A review of difficulty level and AI Realistic pitstops

[Racer D]

I started a new career with the following settings:

- CYOT with Root investment in ERS
- Difficulty slider in middle
- realistic AI
- randomized names (by editing asset)

The randomized names edit is something truly refreshing. Scouting is more fun and the game less predictable.

With the realistic AI pitstops there is no more heroes when it is wet. The AI will put intermediates for 2 laps if it has to in a crossover from slicks to full wet, and it works out. It is hard to do something exceptional as a player, difficult to best the AI in this area.

For 3 seasons in a row I had absolutely the worst car even though I developed all I could. Only near the end I got to 9th in Topspeed and Braking.
It is a tough tough fight to finish P9 in the team standings.

Near the end of the 3rd season, with an upgraded factory and reliabilitu 100% on all parts, I weightstripped performance level with about 350, keeping most car parts on the limit of red zone at the end of a race. With that I make now decent (though certainly no winning) laptimes to finish midfield.

Some races were very boring because I finished 2 laps down - some were extremely rewarding because I achieved P16 and thus a sponsor goal. Or have 1 car finish ahead of the 2 ZRT cars (who seem to have a claim om P9 and are the first team to beat on the way up).

Previously in MM with say, Predator, I was fighting for race wins already.
So, definitely need more patience now but it is an interesting experience so far.

[Inardesco]

The main reason that prevents me from using the undercut against the AI, or overtaking the AI when they're in the pits, is being stuck behind a slower car. Not because they had a super fast pitstop, which is something that can happen based on mechanics.

Do keep in mind that there are many factors that influence pitstop time;
* Pit lane length
* Pit lane speed (60kph - 100kph)
* Actions undertaken during pitstop
* Mechanic's pitstop stat
* Mechanic's concentration (mistakes)
* Mechanic's skills that reduce pitstops (overal pitstop time - tyre change - fix parts)

[Tig_green]

Many forget that if time in pitlane is ~20 secs it doesn't mean that you will catch the driver in front with ~20 secs because cars only stop for few seconds usually. The rest of the time cars in pits move and pitlane might take a big shortcut.

[Roberto]

Just started a season with Silva Racing (4th best team when starting Europeean Series), didn't switch anything regarding pilots, mechanics and lead designer.

Realistic mode and AI slider is on top level. Very challenging! I've set myself an objective of finishing 4th in constructor's at the end of the season, but I doubt it I can make it.

The first race was great, finished 2nd and 4th, then problems struck: the reverse rule grid in Europeean Series means I had to start from last 2 rows and the 2nd race I've had a 12th best finish result because of that, unable to make some overtakes...3rd race much better but still a 9th place result the best result out of my 2 drivers, the 4th race 10th best result.

Dropped in constructor's standings from 1st place after Round 1 to 5th place, 10 points behind 4th place, after round 4.

In the driver standings, they seem to pack together as the result of the reverse grid rule, now I'm currently 9th and 11th with my drivers there meaning the start of the races would be in the 5th and 6th row now.

I definitely like this challenge, it's much better knowing you actually have to fight for places not just cruising around knowing you can win even if you have almost the slowest car in the field.

A big thumbs up for that!

[jon157uk]

Publicado originalmente por Brian:

I mean, we have a thing that shows the pit stop lengths now, look at that.

There was no safety car or any other issuses that were obvious, I'm racing F3 so obviously they don't take on fuel, just new tyres, but even driving through the pits at pit lane speed limit is going to lose you more than 12 seconds so no matter how you look at it my car should have passed the other two without too much of a problem... And in my expeirence if you closely watch the pits on mini map there are always some cars that are in and out of the pits far faster than would ever be possible, some of them don't hardly appear to stop and they're heading straight back out again. This could be and should be an interesting game but for me so far pit stops are breaking it, it's also very annoying that my machanics always make far more mistakes than any other in the game. When I had low skill guys I expected it but now I have slightly above average machanics but they still make plenty of mistakes, and guess what ? They always seem to do it when my cars are running well, I'm starting to get the idea that the pit stop is randomly being used by the game to throw yet another challenge at you, if that is the case it doesn't work, it just makes the game very frustrating and predictable.

[Ohayoghurt]

I guess you were racing at Doha then, which has always had a very short pit-lane that lets you cut out the first corner on exit.

[Fritz]

Publicado originalmente por Tig_green:

Many forget that if time in pitlane is ~20 secs it doesn't mean that you will catch the driver in front with ~20 secs because cars only stop for few seconds usually. The rest of the time cars in pits move and pitlane might take a big shortcut.

You make a very good point I had forgotten to mention (one of those things you know intuitively but never vocalize). Just because the game database says time spent in pit=25s doesn't mean that car literally lost 25s and now every car that were behind it by a smaller delta will overtake it. It might've only stopped moving for 3-8 of those secs, which is time that translate directly to delta actually lost. The remaining time is spent moving, albeit slowly, so the delta lost there isn't a 1:1. To figure out how much time is ultimately lost, one must compare the pit lane length and speed limit vs the portion of the track it cuts out. For some tracks, like Doha and Singapore, it's a sizeable shortcut. With a fast pit lane speed limit, that gets reduced even further.

If there's no refueling, the stationary portion (with no mistakes) only lasts ~3s iirc. That would leave 9s extra for them to drive through the pit lane. So if it takes 13s to drive the equivalent pit entrance to pit exit distance on the track, they'd have <22s (13+9=22) to traverse the length of the pit lane. In this rough example, that means a car with a 25s pit stop would still emerge ahead of cars that were previously 12+s behind. I honestly think that's our solution, there may be other factors but the general misconception of how much time you think they've lost explains a lot of the issue here.

If you still believe the ai stops (the stationary portion of the pit stop) are shorter than they should be and are cheating, look through the data. The game has displays that show those details for every team, it would be a simple matter to double check and post a picture if the ai really is cheating so the devs can address it.

[Brian]

Publicado originalmente por jon157uk:

Publicado originalmente por Brian:

I mean, we have a thing that shows the pit stop lengths now, look at that.

There was no safety car or any other issuses that were obvious, I'm racing F3 so obviously they don't take on fuel, just new tyres, but even driving through the pits at pit lane speed limit is going to lose you more than 12 seconds so no matter how you look at it my car should have passed the other two without too much of a problem... And in my expeirence if you closely watch the pits on mini map there are always some cars that are in and out of the pits far faster than would ever be possible, some of them don't hardly appear to stop and they're heading straight back out again. This could be and should be an interesting game but for me so far pit stops are breaking it, it's also very annoying that my machanics always make far more mistakes than any other in the game. When I had low skill guys I expected it but now I have slightly above average machanics but they still make plenty of mistakes, and guess what ? They always seem to do it when my cars are running well, I'm starting to get the idea that the pit stop is randomly being used by the game to throw yet another challenge at you, if that is the case it doesn't work, it just makes the game very frustrating and predictable.

I don't care for this wall of anecdotal text. I've got over 500 hours in this and not once have I thought the AI cheat at any point, and I micromanage my races to the point where if the AI were cheating I would have noticed. I've performed under and over cuts enough times. I've been able to get the worst drivers in the game into slightly higher positions than they should be through pit strategy in 1.41.

We now have the data for pitstop times available, so look at that rather than posting "well, this one time it looked like it on track so that must be the case...". I've been checking them now and then, and I'm usually near the top for fastest stops. I would have the fastest stops regularly if I used fast instead of balanced. Use the data, analyse it before claiming something. The AI are very clever in their strategy now, and will do things like overfuel on the opening stint to allow them to take less time refuelling at the first stops.

[jon157uk]

Publicado originalmente por Brian:

Publicado originalmente por jon157uk:

There was no safety car or any other issuses that were obvious, I'm racing F3 so obviously they don't take on fuel, just new tyres, but even driving through the pits at pit lane speed limit is going to lose you more than 12 seconds so no matter how you look at it my car should have passed the other two without too much of a problem... And in my expeirence if you closely watch the pits on mini map there are always some cars that are in and out of the pits far faster than would ever be possible, some of them don't hardly appear to stop and they're heading straight back out again. This could be and should be an interesting game but for me so far pit stops are breaking it, it's also very annoying that my machanics always make far more mistakes than any other in the game. When I had low skill guys I expected it but now I have slightly above average machanics but they still make plenty of mistakes, and guess what ? They always seem to do it when my cars are running well, I'm starting to get the idea that the pit stop is randomly being used by the game to throw yet another challenge at you, if that is the case it doesn't work, it just makes the game very frustrating and predictable.

I don't care for this wall of anecdotal text. I've got over 500 hours in this and not once have I thought the AI cheat at any point, and I micromanage my races to the point where if the AI were cheating I would have noticed. I've performed under and over cuts enough times. I've been able to get the worst drivers in the game into slightly higher positions than they should be through pit strategy in 1.41.

We now have the data for pitstop times available, so look at that rather than posting "well, this one time it looked like it on track so that must be the case...". I've been checking them now and then, and I'm usually near the top for fastest stops. I would have the fastest stops regularly if I used fast instead of balanced. Use the data, analyse it before claiming something. The AI are very clever in their strategy now, and will do things like overfuel on the opening stint to allow them to take less time refuelling at the first stops.

Brian, do you really think I give two f*cks what 'you care for', if you have nothing better to do in your life than 'micromanage' a bloody PC game you're not even the type of person I have time for. I'm telling you this game is flawed, if that shatters your delusion of being Ross Brawn I'm sorry to spoil your life.

[Tig_green]

Publicado originalmente por jon157uk:

Publicado originalmente por Brian:

I don't care for this wall of anecdotal text. I've got over 500 hours in this and not once have I thought the AI cheat at any point, and I micromanage my races to the point where if the AI were cheating I would have noticed. I've performed under and over cuts enough times. I've been able to get the worst drivers in the game into slightly higher positions than they should be through pit strategy in 1.41.

We now have the data for pitstop times available, so look at that rather than posting "well, this one time it looked like it on track so that must be the case...". I've been checking them now and then, and I'm usually near the top for fastest stops. I would have the fastest stops regularly if I used fast instead of balanced. Use the data, analyse it before claiming something. The AI are very clever in their strategy now, and will do things like overfuel on the opening stint to allow them to take less time refuelling at the first stops.

Brian, do you really think I give two f*cks what 'you care for', if you have nothing better to do in your life than 'micromanage' a bloody PC game you're not even the type of person I have time for. I'm telling you this game is flawed, if that shatters your delusion of being Ross Brawn I'm sorry to spoil your life.

You clearly don't know yet who Brian is. If he says it's not flawed based on his extensive observation then I trust him. Why don't you read all the answers you have got here and be enlightened.

[jon157uk]

Publicado originalmente por Tig_green:

Publicado originalmente por jon157uk:

Brian, do you really think I give two f*cks what 'you care for', if you have nothing better to do in your life than 'micromanage' a bloody PC game you're not even the type of person I have time for. I'm telling you this game is flawed, if that shatters your delusion of being Ross Brawn I'm sorry to spoil your life.

You clearly don't know yet who Brian is. If he says it's not flawed based on his extensive observation then I trust him. Why don't you read all the answers you have got here and be enlightened.

I clearly couldn't give a rat's ass who Brian is, if this game is so perfect why have so many people created mods to make it work better? Why have so many people enlisted the aid of cheat engines to give limitless money ? Why do the devs keep on trying to fix things if nothing is broken ? I've read all the answers and none of them really are answers...... If any of you believe for one second that a car running through a pit lane at limited speed and stopping for however long isn't going to get caught by a car 12 seconds behind it travelling at least twice the speed it would appear to me that it is you guys that don't understand. Pit lane entry, stop, pit lane exit.... what would we say for that ? 26 seconds or so ? How does a car travelling at 160mph only 12 seconds behind you not catch up ?

[Ohayoghurt]

What part of "Doha has a very short pit-lane" do you not understand?

[jon157uk]

Publicado originalmente por JayOTT:

What part of "Doha has a very short pit-lane" do you not understand?

IT WASN'T at fu**ing Doha !!!! What part of that don't you understand ?

[Inardesco]

Publicado originalmente por jon157uk:

Publicado originalmente por JayOTT:

What part of "Doha has a very short pit-lane" do you not understand?

IT WASN'T at fu**ing Doha !!!! What part of that don't you understand ?

The part where you lack the proper skills to play this game without getting upset over the AI getting the better of you?

[jon157uk]

Publicado originalmente por Inardesco:

Publicado originalmente por jon157uk:

IT WASN'T at fu**ing Doha !!!! What part of that don't you understand ?

The part where you lack the proper skills to play this game without getting upset over the AI getting the better of you?

UPSET ?... LMFAO, I came in here and posted up my expeirence in the game and suggested that pit stops still are not working correctly, the rest of the f**king argument was created by you fan boys. It's a game dude ! Just a PC game, you may sit crying over them, I most certainly don't. I'm impressed that you are so skilled in life you can play games, maybe you should phone Blue Peter, you may get a badge for it.... Anyhow, you fan boys have done your game justice, I can't be arsed with it so I'll delete it and leave you to enjoy it yourselves.

[Fritz]

That escalated quickly.... Why don't we look at a timeline of events.

You made a claim: ai cheats and has pit stops that are faster than normal.
Your evidence: vague anecdotal testimony, no pics or videos, doesn't even seem like you double checked the data screen which explicitly shows all the pit stop timers for every team.
Our initial assessment: maybe you're misunderstanding something, give us more details to better understand the situation.
Our evidence: our collective experience (some like Brian actually tinker with data files and game code and know a thing or 2) and your lack of specifics are suggestive you might be mistaken.
You get salty: I know I'm right, the game is buggy, you're wrong I didn't misunderstand anything, reeeeee.
Our claim: Tig explains how you're probably/might be misinterpreting data, I agree with him and go into detail how (e.g.) 25s in the pit lane=/=25s lost on track, it's more like half of that.
Our evidence: go check the data files and confirm the ai pit stops (entry, stationary, and exit) have relatively the same duration as yours (the player).
You: reeeeee!!1!!1! I know what I'm talking about, the game is ♥♥♥♥ and you know nothing.
Me:??? Bro, were trying to help you out, potentially clear out some misunderstandings, and enjoy a game you payed for. Why get mad at us?