Headshot for deer kill

[Hardee's]

Should be changed to a Heart shot and allowing all weapons to one shot. This would increase difficulty in killing instantly and make up for allowing the 9mm to kill as well (even though IRL it would destroy a deer with a headshot, thats besides the point though) Defintely could be worth exploring to give it a more relatable feel.

[Fins]

"Relatable"? That a word? =)

And no, it should not be changed the way you propose, because:
- it would be extremely strange if one can kill a deer with a single shot to the heart, but unable to instakill it with a headshot;
- the head is a clear, visible target - but the heart is not (well, not unless you'd have some X-ray sci-fi targeting visor or somesuch, displaying exact heart location to you);
- heart is much smaller - and we talk many times smaller - than the head. At least, it should be. So the heart makes one extremely hard to hit target from any large distance, even if one would somehow be able to see where exactly that heart is.

[Hardee's]

Originally posted by Fins:

"Relatable"? That a word? =)

And no, it should not be changed the way you propose, because:
- it would be extremely strange if one can kill a deer with a single shot to the heart, but unable to instakill it with a headshot;
- the head is a clear, visible target - but the heart is not (well, not unless you'd have some X-ray sci-fi targeting visor or somesuch, displaying exact heart location to you);
- heart is much smaller - and we talk many times smaller - than the head. At least, it should be. So the heart makes one extremely hard to hit target from any large distance, even if one would somehow be able to see where exactly that heart is.

Guess this guys never heard of bow hunting or what you aim for when hunting in general and yes "relatable" is a word... LOL

[Original-Pauper]

@Hardees, it's obvious that Fins is out of his depth here. Anyone that hunts knows the exact location of the heart and that a deer heart is actually pretty large for the size of the animal. I shot one in the heart two seasons ago with a crossbow. He jumped straight up, came down, took two big steps and fell over. He was dead when he jumped, he just hadn't realized it yet.

I prefer lung shots as heart shots do not always mean an immediately dropped deer. A deer has huge lungs and is quite easy to kill when you do a double lung shot.

In the game, I prefer the difficult of a headshot for a one-shot kill though. The truth is I have only been able to see one deer in the game and killed it because it was inside my perimeter wall. The sample size is too small. Let's all play with it a while and then give feedback after we attempt to kill 20 or more. There may be a learning curve which I like.

[Will]

Originally posted by Original-Pauper:

@Hardees, it's obvious that Fins is out of his depth here. Anyone that hunts knows the exact location of the heart and that a deer heart is actually pretty large for the size of the animal. I shot one in the heart two seasons ago with a crossbow. He jumped straight up, came down, took two big steps and fell over. He was dead when he jumped, he just hadn't realized it yet.

I prefer lung shots as heart shots do not always mean an immediately dropped deer. A deer has huge lungs and is quite easy to kill when you do a double lung shot.

In the game, I prefer the difficult of a headshot for a one-shot kill though. The truth is I have only been able to see one deer in the game and killed it because it was inside my perimeter wall. The sample size is too small. Let's all play with it a while and then give feedback after we attempt to kill 20 or more. There may be a learning curve which I like.

Your post is pretty relatable, thanks mate.

[Lexor76]

Originally posted by Fins:

"Relatable"? That a word? =)

And no, it should not be changed the way you propose, because:
- it would be extremely strange if one can kill a deer with a single shot to the heart, but unable to instakill it with a headshot;
- the head is a clear, visible target - but the heart is not (well, not unless you'd have some X-ray sci-fi targeting visor or somesuch, displaying exact heart location to you);
- heart is much smaller - and we talk many times smaller - than the head. At least, it should be. So the heart makes one extremely hard to hit target from any large distance, even if one would somehow be able to see where exactly that heart is.

1. Maybe you shouldn't make fun about a single typo, not everybody here is from english speaking countries... vielleicht solltest Du selbst ertmal eine Fremdsprache lernen.

The rest you wrote is just nonsense. First of all a deer won't die from any headshot, you specifically need to hit the brain which is approximately the same size as the heart. If you hit it anywhere else it will most likely survive the wound (or starve if you hit the jaw). Hunters kill deer like that all the time, in case of bad aiming you still have a good chance of killing the animal with a lung shot. But this is not a hunting simulator, if i want that i play TheHunter.

[Will]

Relatable is definitely a word.

[DiGiaComTech]

I think that that multiple places (e.g. Head & Heart) where you could get an insta kill is OK because this would better match reality. Anyone who is hunter known where the sweet spots are on the animals they hunt and additional/special colliders could be added to repreesnt those areas.

I would also ask that animals should bleed out and eventually die vs. the current system. I especially dislike it when you get a predator down to 10% and it's just as strong as when it was 100% as well as when it kills you it IMMEDIATELY heals and levels up! Now I could live with this in Solo but in Co-Op where we have hunting parties it is really not cool.

And yes Fins ... Relatable[www.dictionary.com] is a common english word.
Capable of being related » Able to Relate » Relate Able » Relateable ... ;)

[Fins]

Well, that word is not how i'd describe anyone's feeling about anything, if you know what i mean. But, whatever you say, english's not my native either, thus asked. If it is, then it is. I'll bite.

As for the deer's heart not being times smaller than deer's brain - yep, i was wrong, and i stand corrected[www.outdoorlife.com]. Geez 'em deers have one small brain, eh! Still, note i said "head" shot. Not "brain" shot. As visible on that same picture, the head is indeed times bigger target. And no you don't need to hit the brain directly, concussion is also a thing, i guess, and head bones are quite big, no?

Anyhow, true that it ain't no hunter simulator. I still prefer headshots, and since the OP was so much cathegorical about whole "this should be changed" deal, - i felt i am allowed to be also quite non-compomising about that "no it shouldn't be" of mine. But somehow, my way of saying what i prefer got people attacking it, while OP's - being exactly the same, - did not.

Well, i guess my humor was too english. Sigh. Sorry, gentlemen. :)

[Tryst49]

Sometimes I really believe that people want a 100% realistic simulator.
IT'S A GAME!

Not everyone is a master hunter with a weapon that is 100% accurate to the millimeter, so a headshot is presumed to have hit the brain and causes an instant kill in a game. I agree with @Lexor76, it's a game, not a simulator so let's have some artistic license here.

If you want realism:
Heart shots DO NOT instantly kill as some may suggest here. The brain does not die until it is starved of oxygen which happens a while after the heart stops. If that were not true, CPR wouldn't be possible, a dead brain would not keep the heart pumping after resuscitation. Until the brain is dead, the animal can still feel pain. If it comes to that, even a head shot is not a sure kill, people have still survived after being shot in the head. It takes a considerable amount of damage and in the right place, to make the brain stop working completely.

[Tanarial]

Fins: if you have ever usesd a bow or a rifle, you'd know that you fire for CENTRE MASS never the head. The head is too small a target. You always fire for centre mass. "Headbones"..thats called the skull and no you never fire for the head because the chances of missing are too high.

Centre mass is the largest and most opportune target.

Weapons discipline 101.

[Zuleica]

Head shot instant kill; yes...though in reality a deers brain is very small and a difficult target.
'Relatable' an English word; yes.

I hunt so yes a heart shot would be an instant kill but a heart/lung shot doesn't always put the deer down instantly and unless you have just the right angle and placement the bullet can ricochett off of rib or shoulder bone. However from this game's perspective I think it would be fairly difficult to create a bounding box for the heart, small enough to be relatable to RL hunting experience and not just result in accidental kills since our aiming capability isn't all that good. I'm fine if CG wants to try to get that to work but I don't think the results would be optimal.

A better shot would be the double shoulder shot but that bounding box would have to be carefully done so that an instant kill would only occur if the bullet passed high through both shoulders...even more difficult for CG and assumes our rifles have high velocity rounds.

Having animals bleed out would be nice but then we're getting into more of a hunting game. the Hunter, Call of the Wild I think does this very well but that might be a lot to ask from a game where hunting isn't the focus.

[Fins]

Originally posted by Tanarial:

Fins: if you have ever usesd a bow or a rifle, you'd know that you fire for CENTRE MASS never the head. The head is too small a target. You always fire for centre mass. "Headbones"..thats called the skull and no you never fire for the head because the chances of missing are too high.

Centre mass is the largest and most opportune target.

Weapons discipline 101.

Depends what kind of game you hunt. Certain two-legged creatures proudly calling themselves "♥♥♥♥ Sapiens", for example, - are often times better be shot right in the head. Especially when they are using bullet-proof vests, you know. :D

P.S. I never used any (good) real life bow, but rifle, sure. I hit a dime outta 50 yards - ~95% of the time (doing series of 20 shots is usually 0...2 misses per try). Without any optics, but only in controlled environment and using diopter sights, of course. So for me, heads IRL are not too small a target, i'm trained for this kinda thing. So it's very YMMV, you see. Just saying it's possible, - not saying it's the best way or required way. But definitely possible. And here in Subsistence, headshots is definitely _the_ way to go whenever you're fighting hunters while using any weapon except possibly (depends on distance) the shotgun.

[Original-Pauper]

Originally posted by Fins:

Originally posted by Tanarial:

Fins: if you have ever usesd a bow or a rifle, you'd know that you fire for CENTRE MASS never the head. The head is too small a target. You always fire for centre mass. "Headbones"..thats called the skull and no you never fire for the head because the chances of missing are too high.

Centre mass is the largest and most opportune target.

Weapons discipline 101.

Depends what kind of game you hunt. Certain two-legged creatures proudly calling themselves "♥♥♥♥ Sapiens", for example, - are often times better be shot right in the head. Especially when they are using bullet-proof vests, you know. :D

P.S. I never used any (good) real life bow, but rifle, sure. I hit a dime outta 50 yards - ~95% of the time (doing series of 20 shots is usually 0...2 misses per try). Without any optics, but only in controlled environment and using diopter sights, of course. So for me, heads IRL are not too small a target, i'm trained for this kinda thing. So it's very YMMV, you see. Just saying it's possible, - not saying it's the best way or required way. But definitely possible. And here in Subsistence, headshots is definitely _the_ way to go whenever you're fighting hunters while using any weapon except possibly (depends on distance) the shotgun.

Stop piling on Fins, please. He admitted his original reply was incorrect. Fins, just know that a broadhead does an extreme amount of damage to some very soft tissue in the lung and heart areas in real life. Hunting that way is incredible because of how close you are to the animal at the time of the shot. Don't let the avalanche of criticism in this thread get you down either.

@Zuleica, wells said. For the game, and CG's sanity having a headshot for the hit-box is fine.

Again, the update just came out, let's get a better sample size and then start making suggestions for the game.

[dominuskevin]

Shoot'em straight up the rear with the rifle upgraded 3 times and they drop like a rock.

[Zuleica]

Originally posted by Fins:

"Relatable"? That a word? =)

And no, it should not be changed the way you propose, because:
- it would be extremely strange if one can kill a deer with a single shot to the heart, but unable to instakill it with a headshot;
- the head is a clear, visible target - but the heart is not (well, not unless you'd have some X-ray sci-fi targeting visor or somesuch, displaying exact heart location to you);
- heart is much smaller - and we talk many times smaller - than the head. At least, it should be. So the heart makes one extremely hard to hit target from any large distance, even if one would somehow be able to see where exactly that heart is.

Fins a deers brain is really small and you have to be very precise. The entire head isn't a kill zone, only a very small part of it is. The heart/lungs are far more reliable. But for the game's sake it just makes sense to have the entire head a hitbox. If the current hitbox was scaled down to the size of the deers brain it would be pure dumb luck to ever hit it.

If the game was setup as a real hunting simulator like the Hunter Call of the Wild then you'd see accurate internal hit boxes for the type of game and if you aim at the right external point you'll get a heart shot, liver shot or other. The nice thing about that game is that it gives you a slow motion internal view of your projectile hitting so you can see exactly what you did to it.