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You’re using raw meat values, why would you waste potential nutrition by not cooking it. I posted these cooked values August of last year:
Cooked low grade (lvl 0) chicken: Protein +18, Fruit/Veg +2, Hunger +14
Cooked steak: Protein +29, Fruit/Veg +3, Hunger +24
Cooked high grade (lvl 10) chicken: Protein +31, Fruit/Veg +4, Hunger +27
Cooked liver: Protein: Protein +34, Fruit/Veg +4, Hunger +31
If they’ve changed then they’ve changed as I haven’t measured them since. But, at least in August of last year the values didn’t scale proportionally with cooking. However if you take into account the mats and time spent producing lvl 10 chickens it’s far more efficient to kill predators...and faster. Eggs are nice and all but in the same day it takes to get an egg I can use one non-upgraded-shotgun round on a predator, cook the meat, and be better off.
I’ll ignore the ad hominem arguments as an expression of your anger.
Fins,
In the game the glow stick is a useless item, not necessary, and lasts forever. Glow sticks in reality are one use, and can last anywhere from 1 to 12 hours... Some types the military use can last 24 hours. Would make more sense to be forced to craft it after one use.
Not having a knife makes no sense at all, given the number of item slots available, and by the way, depending on the knife type, you can in fact chop wood with them. This is not RL though remember? Your friend Zuleica is fond of pointing it out.
I'd also like to understand the mechanics and logistics of filleting a fish or dressing out an animal with a hatchet. That would be interesting. Perhaps you could demonstrate that?
Reading the comments from the guys who dissent the most (all like three of you) it strikes me, either my posts are completely unclear, or you guys simply don't pay attention and are the least observant people on earth.
Regarding the planter boxes. I initially had two of them on a stand alone foundation platform away from my cabin but within the radius allowed to build. No walls, no overhead cover. They never received 100% light until I added growlights. Regardless of time of day. The max amount of light received was 40% light throughout the painfully slow growth cycle.
This is also true of the solar panels.... Screen shots are provided on my public Steam page that show them, unobstructed, on top of my cabin, with the stats open. 50% light clearly shown. You will not they are installed ON THE ROOF. This was the best location after much moving and experimenting.
Another side note about the planter boxes. The water and fertilizer will decrease in them even when no seeds are planted. I am working on a video capture or screen shot of this. Clearly you fellas don't spend enough time actually observing the function of the game.
I am working on the same for the animal housing to show how the water level decreases when food is added. Since clearly I must be lying and mistaken, even though my screen shots thus far show me to be correct.
I am going to post a screen shot of a stairway and doorway just for you, to demonstrate how they do not align properly, as it is apparent that you are clueless and do not pay attention or do not understand the point being made. Stairs in game are 90 degree, designed for a corner installation, and are narrower than a 1X block... In fact they are 1/4 block width. A doorway is 1X with the opening centered.
As to your addressing of item number 10 on my initial post. So basically screw any casual players or players who are in the creative "builder" mode of the game. No solar panels for you unless you opt to deal with hunters and loot the panels. What a ridiculous comment. A game designed to craft items, and game with coop built in, and youre contention is that it is fine "because solar panels can be looted." By the way, which as you know is also random. You may or MAY NOT get them. Just as you may or may not get sinews in the green locked boxes, or when you actually kill a mountain lion you may get 4, or you may get 6. Or other animals which may give you steak, liver, multiples of either, skin, or none. The generator powers items over 500 BCU as well. However the generator also supplies a stupidly LOW amount.
As to your addressing of item 13. Once again, you misunderstand the issue, and blame the player. The speed at which the crop plants grow is directly related and proportional to the amount of water and fertilizer (and light) supplied to them. If you want them to grow fast enough to feed your chickens and rabbits, so they continue to grow and increase in level, you must stay and tend them, or be content to let them SLOWLY grow, or not gain increases in level for the animals. Do you guys ACTUALLY test anything? Your chickens and rabbits in free range mode only increase in level (get fat as you say) when you feed and water them, otherwise they remain static, or increase extremely slowly. You will notice a "red" bar just above the "green" bar. Both filling to full increase a level. The red bar completes several times for each increase in the green bar till it is full. You may also notice that adding wounded animals to the housing seems to use more food and water until they heal. (which is a neat feature as far as Im concerned)
You do know that the game is built on the "Unreal" engine yes? The physics and such for water and terrain are already "figured out". It's a matter of scripting the objects and components of the game properly to account for interactions. For instance, the animals in game aren't using the same script or coding that applies to the players avatar in game. Like when you chase a chicken and it runs away from you into the lake or a pond. Point is, there is a script for behavior already available, it's being applied to the player's avatar RIGHT NOW. Which is why you must swim, you can drown, you cant run on the bottom of the lake, and you take a movent penalty in water etc.
15 and 16 respectively. You contradict yourself. In 15 you argue for MORE realism and in 16 you argue against it. Is that because of bias related to losing a carcass after being killed trying to harvest an animal like a bear or a mountain lion? Consistency is what I am seeking. If the despawn timer is five minutes, then it should be five minutes. Bears and wolves will certainly stand over your item box if you fail to kill them, they don't return to their original position. Conversely, the mountain lion isnt a worry in this regard, as it realistically drags your body off after it does you in. The way to balance firearms and ammo against higher damage against animal prey is to make it more scare or harder to craft, not make the animal a cyborg terminator with 5 livers. Conversely, why is your player avatar not as damage resistant as the hunters? Why do the bears and wolves not attack them? Have you watched the hunters from a distance? They walk around, crouch, sneak and peek, and occassionally take shots ostensibly at bears and wolves. Sometimes while standing right beside bears and wolves. The scripts and AI to fix this already exist in game as well. They are once again applied to the player.
I agree with your premise that feces is the better fertilizer. Again you miss the point. It is consumed much more quickly then is ash when used in the planter. It should be reversed. Plants should grow more quickly, or you should need to fertilize less often if using feces than if using ash. That should be the trade off for taking the time to invest in the animal housing and feces tray. More realistically, and better game balance I would think would be to need to fill the planter say twice per grow cycle with feces fertilizer (three if no grow light) and maybe 4 times in using straight ash, (five if no grow light) for instance.
Use only feces in one box and use ash in another. Note the difference.
Endless and already addressed the sunlight issue. However, it strikes me there is another inconsistency not addressed in the game. At night it gets below freezing, which doesn't affect grow beds placed out doors.
For now I will continue to take and post screenshots to illustrate my points whenever I can, because people that comment to others on the internet are all the same. Incapable of objectivity and base everything solely on their own personal user experience, not from the perspective of a game that is intended to be profitable and marketed across more than just a small niche audience. (Otherwise the game wouldnt have the option to turn of hunters or play in easy mode)
Let's "assume" your data is correct. You are still not seeing the big picture here. What resources are required to produce a high grade chicken or rabbit?
(1) Craft animal housing.
(2) Capture the rabbits (need to shoot them) and chickens (can be chased down).
(3) Then you need to house them, and provide them with resources to stay alive.
(4) Upgrade your housing to free range to make it more efficient.
(5) Continue to toss resources in to keep the animals alive.
(6) After days and days and days you finally get high grade meat (plus other stuff).
Now let's look at what resources are needed to produce a liver?
(1) Find a wolf.
(2) Shoot the wolf and harvest.
(3) Done.
In one game day I can gather up 12-16 livers or steaks with minimal effort and very few resources. Compare that with how much time and resources it would take to produce just half the same number of high grade chickens or rabbits. See my point? You're only looking at the end result, and ignoring what it takes to get that result.
He’s also ignoring that cooked liver is still the best unless the values I originally poste last August have changed.
Yep. Also he is ignoring one of the criticisms he made of the game in his original post:
"10. The solar power output, even when fully upgraded (and running multiple panels) is not worth the resources it costs to build them."
Change the wording a bit, and we have...
"10. The nutritional value of rabbits and chickens, even when fully upgraded (and housing multiple animals) is not worth the resources it costs to make them."
I've been playing Subsistence for over a year and have clocked in well over 1,700 hours, and I have never built animal housing because the resources to level up animals is simply not worth while for my style of game play.
This
I have almost no experience with firearms in games and I am new to this game to boot but I have taken down a low level wolf with the shotgun in ONE SHOT. It only happened once because as I said I don't have the practice in to be good at it but that is a player problem not a game problem. I can typically kill a low wolf in 2-3 shots. Every once in awhile it all goes south and even putting all 5 rounds into the beast doesn't kill it and it gets me. I am still trying to master shoot and run kiting.
Ummm... which game have you been playing? Even when I just started playing Subsistence, I could take down a level-1 wolf or bear with just one shotgun round.
And if you back up crouched while firing you can get off two rounds, been doing it for over a year.
Wow, really? I don't know what you could be doing differently than I am for you to be getting tagged like that. Maybe allowing them too close before running away? I usually have no issues outrunning anything at all... uphill, downhill, flat land, or otherwise. Are you bobbing and weaving? Did you try to duck and cover? xD
No... I wouldn't recommend hunting anything at night. I spend nights chopping wood near my base. If I see anything with a level next to its health bar, I shriek like a little girl and run and hide.
"Let's assume"?? I posted the screen shots of the numbers from IN GAME you tool.
1. Find a wolf
2. Shoot at the wolf using a an arrow (Each wolf requires 2 t o4 arrows depending on level if using standard arrows) which requires resources and you dont get back.
3. Dont miss
4. Dont get killed
5. Harvest wolf get liver(s) maybe cloth, or maybe steak no liver, no cloth 1 to 4 fat.
6. Harvest wood for more arrows
7. Find or craft nails for more arrows.
8. Catch or shoot wild chickens for feathers to craft arrows.
9. Find water for yourself and boil it to rehydrate after consuming the livers
10. Repeat
Or
1. Grow tomatoes
2. Catch say, two chickens and feed and water them
3. Harvest at level 10 and receive 5 standard feathers, 7 premium feathers, 6 fat, and two High quality meat. Every single time for each level 10 chicken butchered.
4. harvest some wood and make sticks
5. find nails
6. Make 10 arrows
7. Eat some tomatoes yourself
See how that works?
We'll skip that you left out the whole cooking necessity for best results, which requires wood, and a stove, or that if you harvest in large quantities, you use more arrows requiring more resources and also a refridgerator or all those precious livers spoil.
Do you people contemplate what you say before you say it?
By the way, it doesnt take days and days if you keep them fed and watered, and the more you have the more fertilizer you have, which mean more tomatoes which means easy feeding and eating... all that is required is a water source... So if you build next to a pond, lake or stream that solves that. Granted it takes time, a couple of days, but with tomatoes growing and stock piled there is no searching for resources required.
Harvest 8 raised chickens once and you've netted 16 high quality meat, 40 feathers, 56 premium feathers, and 48 fat which will render enough oil to power the generator and make medical supplies for days.
Care to work that scenario and math out again?
I think what I see in the conflicts you mention is the difference between the perspective of many new players and people who have been playing for quite some time.
The thing that frustrates a new player to the point of quitting may well be the challenge that keeps veteran players playing for years. It is a tough balancing act for a game dev. He needs BOTH types of players.
That said this game is in alpha and we as players must be midfull of that. I suspect the real balancing will happen towards the end of development.
Indeed, this is why I generally refrain from posting altogether in any of these boards. I also notice that none of the turds commenting are devs or work for developer. They don't understand apparently, that regardless of how much they like it or how well it suits them individually, if the game doesn't sell enough copies to cover development costs it is a failure.
Your final sentence says it all. All you tools posting are posting from your specific perspective and style of gameplay, not from the objective point of view of creating a game that can be marketed, sold and played by a wide audience with equal enjoyment.
Also, I completely wrecked your argument with logic in that the number of resources recovered off of 8 (eight) say it with me "ATE" raised chickens alone, more than compensates for the resources required to accomplish the task, particularly since once it is accomplished, future iterations only require the act of catching and maintaining the chickens and grow beds (which both work to support the other)
We haven't even covered the benefits of rabbits, which also produce a reliable amount at level 10 of 3 skins, two meat and 6 fat each.
Whereas your apples to oranges comparison regarding my comments on the solar panels makes no sense. You need power and mass to craft the panels, the animal housing, and most ever other thing requiring the workbench.
The power input from fully upgraded solar panels is lacking, compared to the output needed for crafting, maintaining power on grow lights, and a refridgerator. Particularly if you dont build a bunch of power and mass storage. Particularly if you run the forge and refine ore.
Your math is wrong and your logic is non-existent.
Another math error there professor. A non upgraded shotgun does 85 damage IF at the precise range required for maximum effect. As your math challenged partners pointed out earlier, Wolves range from 95 to 105 (or above if they've killed you) So unless the wolf is at 85 when shot, he will be left with 10 points to chew you to death, (if at 95, more if higher) and if you survive long enough to rack the shotgun and fire again, it still takes two shots. If you shoot the wolf with an arrow before hand, then one shotgun shot does the trick.
We call that math, you should look into it.