[SPOILERS] ENDING My Interpretation and Confusions

[Slayer Seraph]

Ok just finished the game, and while I did enjoy it I was confused for almost the entire part since you fix the very last bridge.

1. Senua fixes the last bridge. Her voices tells her 'please stop, if you sacrifice yourself you will sacrifice us".
Senua let go of her "inner voices" / darkness / Psychosis / Old self- and crosses the mirror - leaving old Senua behind and emerging more determined.

2. Senua faces Hela- or is it THE SHADOW which seems to be Zynbel -
her father.
She even blames him for turning the village against her - making them believe she is cursed andsomething wrong with her. She even say "youate Hela". So I don't understand that part. She clearly had a grudge for her father as she suddenly realized that her father Zynbel murdered her mother (she says that and you see the scene).
and locked her up too.
3. She then fights forever basically until you are forced to "give up Dillion" and "Give up your figh"t because "you are killing yourself".
The voices which I was sure were GONE after crossing the mirror suddenly return to make you give up as well as warn you from enemies - plot hole?
4. Finally Senua gives up and succumb. Hela comes and 'kill her' - then goes and throws away then head of Dillion "seat of his soul" into the sea. But them we see that Hela is Senua and Hela herself lies dead on the ground - like she is really dead and all charred up with embers.. so it's not fake.

Now here are my major problems with this; my take, interpretation and questions:

A. Senua NEVER really thought she could bring Dillion to life!!
So why does the game wants to deliver the message of "coming to terms with his death" and letting go of Dillion and accepting he is gone?!
Proof:
*when you near the final gate: 1 voice says, more or less: "she needs to release his soul... so he could be put to rest..and BURY him".
*In the Scene with the poem and seeing Dillion dead in the village: the poem says his soul was taken to Hel and thus she cannot lay him to rest.
* the Celts believe the seat of the soul lies in the head - she need to take back his soul- release it from restless death- and set it free. Carrying back wth the head as a vessel and taking him home to put him to rest. For the Celts stealing the soul means its tormented and can't find proper rest. (I guess). It's the same with many religions.
* during the ship wreck shore near the Tree 1 voice says "she needs to put him to rest".

So my biggest major gripe with the whole "gotta let go and coming to terms with Dillion's death" is lovely BUT totally off here - because I was nerve under the impression that thinks she can resurrect him! It's not high fantasy where you can being back the dead. The world is more grounded.
Senua just wants to pay him respect and redeem herself by putting his soul to rest.

B. Senua is still "mad" / mentally ill - she always had that psychosis. Dillion's death was Not the catalyst of her Psychosis but it made her dealing with that worse and vice versa: metal illness made accepting and dealing with his loss harder.

I dunno why I was under the impression that the main conflict here was Senua coming to terms but escaping her "darkness" becoming mentally healthy or at least - paving a path to become normal.

I am not sure what's the game message about mental illness here and what's Senua's state in the end.
C. What Twist? People are taking about a twist? Which one?
I actually guessed it in advance that "Senua will be Hela" - kind of and that defeating Hela (and maybe dying of Rot) means coming to terms with Dillion's loss - because she releases him from herself.

[Slayer Seraph]

Originally posted by eineriar:

My personal interpretation is that Hela is a part of Senua, the part of her that does not accept Dillion's death and, metaphorically, keeps her soul imprisoned. During his speech with Hela, after tht infinite combat, Senua crosses the 5 Stages of Grief (Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) and finally accepts the death of her beloved and lets him go.
Senua finds peace and perhaps recovers a part of her mental equilibrium.
The narrator voice says she can not follow her anymore, but we players must keep on staying with her.
Perhaps the voice was her pain, and we (who have guided her to the end) are her inner strength and determination, and we will continue to follow her.

Hey nice take. That's actually how I too interpret the story.

But here is the problem here. Its arguable that Hela is actually the part that knew Dillion is lost and she must move on..
The whole ending fight sequence left me with mixed feelins.
We get that awesome "I am leaving the dark Senua behind and the voices" vibe. Her old self crumbles behind the mirror.

Hela and apparently the shadow/Zynbel appear. We fight them.
The voice seems to be against us- which is odd because the dark voice always seem to support Senua before, in his own way.
Senua keeps saying you are a liar..
(That part really confused me).

But then we need to give up - even though us the players want to triumph against her darkness, overcome the oppressors and her own mind ...
But she loses.. Hela wins..
But wait Hela is the one dead on the ground in the end..

So it's confusing if Hela is actually be the one that accepted Dillion is gone...
OR Hela is actually the part of Senua which imprisoned Dillion's soul metaphorically by not letting go and not accepting his loss.. and Senua does free him from her in the end.

[JackLaVaporiera]

Both Senua and her mother were "sensitiv", not "psychotic" who eventually turned on the latest side due to the ignorance and not acceptance of their familiars/comrades/neighbours/villagers/tribe members, their fear, their lies and actions to set something they couldn't understand.
This is the "gift" Dillion is speaking about as it seems he was the only one to understand.
Please filter everything under this light before taking your own conclusion about everything else.

[Slayer Seraph]

Originally posted by JackLaVaporiera:

Both Senua and her mother were "sensitiv", not "psychotic" who eventually turned on the latest side due to the ignorance and not acceptance of their familiars/comrades/neighbours/villagers/tribe members, their fear, their lies and actions to set something they couldn't understand.
This is the "gift" Dillion is speaking about as it seems he was the only one to understand.
Please filter everything under this light before taking your own conclusion about everything else.

What do you mean by that last line?
I know that's a big part of the point.

I covered that up in the beginning of the thread.
The people live in the dark ages. In a very tribal religious society.
They pretty much ignore Senua as "weirdo" until the point where she - somehow - discovers the darkness - aka deadly harmful waters that brought the plague maybe - then she is feared. They 'realize she is different' and because they don't understand her condition and because they don't understand the plague - like Dillion says- they fear and scorn her and put the blame on her.

I am not sure how she sensed the waters like that .. that's rather supernatural.. or just a well placed hunch?

I think it's rather understandable people feared her- heck even today many people will fear this behavior or feel uncomfortable near it -wouldn't you?
Back then there was no means nor research to tackle these symptoms.
Her father's rituals, her seclusion, the people harsh words and hostility, the lies spread on her and stiff they made her believe that was not ok with her, her mother's death- this was all really really bad for a person in an already unstable mental condition.
She needed support and care that very few could offer her in these time and place.
Dillion was that source of light. He is coming off as a very enlightened person.
That's why when she wanted to leave to the woods he objected- he wanted to be by her side. He also needed her.
She was wrong to leave him behind and go - and when she returned it was too late. He was dead. Just like that. I guess her regret for not listening to him is part of why felt like she needs to hold on to him and find his soul...

Dillion referred to it as a gift because he is the type of person to see the positive side of people and things- and accepted her as she is because it was part of her and what made her special.
Perhaps, as a Celt and believer, he also saw something as unique as a positive gift and not a curse from the gods.

[eineriar]

Originally posted by JackLaVaporiera:

Both Senua and her mother were "sensitiv", not "psychotic" who eventually turned on the latest side due to the ignorance and not acceptance of their familiars/comrades/neighbours/villagers/tribe members, their fear, their lies and actions to set something they couldn't understand.
This is the "gift" Dillion is speaking about as it seems he was the only one to understand.
Please filter everything under this light before taking your own conclusion about everything else.

The authors tell you from the beginning of the game that this is a story about psychosis. There is no supernatural power, they are all hallucinations. Simply the mother heard the voices and as she told her daughter she would have the same gift she started to hear them too. It's mental conditioning, things that happen in our time as well.

[ToCurseTheSky]

Originally posted by Ransom Seraph:

By the way:
What happened to her father?

If you get all the lorestones then at the end of the game right before passing into the final area there is a cutscenewith Druth where he tells Senua about a "man in black" from her lands that betrayed his people and was granted safe passage for it, and I assume that "man in black"
is her father so he could still be alive

[FuzzyLogic]

Originally posted by ToCurseTheSky:

If you get all the lorestones then at the end of the game right before passing into the final area there is a cutscenewith Druth where he tells Senua about a "man in black" from her lands that betrayed his people and was granted safe passage for it, and I assume that "man in black"
is her father so he could still be alive

That opens an interesting possibility for a sequel story.

[eineriar]

Originally posted by Ransom Seraph:

Originally posted by eineriar:

My personal interpretation is that Hela is a part of Senua, the part of her that does not accept Dillion's death and, metaphorically, keeps her soul imprisoned. During his speech with Hela, after tht infinite combat, Senua crosses the 5 Stages of Grief (Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) and finally accepts the death of her beloved and lets him go.
Senua finds peace and perhaps recovers a part of her mental equilibrium.
The narrator voice says she can not follow her anymore, but we players must keep on staying with her.
Perhaps the voice was her pain, and we (who have guided her to the end) are her inner strength and determination, and we will continue to follow her.

Hey nice take. That's actually how I too interpret the story.

But here is the problem here. Its arguable that Hela is actually the part that knew Dillion is lost and she must move on..
The whole ending fight sequence left me with mixed feelins.
We get that awesome "I am leaving the dark Senua behind and the voices" vibe. Her old self crumbles behind the mirror.

Hela and apparently the shadow/Zynbel appear. We fight them.
The voice seems to be against us- which is odd because the dark voice always seem to support Senua before, in his own way.
Senua keeps saying you are a liar..
(That part really confused me).

But then we need to give up - even though us the players want to triumph against her darkness, overcome the oppressors and her own mind ...
But she loses.. Hela wins..
But wait Hela is the one dead on the ground in the end..

So it's confusing if Hela is actually be the one that accepted Dillion is gone...
OR Hela is actually the part of Senua which imprisoned Dillion's soul metaphorically by not letting go and not accepting his loss.. and Senua does free him from her in the end.

Very interesting.
I believe that when Senua crosses the mirror she leaves behind some of her fears and uncertainties (her voices, which are part of her and therefore have her appearance) but not all of her dark side.
The flashback in which the father burns on the rocks the mother I think is a real memory, and that in that experience Senua's fear for darkness began.
Darkness is her despair.
Darkness is her despair, he has the voice and the appearance of Zynbel because he is responsible for his first trauma.
Desperation drives her to embark on his journey, but at the same time demoralizes her and tries to make her give up, because in this way despair acts on people.

[Lars]

Something I noticed about the monologue you unlock by getting all the runestones as well;
Druth wears a skull similar to the one worn by the enemies you fight which can be taken as her simply making that association while listening to his stories of the Norse, but during this dialogue he removes it and reveals the Valravn symbol.

It would certainly fit if you consider that Valravn is her manifestation of lies and deception. It's a fun cliffhanger, but I'm not sure if I want a sequel for it. Senua's story and everything surrounding it feels very sealed to me, especially considering the theme of moving on is the finale.

[Slayer Seraph]

Originally posted by eineriar:

Originally posted by Ransom Seraph:

Hey nice take. That's actually how I too interpret the story.

But here is the problem here. Its arguable that Hela is actually the part that knew Dillion is lost and she must move on..
The whole ending fight sequence left me with mixed feelins.
We get that awesome "I am leaving the dark Senua behind and the voices" vibe. Her old self crumbles behind the mirror.

Hela and apparently the shadow/Zynbel appear. We fight them.
The voice seems to be against us- which is odd because the dark voice always seem to support Senua before, in his own way.
Senua keeps saying you are a liar..
(That part really confused me).

But then we need to give up - even though us the players want to triumph against her darkness, overcome the oppressors and her own mind ...
But she loses.. Hela wins..
But wait Hela is the one dead on the ground in the end..

So it's confusing if Hela is actually be the one that accepted Dillion is gone...
OR Hela is actually the part of Senua which imprisoned Dillion's soul metaphorically by not letting go and not accepting his loss.. and Senua does free him from her in the end.

Very interesting.
I believe that when Senua crosses the mirror she leaves behind some of her fears and uncertainties (her voices, which are part of her and therefore have her appearance) but not all of her dark side.
The flashback in which the father burns on the rocks the mother I think is a real memory, and that in that experience Senua's fear for darkness began.
Darkness is her despair.
Darkness is her despair, he has the voice and the appearance of Zynbel because he is responsible for his first trauma.
Desperation drives her to embark on his journey, but at the same time demoralizes her and tries to make her give up, because in this way despair acts on people.

Umm.. clever.
I think you are right about the dark cloaked man - Zynbel her father - is depicted as the dark voice.
But I feel like it has more than one side to it.

Think about the final gate to hell and the corridor with the mirror:
They say (Senua thinks) that if Senua opens the door and continue forward to face Hela - she will have to sacrifice herself:
Aka the bargain for his Soul or The Rot or just death in battle.
And they sayb that if she is gone they will be gone too.
I think that's the point!
These voices are the same crowd of female voices you usually hear but specifically the "type" that is refusing to continue - the ones that protest and begs her to stop - are the more negative ones!
Her fear, her uncertainty, her depression ...
Then she leaves them behind the mirror. And moved on ahead more confident and sure to face her fate.
But the voice/s the carry with her for the finale fight -
Is actually soft! Reassuring. Protective..Reasonable.
The voices that say "she is weak" or "she is not gonna make it" and the voices that laughs mockingly and provokingly - these voices are 100% fine throughout the final sequence.
The final voice that stays with her also whispers softly.

When you finish the game the voices that carry on sounds pleasant and friendly.

In think it's possible that just as Senua as 2 or more layers/sides/characters - so does each of the voices:
We have fearful and confident voice
We have mocking and supportive voice etc..
Even the sinister voice has 2 sides:
The oppersive abusive "you betrayed your father" side (Zynbe) - and on the other side the more motivating voice that tells her to "pick up that sword and fight!" The one that after Garm is slain- asks her to trust him again and that his mission was to bring her thus far and pretty much entice her to fight on.

Like you said - despairation is what pushes her on through this journey but it also works in a reverse psychological way as a catalyst to encourage her:
You are weak, your suffering will be for nothing etc - then Senua wants to prove him wrong....

[Slayer Seraph]

Originally posted by Lars:

Something I noticed about the monologue you unlock by getting all the runestones as well;
Druth wears a skull similar to the one worn by the enemies you fight which can be taken as her simply making that association while listening to his stories of the Norse, but during this dialogue he removes it and reveals the Valravn symbol.

It would certainly fit if you consider that Valravn is her manifestation of lies and deception. It's a fun cliffhanger, but I'm not sure if I want a sequel for it. Senua's story and everything surrounding it feels very sealed to me, especially considering the theme of moving on is the finale.

Didn't see that scene yet. Need to replay the game. My first PT was really long. More than twice what they say it would take.
But my second assume will be much shorter. How long was yours?

About the possibility of a sequel. While I might like that. .. I think revenge will NOT be a thing.
Remember Druth's words of wisdom:
"Strike vengeance from your heart Senua! For there is always a heavy tool to pay."

That line really hit me hard. It stuck with me. I loved Druth's character and his amazing performance. Guy is so great to listen to. And I loved how he connected and compared Senua's actions with his stories in allegory and delivered the moral behind the stories and guidance.


--------
Btw- how come both Senua and her Mother heard voices ? Is such condition possibly genetically inherited?!

[JackLaVaporiera]

Originally posted by Ransom Seraph:

Originally posted by JackLaVaporiera:

Both Senua and her mother were "sensitiv", not "psychotic" who eventually turned on the latest side due to the ignorance and not acceptance of their familiars/comrades/neighbours/villagers/tribe members, their fear, their lies and actions to set something they couldn't understand.
This is the "gift" Dillion is speaking about as it seems he was the only one to understand.
Please filter everything under this light before taking your own conclusion about everything else.

What do you mean by that last line?

It was just a reminder to not loose focus for everyone else.
The very last part means that, not being something really happened, it's partially up to everyone to find what better suits a truth which is rather personal. (it's a game, after all)

Originally posted by eineriar:

Originally posted by JackLaVaporiera:

Both Senua and her mother were "sensitiv", not "psychotic" who eventually turned on the latest side due to the ignorance and not acceptance of their familiars/comrades/neighbours/villagers/tribe members, their fear, their lies and actions to set something they couldn't understand.
This is the "gift" Dillion is speaking about as it seems he was the only one to understand.
Please filter everything under this light before taking your own conclusion about everything else.

The authors tell you from the beginning of the game that this is a story about psychosis. There is no supernatural power, they are all hallucinations. Simply the mother heard the voices and as she told her daughter she would have the same gift she started to hear them too. It's mental conditioning, things that happen in our time as well.

They didn't talk about what could induce psychosis in Senua's life while the game itself actually does.

If you carefully follow the game plot you can find that everything begins with Senua being "sensitiv" to some extent, condition which eventually, given the era and the lack of knowledge, fills her with doubts, fears and other troubles which eventually gave birth at her psychosis, same as her mother before.

On the DNA side Senua inherited just "sensory abilties" from her mother, not "psychosis" which was induced in them both for the aforementioned reasons.

[eineriar]

Originally posted by JackLaVaporiera:

Originally posted by Ransom Seraph:

What do you mean by that last line?

It was just a reminder to not loose focus for everyone else.

Originally posted by eineriar:

The authors tell you from the beginning of the game that this is a story about psychosis. There is no supernatural power, they are all hallucinations. Simply the mother heard the voices and as she told her daughter she would have the same gift she started to hear them too. It's mental conditioning, things that happen in our time as well.

They didn't talk about what could induce psychosis in Senua's life while the game itself actually does.

If you carefully follow the game plot you can find that everything beging with Senua being "sensitiv" to some extent, condition which eventually, given the era and the lack of knowledge, fill her with doubts, fears and other troubles which eventually gave birth at her psychosis, same as her mother before.

On the DNA side Senua inherited just "sensory abilties" from her mother, not "psychosis" which was induced in them both for the aforementioned reasons.

The mother heard the voices, that does not mean he had paranormal sensitivity, but that she had some psychoses she thought was a divine gift. Superstitions and ignorance of the people, including her husband (who certainly did not have knowledge of mental disorders), condemned her.
This story speaks only of mental illness, there is nothing supernatural, no sensitivity to spirits.

[Lars]

Originally posted by Ransom Seraph:

Didn't see that scene yet. Need to replay the game. My first PT was really long. More than twice what they say it would take.
But my second assume will be much shorter. How long was yours?

Funny thing, my second playthrough was a lot longer than my first one because I had a context for everything and was curious about making sense of every little detail. For my first playthrough I was mostly confused while glazing over all the exposition and thinking "uh, okay then..." before continuing on my merry way to the objectives.

Originally posted by Ransom Seraph:

Btw- how come both Senua and her Mother heard voices ? Is such condition possibly genetically inherited?!

They briefly touch on this in the feature. I can't remember their exact wording, but the way I heard it was that it could be either genetic or learned and they weren't trying to make a statement about it being one or the other - hence leaving it open to be either or both. I wouldn't be surprised if this is largely unclear even today.

[JackLaVaporiera]

Originally posted by eineriar:

Originally posted by JackLaVaporiera:

It was just a reminder to not loose focus for everyone else.



They didn't talk about what could induce psychosis in Senua's life while the game itself actually does.

If you carefully follow the game plot you can find that everything beging with Senua being "sensitiv" to some extent, condition which eventually, given the era and the lack of knowledge, fill her with doubts, fears and other troubles which eventually gave birth at her psychosis, same as her mother before.

On the DNA side Senua inherited just "sensory abilties" from her mother, not "psychosis" which was induced in them both for the aforementioned reasons.

The mother heard the voices, that does not mean he had paranormal sensitivity, but that he had some psychoses she thought was a divine gift. Superstitions and ignorance of the people, including her husband (who certainly did not have knowledge of mental disorders), condemned her.
This story speaks only of mental illness, there is nothing supernatural, no sensitivity to spirits.

I must ask you to go play the game and come back to this discussion after taking a careful look at Senua's mother heads. Her mother wasn't a "fool" a "psychotic" or a "mental ill" but a "priestess", a "healer" to begin with. It's all about comprehension of "psychosis" in the actual era in contrast to a fictional Celtic era.

[eineriar]

Originally posted by Ransom Seraph:

Originally posted by eineriar:

Very interesting.
I believe that when Senua crosses the mirror she leaves behind some of her fears and uncertainties (her voices, which are part of her and therefore have her appearance) but not all of her dark side.
The flashback in which the father burns on the rocks the mother I think is a real memory, and that in that experience Senua's fear for darkness began.
Darkness is her despair.
Darkness is her despair, he has the voice and the appearance of Zynbel because he is responsible for his first trauma.
Desperation drives her to embark on his journey, but at the same time demoralizes her and tries to make her give up, because in this way despair acts on people.

Umm.. clever.
I think you are right about the dark cloaked man - Zynbel her father - is depicted as the dark voice.
But I feel like it has more than one side to it.

Think about the final gate to hell and the corridor with the mirror:
They say (Senua thinks) that if Senua opens the door and continue forward to face Hela - she will have to sacrifice herself:
Aka the bargain for his Soul or The Rot or just death in battle.
And they sayb that if she is gone they will be gone too.
I think that's the point!
These voices are the same crowd of female voices you usually hear but specifically the "type" that is refusing to continue - the ones that protest and begs her to stop - are the more negative ones!
Her fear, her uncertainty, her depression ...
Then she leaves them behind the mirror. And moved on ahead more confident and sure to face her fate.
But the voice/s the carry with her for the finale fight -
Is actually soft! Reassuring. Protective..Reasonable.
The voices that say "she is weak" or "she is not gonna make it" and the voices that laughs mockingly and provokingly - these voices are 100% fine throughout the final sequence.
The final voice that stays with her also whispers softly.

When you finish the game the voices that carry on sounds pleasant and friendly.

In think it's possible that just as Senua as 2 or more layers/sides/characters - so does each of the voices:
We have fearful and confident voice
We have mocking and supportive voice etc..
Even the sinister voice has 2 sides:
The oppersive abusive "you betrayed your father" side (Zynbe) - and on the other side the more motivating voice that tells her to "pick up that sword and fight!" The one that after Garm is slain- asks her to trust him again and that his mission was to bring her thus far and pretty much entice her to fight on.

Like you said - despairation is what pushes her on through this journey but it also works in a reverse psychological way as a catalyst to encourage her:
You are weak, your suffering will be for nothing etc - then Senua wants to prove him wrong....

Another clue about Hela's nature lies in the runes in the circle.
http://gameplay.tips/uploads/posts/2017-08/1502604381_1.jpg
Which I translated using this
http://www.centrosangiorgio.com/rock_satanico/alfabeti_magici/immagini/alfabeto_runico.jpg