Questions

[BigBadAss33]

This might be a long post and I apologize up front.

So I have been watching videos of this game.

I'm a HUGE Survivalist game player(THE INFECTED, DAWN OF MAN, PLANETBASE and ICARUS). While each one of those games has multiple elements I like, they all seem to do things slightly different.

For Example:
1. ICARUS has far too many animals making food easy and bones easily obtained for crafting.
2. Animals in THE INFECTED are more scarce making food a TAD more harder to harvest but still not hard to find. The crates are able to be labeled.
3. Both games mentioned above the trees and rocks actually disappear when chopped down. I love that in ICARUS you have to split the logs also.

Why do the TREES and ORE not disappear? you have building animations!

PROTEIN - What is up with it being so hard to get and when its eaten you hardly get any reward? Seems too punishing. Is this on the list to be buffed? If I purchase this game I will harvest everything in sight!!!!

I'm really on the fence about this game!

[Virago]

Originally posted by BigBadAss33:

Why do the TREES and ORE not disappear?

Ores disappear over time, but trees remain as a deliberate game design choice to prevent players from getting trapped in a death loop during winter.

Originally posted by BigBadAss33:

PROTEIN - What is up with it being so hard to get and when its eaten you hardly get any reward? Seems too punishing.

Protein is not hard at all to obtain. Fishing is the way to go in the beginning.

[terry]

Ores do disappear. Protein is so over abundant I burn a bunch of it and throw in the recycler.

[RCLAC-14]

Like others said protein is not hard to obtain and extremely abundant.

You could easily eat a whole deer and two or three chickens per day. Have I said you could? Sorry. You must eat that quantities each day to not die from starvation.

But it is easy toobtain that amount of food. The entire map is plagued with wolves and bears each few meters crowding the entire map.

Do not dismay, there is a reason for that crazy nonsense: Bears and wolves are just semi static bots triggered to attack straight and suicide after alarming you when you enter a radius. Since the ai is so poor and basic, even more limited than some 80s arcade games, it is needed to place a lot of them to have some thrill.

Semi static dumb bots plaguing all the map to solve the problem of their really limited and basic ai. Wonderful

Of course that shoddy solution causes another problem: If the player should kill or avoid dozens of wolves and bears within a small area, player will have access to a lot of meat from them...
Solution? Shoddy enough again: Make the drops ridiculous and absurd, like one steak or one liver for a deer or wolf or twice that for a whole bear and make player hungry rates insanely fast.

And that is the leit motiv here: Improvisation, crude and forced design solutions and the least work least investment option always, that is too the reason behind the not falling trees despite what Virago (a developer tester and helper pretending to be a common player here) says.

[Virago]

Originally posted by RCLAC-14:

Since the ai is so poor and basic, even more limited than some 80s arcade games, it is needed to place a lot of them to have some thrill.

OP has a baseline of what constitutes a good enough AI, therefore it's a non-issue since it is vastly superior than the AI found in The Infected.

[RCLAC-14]

I've never played the infected but I doubt it is worse than straight suicide bots triggered when you enter a circle

[NocternalDaze]

Originally posted by RCLAC-14:

I've never played the infected but I doubt it is worse than straight suicide bots triggered when you enter a circle

Most games that have ai/npc have a set distance that triggers them to attack, take 7 days to die for example, there are invisible triggers that get set off when entering certain rooms that triggers the ai to then attack the player, it is even worse when you look in a room and see no zombies then within taking 2 steps into a room you can literally see the ai spawn in front of you.

[Cup of Joe ☕]

Originally posted by RCLAC-14:

Like others said protein is not hard to obtain and extremely abundant.

You could easily eat a whole deer and two or three chickens per day. Have I said you could? Sorry. You must eat that quantities each day to not die from starvation.

But it is easy to obtain that amount of food. The entire map is plagued with wolves and bears each few meters crowding the entire map.

Do not dismay, there is a reason for that crazy nonsense: Bears and wolves are just semi static bots triggered to attack straight and suicide after alarming you when you enter a radius. Since the ai is so poor and basic, even more limited than some 80s arcade games, it is needed to place a lot of them to have some thrill.

Semi static dumb bots plaguing all the map to solve the problem of their really limited and basic ai. Wonderful

Of course that shoddy solution causes another problem: If the player should kill or avoid dozens of wolves and bears within a small area, player will have access to a lot of meat from them...
Solution? Shoddy enough again: Make the drops ridiculous and absurd, like one steak or one liver for a deer or wolf or twice that for a whole bear and make player hungry rates insanely fast.

And that is the leit motiv here: Improvisation, crude and forced design solutions and the least work least investment option always, that is too the reason behind the not falling trees despite what Virago (a developer tester and helper pretending to be a common player here) says.

Hello 'RCLAC-14' ,

Well Said (in a some-what humorous way), and I Absolutely Agree❗

——

Wouldn't it be refreshing if a simple Radomizer were applied to the Subsistence 'AI', similar to "theHunter: Call of the Wild"❓

A Radomizer where most of the animals run-away from Human Characters, similar to Nature..

——

After more than 8 years in Alpha Stage development, Subsistence remains a discordant, illogical, shambles — Running on an error-filled, Dead Game Engine❗

Good Luck & Regards

[Virago]

Originally posted by Cup of Joe ☕:

Wouldn't it be refreshing if a simple Radomizer were applied to the Subsistence 'AI', similar to "theHunter: Call of the Wild"❓

A Radomizer where most of the animals run-away from Human Characters, similar to Nature..

No because all other game mechanics would break the game.

[RCLAC-14]

Originally posted by NocternalDaze:

Originally posted by RCLAC-14:

I've never played the infected but I doubt it is worse than straight suicide bots triggered when you enter a circle

Most games that have ai/npc have a set distance that triggers them to attack, take 7 days to die for example, there are invisible triggers that get set off when entering certain rooms that triggers the ai to then attack the player, it is even worse when you look in a room and see no zombies then within taking 2 steps into a room you can literally see the ai spawn in front of you.

Problem here is not the distance trigger to attack. Problem is it is just a sentry almost static bot that runs straight and suicidal when triggered.
No stealth mechanics, no visual or sound detection, no different attack patterns... even the lil ghosts of Pac Man, an arcade game from early 80s, had a more detailed ai than the wolves and bears here.

And the problem is what I've said, the ai is so poor and simplistic developer had to place an absurd swarm of bears and wolves filling the entire map to have a little thrill so to solve one problem you cause another, overabundance of animals and two more shoddy, forced and crude solutions: insanely fast hunger rates and ridiculous drops of a deer or bear providing just one or two steaks and player eating two or three deers and/or bears per day.

Once you learn to avoid predators, something quite easy, they are just a nuissance while you grind to satisfy the crazy paced hunger rates.

Smarter wolves attacking in packs and evading player when not in numbers, tougher and hard to kill bears. Stealth, noise and visual mechanics and a detailed ai... and the struggle to find food in a harsh environment instead of grinding it frenetically would be far better... but that means planning, working and a lot of testing.
But sadly here we have a developer who does not follow any plan, who always choose free assets and least work option, unwilling to spend a single dime in his alleged passion project and some fan testers whos testing is negligible and just flatter the developer and spend more time playing with cheats or pretending to be common players here at the forum

[NocternalDaze]

Originally posted by RCLAC-14:

Originally posted by NocternalDaze:

Most games that have ai/npc have a set distance that triggers them to attack, take 7 days to die for example, there are invisible triggers that get set off when entering certain rooms that triggers the ai to then attack the player, it is even worse when you look in a room and see no zombies then within taking 2 steps into a room you can literally see the ai spawn in front of you.

Problem here is not the distance trigger to attack. Problem is it is just a sentry almost static bot that runs straight and suicidal when triggered.
No stealth mechanics, no visual or sound detection, no different attack patterns... even the lil ghosts of Pac Man, an arcade game from early 80s, had a more detailed ai than the wolves and bears here.

And the problem is what I've said, the ai is so poor and simplistic developer had to place an absurd swarm of bears and wolves filling the entire map to have a little thrill so to solve one problem you cause another, overabundance of animals and two more shoddy, forced and crude solutions: insanely fast hunger rates and ridiculous drops of a deer or bear providing just one or two steaks and player eating two or three deers and/or bears per day.

Once you learn to avoid predators, something quite easy, they are just a nuissance while you grind to satisfy the crazy paced hunger rates.

Smarter wolves attacking in packs and evading player when not in numbers, tougher and hard to kill bears. Stealth, noise and visual mechanics and a detailed ai... and the struggle to find food in a harsh environment instead of grinding it frenetically would be far better... but that means planning, working and a lot of testing.
But sadly here we have a developer who does not follow any plan, who always choose free assets and least work option, unwilling to spend a single dime in his alleged passion project and some fan testers whos testing is negligible and just flatter the developer and spend more time playing with cheats or pretending to be common players here at the forum

That is the same with 7 days to die in that zombies run in a straight line to the player, they even know where you are on horde nights and head in a straight line to the weakest point of base. The infected again the vambies as they are called run in a straight line to the player.

Hold your own another game where the ai runs in a straight line to player, even in rust the scientists run in a straight line to player, they will however take cover or fallback at times but only if player is to slow to kill them. So it`s not a issue only with subsistence as even AAA titles have ai pathing that run straight at player.

Edit: And like any other game once you learn the mechanics everything becomes easier on what to do to avoid situations. Also do you have proof the dev is using free assets.

[RCLAC-14]

NocternalDaze more than 90% of Subsistence assets, models, templates, fonts, mechanics are free assets from the UE Marketplace. Just visit it.

You could visit too Youtube tutorials about UE game mapping and make your own conclusions about the time and effort put here.
We have a game developer here in this forum that made more in two weeks without having experience with the engine than Coldgames in a couple of years

Please do not misunderstand me, free assets are cool and a nice option for developers, problem is when you abuse of them and your game is more like an asset flip or a portfolio showing different random unrelated things

And no, Subsistence wolves and bears ai is even sub par to those examples you mentioned. Hence the myriads of wolves and bears covering the map and their x-ray, diving and vertical climbing superpowers to make a little threat of them

[NocternalDaze]

Originally posted by RCLAC-14:

NocternalDaze more than 90% of Subsistence assets, models, templates, fonts, mechanics are free assets from the UE Marketplace. Just visit it.

And no, Subsistence wolves and bears ai is even sub par to those examples you mentioned. Hence the myriads of wolves and bears covering the map and their x-ray, diving and vertical climbing superpowers to make a little threat of them

name the ones being used would be helpful as i couldn`t find any that was free that are being used.

My example is better than your pacman one you know pacman where the sprites can only move on two planes vertical and horizontal, whereas in this game and the ones i mentioned also have to navigate terrain variations, so comparing it to pacman is not a true comparison.

Edit: 7 days to die i had already mentioned that they know where you are on horde night, so yes it is the same as you mentioned with wolves and bears having x-ray, diving, but i have not seen the wolves or bears climb a player built structure.

[RCLAC-14]

The player, hunter and animal models, all the weapons, the menu and the fonts, even the ui template are all free assets.

Pacman ghosts had each different ai patterns, some of them more complex than just running straight towards player and evasion routines.

Wolves and bears in Subsistence could climb vertical rocks, as well as dive like sharks. Actually to mention the terrain navigation does little favour to Subsistence when talking about animals movement. For years animals got stuck at trees and glitched due to the poor pathfinding. An exploit that still persists in some cases.

Like you mentioned too animals never step over player built structures. They could climb a vertical rock but are stopped by a small wooden foundation.

As far as I know, together with the hordes own characteristics ,zombies in 7dtd have different routines and attacks. There is noise and visual detection and stealth mechanics.
I would expect to outsmart and outrun a zombie in a videogame, but I expect a wolf or a bear to be more cunning and fast. The wolves and bears of Subsistence are more dumb than a zombie

Nevertheless the poor crappy ai of animals in Subsistence, which is a fact, is just a sample of the "design" here. Together with the crude solutions to its problems

[NocternalDaze]

Originally posted by RCLAC-14:

The player, hunter and animal models, all the weapons, the menu and the fonts, even the ui template are all free assets.

Pacman ghosts had each different ai patterns, some of them more complex than just running straight towards player and evasion routines.

Wolves and bears in Subsistence could climb vertical rocks, as well as dive like sharks. Actually to mention the terrain navigation does little favour to Subsistence when talking about animals movement. For years animals got stuck at trees and glitched due to the poor pathfinding. An exploit that still persists in some cases.

Like you mentioned too animals never step over player built structures. They could climb a vertical rock but are stopped by a small wooden foundation

sorry don`t agree just look at the realistic wolf pack which starts at $59 and the textures looks way worse than the wolves in this game, even the weapons look worse that are free ones.

Pacman had a very limited border unlike this game which is open world and yes i have seen the animals wander around that are just in view distance when aiming down scope so they are not static has you suggested. and pathing the ai with terrain that is a large map with many different angles and heights is a lot harder to code than pacman pathing.

Never seen them climb a vertical rock, i have seen them go to the same spot that the character can climb, but never just straight up a vertical rock, neither have i seen bears do it either, i do see them walk around the rock to the point where i was able to climb up. Yes animals did get stuck and glitch but it is far less common now then it used to be.

Another thing that amused me was you stating.

You could visit too Youtube tutorials about UE game mapping and make your own conclusions about the time and effort put here.
We have a game developer here in this forum that made more in two weeks without having experience with the engine than Coldgames in a couple of years

I would assume though that even you know that AAA titles use the same engine to create maps which is meant to help game developers spend less time creating maps, so i am not sure what you was really trying to suggest with that one.


Edit: even the bear asset which is this one that was closest i could find, Animalia - Brown Bear (male) starts at $84.99

[NocternalDaze]

Originally posted by RCLAC-14:

The player, hunter and animal models, all the weapons, the menu and the fonts, even the ui template are all free assets.

another problem you overlooked when mentioning free assets is this.

Standard License: This is the most common license for free assets on the Unreal Engine Marketplace. It allows you to use the assets for personal projects, but not for commercial purposes. If you want to use these assets in a commercial project, you'll need to purchase a commercial license.

Commercial License: If you plan to use assets in a commercial project, you'll need to purchase a commercial license. This license allows you to use the assets in your game or application and sell it without any legal issues.

So unless the dev wanted legal issues then he would not be allowed to sell this game using free assets as it is a commercial game and would violate the standard license agreement.