AI not pitting for intermediate tires

[M4rt1n93]

First off I have to say this game is great, but one thing is ruining it for me and make the game so easy. Every time race start dry, then have a short period of rain, like just rain for 3-4laps but is wet longer ofc. Then all AI cars dont pit, and pit takes only like 3-6sec and on slicks on wet track they lose like 10sec a lap but still they decide to not pit and instead crawl arround for 5-10laps on slick tires on wet track...

And sometimes they do pit, but not before multiple laps after it started to rain so they still lose alot of time

[Twelvefield]

Do you have the advanced weather station? If you do, you "see" more than tha AI will, since I believe they are stuck using the basic weather station.

AI pitting in the rain does seem to confuse the AI, though. Hopefully this will be improved in the future.

[M4rt1n93]

I have upgraded telemetry center yes, but AI does that them self. Since the team had allready upgraded that when I took over this team.

And also that does not matter, since when they notice rain forecast don't matter. Since they do still pit several laps after it has STARTED to rain. So if they don't notice rain while it's raining then they need more then upgraded telemetry center...

[Stravy]

It always happens the AI have no brains in this game. It took 4 months to fix the blue flag issue (and that was game breaking to the point where it was unplayable) so i wouldnt hold your breath for a fix from them they will probably put in a couple of fixes in when they are ready to put more paid dlc out.

[Inardesco]

What is your fuel rule?

Under 40% rule the AI also calculates refueling into the pitstops, thus if rain comes, they won't always change to the right tire.
Under 80% fuel rule they only have to refuel once, so they're more likely to select the right tire if that fits into their pitwindow
With no refueling, they will change to the right tire, at the right time. If they notice that they've pitted to early, they will come back into the pits to put on the right tire.

[Tig_green]

40% fuel rule is quite annoying imo because it limits tyre tactics a lot :p (on dry conditions)

I've been playing mostly in WMC with no refueling rule. In changing weather conditions AI doesn't always make optimal tyre choices at least when there is a short period of dry/wet/damp conditions. Usually they remain fairly competitive (sometimes because I might make some mistakes too, it ain't easy you know :p). Don't know how it works exactly atm, but would be great if they would pit once they realize they are on wrong tyre (calculating time loss to drivers with other tyre and also considering their tactics and the predicted lenght of current weather condition to find optimal tyre at each moment... surely pitting takes time but if they lose 10 secs per lap then it only takes two laps to lose the same as in the pits)

[Inardesco]

You also have to calculate pitlane time, is it a 60kp/h or a 100kp/h pitlane. If it's a 100kp/h pitlane and there's for instance soaking wet track for the last 5 laps, then yeah, I'ma jump into the pits for new tires because I will only lose about 10-15 seconds in the pitstop.

If however, the pitlane is 60kp/h I will lose about 20-30 seconds in the pitlane, which is far to much to recover even on the right tire against for instance intermediate tires. I'd rather stay out, have the same disadvantage as those around me, then try to make up the odd 30 seconds and end up in the same place. The only reason I might pit under those circumstances is if I know I have a free pitstop or know that I'll end up right behind the guy behind me, if I'm in first that is. Otherwise you'd only lose time to the one in front.

So there's not just 1 reason why the AI decides to stay on older/wrong tire. If I can see that rain is going to fall shortly after my pitwindow, I'll tell my drivers to extend their stint, even if it means hitting the drop off point, or if I can't make that, to pit onto the inters and then drive on conserve till rain falls. This is especially something that is appearant with 40% refuel, simply because you don't always have the fuel to make it, even if the tire life is there.

[M4rt1n93]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

What is your fuel rule?

Under 40% rule the AI also calculates refueling into the pitstops, thus if rain comes, they won't always change to the right tire.
Under 80% fuel rule they only have to refuel once, so they're more likely to select the right tire if that fits into their pitwindow
With no refueling, they will change to the right tire, at the right time. If they notice that they've pitted to early, they will come back into the pits to put on the right tire.

It's no refueling rules. And I don't really know about pitlane speed limit, but what I know is that I have many 1-2 wins this season only because AI stays out on dry tires for a long time on wet track. When the track is soacked, then they pit for wet tires, but when it's wet for multiple laps then they don't pit for intermediate

[Tig_green]

Originally posted by M4rt1n93:

Originally posted by Inardesco:

What is your fuel rule?

Under 40% rule the AI also calculates refueling into the pitstops, thus if rain comes, they won't always change to the right tire.
Under 80% fuel rule they only have to refuel once, so they're more likely to select the right tire if that fits into their pitwindow
With no refueling, they will change to the right tire, at the right time. If they notice that they've pitted to early, they will come back into the pits to put on the right tire.

It's no refueling rules. And I don't really know about pitlane speed limit, but what I know is that I have many 1-2 wins this season only because AI stays out on dry tires for a long time on wet track. When the track is soacked, then they pit for wet tires, but when it's wet for multiple laps then they don't pit for intermediate

I never pause the game so sometimes I make bad decision myself too. If you pause then I can imagine you can do better than AI but I don't pause because I try to imagine how it is in real life, not in game world.

That been said, AI tactics are far from perfect but most of the time they make some sense even in changing conditions. I'm sure this will be further improved.

[M4rt1n93]

Originally posted by Tig_green:

Originally posted by M4rt1n93:

It's no refueling rules. And I don't really know about pitlane speed limit, but what I know is that I have many 1-2 wins this season only because AI stays out on dry tires for a long time on wet track. When the track is soacked, then they pit for wet tires, but when it's wet for multiple laps then they don't pit for intermediate

I never pause the game so sometimes I make bad decision myself too. If you pause then I can imagine you can do better than AI but I don't pause because I try to imagine how it is in real life, not in game world.

Sure, pause can make it easyer. But I still don't drive on wet track with slick tires for 5-10 laps because I don't pause, it's not that fast without pause...

[Inardesco]

Originally posted by M4rt1n93:

It's no refueling rules.

With this you mean that the problem isn't the refueling or that there is no refueling in the race?

Because in a season I've had no refueling allowed, I've consistently seen the AI pitting at the right time, some drivers did pit alot earlier, mainly due to tire wear, but they would always make the switch back to right tire 1-2 lap later.

If I know the track will be soaked in 5 laps of rain (from a dry track), then is it really worth pitting for inters and then 5 laps later pitting for wets? Not really unless it's a long track like Sydney or the long Vancouver where I know that I can make up the time due to track length, otherwise, it's useless. Why 2 pitstops if I can have 1?

[Tig_green]

IRL you would of course pit because otherwise you would crash but in this game wet conditions doesn't seem to affect the risk of crashing out (I hope this changes soon).

[M4rt1n93]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Originally posted by M4rt1n93:

It's no refueling rules.

With this you mean that the problem isn't the refueling or that there is no refueling in the race?

Because in a season I've had no refueling allowed, I've consistently seen the AI pitting at the right time, some drivers did pit alot earlier, mainly due to tire wear, but they would always make the switch back to right tire 1-2 lap later.

If I know the track will be soaked in 5 laps of rain, then is it really worth pitting for inters and then 5 laps later pitting for wets? Not really unless it's a long track like Sydney or the long Vancouver where I know that I can make up the time due to track length, otherwise, it's useless. Why 2 pitstops if I can have 1?

Im not really talking about that, im mainly talking about races that is mainly dry but have a short shower with rain. So only rain for 2-5 laps so no need for wets but is need for inters, but you still lose alot of time in F1 on wrong tires since use slick tires. Like I was 5th and 6th with my drivers one race, then it started to rain for 4laps so I pitted for intermediate and when track was dry again I was 1st and 2nd with 30sec to 3rd place and all other AI just crawled arround with slick tires on wet track, even if just for short period of rain they lost so much time that there is NO sense or reason to stay on slicks

And with no refueling I mean there is no refueling in race yes. Was refueling last season but then voted for no refueling rules. So I don't know if this is a general AI problem or if they just struggle to adapt to no refueling rules...

[Tig_green]

Why do you describe they were still crawling if it was already dry?

I would like that there would be more mystery to upcoming weather conditions or that the evaluation would at least be in minutes, not in laps. Maybe AI can't predict the weather as human players do...

[M4rt1n93]

Originally posted by Tig_green:

Why do you describe they were still crawling if it was already dry?

I would like that there would be more mystery to upcoming weather conditions or that the evaluation would at least be in minutes, not in laps. Maybe AI can't predict the weather as human players do...

Because I ment while it was wet they crawled arround and that is why I could make one extra stop for inters and still be 30sec ahead of them after the short rain period, so I gained more then 30sec since I was behind before rain started.

[M4rt1n93]

Like this race: http://i.imgur.com/H7mxmIF.jpg

Sure it dont rain long, sure it don't get really wet but still better intermediate then slick conditions. So why do people like Hamilton, do there normal stop and put on supersoft? He was going to pit anyway, since his medium tires was done so why not put on intermediate when you are first in the pit and they are the tires for the condition to the end? I can kind off understand why some people risk to not pit, since only 5laps left so it can be worth the gamble. But why pit for new slicks...

The AI simply avoid the intermediate tires and have NO ability to judge conditions even after it has started to rain which makes rain races so boring and easy. And again in that race, a easy 1-2 win because AI has no ability to jugde changing conditions

And don't come here and say its not worth it to pit, as you see on that picture. 5laps left, Schumacher is 9,7sec behind Malja(Red Bull, so not a bad team) and after 5 laps with intermediate vs slicks on a barely damped track Schumacher win and Malja in 3rd place, 30sec behind