ CGI Anime. Now that stlye is gone. Guess What...?

[Adam Kafei]

Mask Dupants eredeti hozzászólása:

Yang Xiao Long: Ace Attorney eredeti hozzászólása:

Changing the models wasn't the smartest move to make, but they can't keep spending time with them. There are a lot of other things that needs to be polished, added, fixed, etc.

Fact is, the style of the Show is what separates RWBY from ♥♥♥♥♥♥ CGI Anime. Now that stlye is gone. Guess What...?

I think if the models in a game are the be all and end all as people are suggesting thay are for them then they need to look at their priorities when choosing games to play.

If the devs consider that tuning the game to use the anime models with low impact on low end systems will take more time than is reasonable, then I will support them, especially as I am unaware of another RWBY game I can hold up and say "fine, I'm going to play this instead because this game gives me what I want".

It is my hope that they will keep at least one person on the character models project for a while to perform the fine tuning needed to make the updated models better reflect the anime. I will be disappointed if they don't but I'm certainly not going to stop playing a game I enjoy over it because that would be petty.

[Night]

Yang Xiao Long: Ace Attorney eredeti hozzászólása:

In my opinion, Yang and Weiss looks good. The only problem I find with Ruby is her cape. I don't know if its because I'm playing in Standard or what, but it looks like a plain red rectangle. I don't like how Blake looks, though I have to admit I never liked playing as her so I tested her for less than a minute before changing character. I can't give a detailed explanation as to why I don't like how she looks.

Having different models won't stop me from playing the game, though I do understand why people are getting so pissed off by the change of them. Saying "I won't play this game with this new models" is a bit extreme, but the truth is that the old models were THE models for a RWBY game. Placeholders or not, they fitted so well that having them removed was a lowblow.

Changing the models wasn't the smartest move to make, but they can't keep spending time with them. There are a lot of other things that needs to be polished, added, fixed, etc.

I think this thread summed up the differences well (pointing out the details that still should be tweaked like the details on their clothes and textures): http://steamcommunity.com/app/418340/discussions/0/350532536098459007/

I haven't updated to the latest patch yet but looking at the screenshots others have taken, the update to the models made them look less creepy (though Blake still seems to have the face from the previous update and she seems flat looking) and at least they don't look plastic like they did before. Ruby's cape does look rectangular from the screenshots I'm seeing and Weiss still has a dead stare kind of face. I think Yang looks better compared to the changes made on the other three from up close views but I feel they could use a few more tweaks for them to be similar to the old models.

I do hope they go back to tweaking the models some more after they're done working on the rest of the gameplay though and not leave them this way.