Game too grindy?

[Blake]

Why is everything so damn hard to find, maintain and work for? Is this a videogame or a life simulator?

In my humble opinion this game might be a good hardcore mode experience, but not a default one. Complexity does not equal fun.

This is stress. Why not ease a little on the materials and overall hellish starvation and start compromising on design choices by making them actually enjoyable?

I am talking in general because ALL of it would sound a little harsh. 3d models, AI, animations, graphics in general are ok. Mechanics and building requirements are not ok. One thing is DISGAEA level of grinding. Another thing is the feeling of needing to shoot yourself in the head in order to keep up with the ridiculously hard to achieve tasks that are not really fun but time consuming.


Happy new Year , oh look, I found another Subsistence game out there that might reinforce my point :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHCZuaFZnmY

[00 Critical]

LOL, funny I was just going to tell you to "Get over it". This game is not all that hard... once you learn the games systems you quickly learn how to live within them. The problem with your view is Get Over It is meant to be next to impossible while Subsistence is built to be hard but doable. You only need to put the effort in and you will make progress.

Also the best video on Get Over It is on the steam page... watch the store page video.... it is a hoot ;-)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/240720/Getting_Over_It_with_Bennett_Foddy/

[Blake]

Maybe you are right. Maybe I'm not used to the game after trying a few hours with all the steel animals and stuff. Or maybe there is something to my words and something can be done about it.
Either way, I would enjoy a more simplistic and easier gameplay just for the sake of not having to Endure the game, I'd rather enjoy it.

[Fluid Druid]

Originally posted by Blake:

Maybe you are right. Maybe I'm not used to the game after trying a few hours with all the steel animals and stuff. Or maybe there is something to my words and something can be done about it.
Either way, I would enjoy a more simplistic and easier gameplay just for the sake of not having to Endure the game, I'd rather enjoy it.

i'm with you, games are supposed to be enjoyable, i don't mind a challenge and a bit of a grind but this is ridiculous, poor choices by the dev.

[Lorca]

I think this game or any other survival game can benefit a lot by simply having difficulty/gameplay sliders which controls many aspect of the game because people have so many different play styles. In my view, it has become archaic for games today, at least in the survival genre, to be inflexible. The more options you give to the player, the better the experience I think.

Subsistence started with very limited options for the player but now it has grown to have a bit more which has alleviated some concerns that people had in the past. But unfortunately it hasn't been enough because now the game is more complex than before. I wish the game had an option to bring back those beautiful indoor dynamic shadows which the dev eliminated due to performance issues and now the shadows are linked to your fps if I'm not mistaken. I wonder if there's an ini edit to force indoor dynamic shadows.

[FuBar]

Originally posted by Fluid Druid:

Originally posted by Blake:

Maybe you are right. Maybe I'm not used to the game after trying a few hours with all the steel animals and stuff. Or maybe there is something to my words and something can be done about it.
Either way, I would enjoy a more simplistic and easier gameplay just for the sake of not having to Endure the game, I'd rather enjoy it.

i'm with you, games are supposed to be enjoyable, i don't mind a challenge and a bit of a grind but this is ridiculous, poor choices by the dev.

I'm with both of you

[gameelder]

A lot of people think Subsistence is going to be like other survival games were you'll be able to kill everything in an hour and be living in a mansion by sundown. Subsistence fill a niche for players who like the slow progress toward a goal and the pleasant peaceful environment. Many people have suggested the game be changed to make progress faster, but I believe most players are not interested in another cookie cutter survival game. If you don't like the slow grind Subsistence provides, just move on to the next game because it is unlikely this one is going to change its style substantially.

[Blake]

Originally posted by gameelder:

A lot of people think Subsistence is going to be like other survival games were you'll be able to kill everything in an hour and be living in a mansion by sundown. Subsistence fill a niche for players who like the slow progress toward a goal and the pleasant peaceful environment. Many people have suggested the game be changed to make progress faster, but I believe most players are not interested in another cookie cutter survival game. If you don't like the slow grind Subsistence provides, just move on to the next game because it is unlikely this one is going to change its style substantially.

Subsistence has a punishing and unrewarding grind. It's a "meh" grind. Not worth it for most of the time due to it being too slow or overly demanding (resource wise or of combat nature).

Relaxing a bit on that front would make the game way better, and if the improvement is just right, I have no doubt it will improve sales to a wonderful level and stop being "niche".

All of this, in my personal opinion, of course. We all now that something is wrong, but there are a lot of things to tweak to the sweet spot in order to make the game fun.

[Mattlow152]

I don’t think sales are a problem I believe it’s into the hundreds of thousands of copies sold.....but no one seems to be playing or very few.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Mattlow152:

I don’t think sales are a problem I believe it’s into the hundreds of thousands of copies sold.....but no one seems to be playing or very few.

We are talking 7days to Die level of sales if this thread ends up being worth it. It's difficult to explain, but this developer is hard working and the game is well made. It's just harshly designed both in progression and balance. Delaying pleasure 40 minutes is one thing, Delaying it 3 hours and punishing the player hard in the meantime.... well, I think I'm not alone in this.

This is exactly the reason why this game doesn't maintain a healthy player base. There are very few people interested in frustration, and quite a bit lured to thrill and rewarding progression.

[!aTae]

i have played over 1k hours and will tell you this is not a grindy game at all......it is much easier to play than other survival games even with full hunter attacks on thing is you just have to know how to strategize your play....one phrase,,,,,,decoys always help

[Blake]

Originally posted by Faulyn Tae Lyn:

i have played over 1k hours and will tell you this is not a grindy game at all......it is much easier to play than other survival games even with full hunter attacks on thing is you just have to know how to strategize your play....one phrase,,,,,,decoys always help

Yes. I understand your point and I agree that WE as veterans do still enjoy the game and we thrive with every update like golden megalomaniacs because, simply said, we got used to it and play it in a highly efficient way. That doesn't make it right .


Now, share the game with a friend that has never played it before. The learning curve is steep and unrewarding . Fact.


That said, I would not mind to have the current gameplay as a valid gameplay mode through settings.

[gameelder]

Originally posted by Blake:

Relaxing a bit on that front would make the game way better, and if the improvement is just right, I have no doubt it will improve sales to a wonderful level and stop being "niche".

But then where would those of us looking for that 'niche' go? Many players like a variety of games. If every game is the same, players only play the best of the copy-cats. Uniqueness, on the other hand, is often rewarded.

[CoLS Firestar]

Sliders or options would help a lot. Maybe I like the combat and not the building. Let me have a slider to get 3 logs instead of 1.

Maybe I like building and not the combat. Have a checkbox to find double the ammo. Note that double would not make the game ridiculously easy with crates of hoarded ammo, it would just mean you don't have to sweat over every little bullet.

There's a reason why games like ARK are popular. Players can customize it to their desired playstyle. I can honestly see players buying this game, finding it's too punishing, then refunding to find something better.

Originally posted by Faulyn Tae Lyn:

i have played over 1k hours and will tell you this is not a grindy game at all.....

The irony is comical...
Actually this feels just like every other "slow" game in existence. Life is Feudal where you do spend thousands of hours digging at dirt. It's not fun. It's not challenging it's just grind.

Just like now where I'm spending hundreds of hours chopping trees to make a little 4x4 base with no roof because I need to go chop more trees.... I have 22 hours logged into the game.

Just like any form of entertainment, it really can't spend many hours of punishment in order for it to get good. I mean, have you ever tried to sell this to any of your friends? "Yeah, it's a good series but it takes 20 episodes to get good...."

[Zuleica]

Originally posted by CoLS Firestar:

Sliders or options would help a lot. Maybe I like the combat and not the building. Let me have a slider to get 3 logs instead of 1.

Maybe I like building and not the combat. Have a checkbox to find double the ammo. Note that double would not make the game ridiculously easy with crates of hoarded ammo, it would just mean you don't have to sweat over every little bullet.

There's a reason why games like ARK are popular. Players can customize it to their desired playstyle. I can honestly see players buying this game, finding it's too punishing, then refunding to find something better.

Originally posted by Faulyn Tae Lyn:

i have played over 1k hours and will tell you this is not a grindy game at all.....

The irony is comical...
Actually this feels just like every other "slow" game in existence. Life is Feudal where you do spend thousands of hours digging at dirt. It's not fun. It's not challenging it's just grind.

Just like now where I'm spending hundreds of hours chopping trees to make a little 4x4 base with no roof because I need to go chop more trees.... I have 22 hours logged into the game.

Just like any form of entertainment, it really can't spend many hours of punishment in order for it to get good. I mean, have you ever tried to sell this to any of your friends? "Yeah, it's a good series but it takes 20 episodes to get good...."

You have 22 hours logged into the game but you're spending "hundreds of hours chopping trees"? How utterly amazing! You've managed to re-imagine the physical nature of time!

[D[n]A]

"hundreds of hours chopping trees"

And not one tree was felled.

Now that is really utterly amazing!