Let's talk about combat (very subtle spoilers)

[Kurtney]

Well, so I finished the game twice and spent a lot of time reloading saves to repeat certain fights that I enjoyed (truly epic fights at the sea of corpses with "Gramr" soundtrack), messing around with Senua's moves. I discovered a truly satisfying combat (with some exceptions) and I wanted to talk about it.

Most people tend to think that the combat here is very "simplistic", while that's a term that may be relative to each one, and this game combat is ofc not DmC's, I think it's far from simple.

The fact that there is no information about possible "combos" made people to overlook the wide variety of movements that can be done in the game, and I will put some examples that I can remember, since I have not memorized everything that can be done yet.

Everything that I am going to say has been tested once you acquire the Gramr sword, and I'm also using XBO controller and default maps, which means X = fast attack, Y = strong attack, B = kick, A = dodge, LB = run

Parry: Most of the people will have noticed, but you can make normal parries or you can make "perfect" parries that allow you to make a counter movement. It's also possible to chain several perfect parries and you will see that there are two parrying animations that blend smoothly depending on which side Senua left her sword at the end of the previous animation. After a parry you can make three different moves: if you press B, you will stun the enemy for a decent amount of time an enemy (it will be removed if you hit him again). This stun has less duration the more powerful the enemy is. If you press Y, you will perform a 2h-heavy attack, and if you press X you will do a nice on-air-spinning attack, that BTW, reminds me a lot of the sword spin in DmC (makes sense, same devs :o). It is also possible to parry most of the heavy attacks (the big enemy that charges, or the shield attack), by doing perfect parries. And at last, it is also possible to parry ghost enemies and reveal them without needing to use the bullet time (I think it's possible only with perfect parries).

Dodge: There's one thing about dodging that I completely missed the first playthrough. If you hold Y you will charge Gramr, and you are also able to dodge forward, backward, and sideways, being able to release a strong attack if you release Y just after the dodge, and this movement has some variations depending to which side you previously dodged. This movement can also be done right after attacking with a normal fast or heavy attack (there are sometimes that the animation is blended almost instantly like for example 1light attack + hold Y + dodge to one way + release Y to attack). About normal dodge: there are more combos that probably most of you noticed, as for example dodge to one of the four sides + fast attack produce different attacks, or a more interesting one, dodge forward + kick = push, that can be followed (I think it was X + Y or viceversa) to play an awesome combo animation.

Combining attacks: I mentioned most of the parry stuff and leaved out some of the dodge stuff for you to try, but you get the idea, I could make a even longer brickwall of text describing most of the possible combinations, but one last thing I'd like to add, if you hit twice with X (or twice with Y) and then kick, you will see Senua punching, try to follow that with 2xY more or X's (can't remember if it had more variations) and that's another "combo", it's also possible to combine normal chains of fast and heavy attack but you probably discovered it if you played the game already.

Now to sum up: I'd like to finish by telling you to try to discover all the possible combinations, because there are a few more that I did not even mention (I even forgot to mention that you can combine with the run button too, but that was probably not overlooked by most people). I loved the cinematic + satisfying combat that NT made (with the exception of sometimes clunky targetting) and what else to say, loved the game, hopefully the more time passes people will realize the combat here is not as "simplistic" as it may seem.

What are your thoughts ?

[Ambry]

Did my best to try and figure out as many combos and moves and possible during my playthrough so I ended up really satisfied with the combat overall.

Perfect paries, combining all three types of attacks in a single combo, run attacks, dodge attacks, etc. Was especially satisfying during the couple of fights that had tons of enemies.

[Kurtney]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that unfortunately the game is really easy even on hardest difficulty (in-fight health regen + being able to come-back endless times) so It starts being satisfying the last third part of the game, when they start throwing you more enemies at once.

[Bullett00th]

I think we should be louder about the combat as a community.

I appreciate the decentralization of combat as a game's mechanic as it indeed isn't what the game is about, but in itself it's good enough to warrant a separate game mode imo.

[Kurtney]

Yeah, it's obvious that the combat was just an addition to the core idea of the game, but it's so fluid while also fitting the game (story / cinematic feel) intentions (loved the integration of the voices) that I wanted to give a bit of more in depth overview for something that many rushed reviews treated as simple. Count me in for an arena-like mode : )

[just.dont.do.it]

The combat is indeed simplistic at best - the amount of moves have nothing to do with it. Indeed, there's quite a sizeable moveset in the game, yet it is entirely unnecessary, and no matter the difficulty, the ENTIRE game is easily beaten through using nothing but RMB and Dodge (plus Focus whether required). Other moves are completely unnecessary. Dodge is cheap in a sense that it gives your quite a lenghty invincibility period.

All together it doesn't really changes the impression that the game is primarily a "walking sim" with a bit of extra elements on top.

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

The combat is indeed simplistic at best - the amount of moves have nothing to do with it. Indeed, there's quite a sizeable moveset in the game, yet it is entirely unnecessary, and no matter the difficulty, the ENTIRE game is easily beaten through using nothing but RMB and Dodge (plus Focus whether required). Other moves are completely unnecessary. Dodge is cheap in a sense that it gives your quite a lenghty invincibility period.

All together it doesn't really changes the impression that the game is primarily a "walking sim" with a bit of extra elements on top.

I can't disagree, but it just FEELS so good!
Funny how a game that has combat as an afterthought manages to make this combat feel meatier and more cinematic than many combat-oriented games

[Kurtney]

Originally posted by Bullett00th:

Funny how a game that has combat as an afterthought manages to make this combat feel meatier and more cinematic than many combat-oriented games

Well to be fair to those "combat oriented" games, the cinematic feel comes from the closer camera position and a very specific framing of Senua, with narrower FoV than the usual third person game, combined with fixed camera animations during certain movements (the running to an enemy aberrant-like camera angle comes to my mind).

In a purely combat based game generally you wouldn't want the camera to be constraining your vision and therefore the gameplay that much as the majority of players wouldn't like that (it also depends on the rythm of the fight and other mechanics).

Anyways, I can think of several games (like The Witcher 3) that could take this combat as reference to make their own (hoping for a TW4 :D), and make the combat feel much more into the "feeling" of the game, that is, the cinematic feeling we are talkign about.

[just.dont.do.it]

Originally posted by Bullett00th:

I can't disagree, but it just FEELS so good!
Funny how a game that has combat as an afterthought manages to make this combat feel meatier and more cinematic than many combat-oriented games

Yup, it is indeed very well-made. Too bad it's not really that necessary for a game like this. Although of course "real" combat and not some quick-time events or somesuch adds to immersion in quite many places throughout the game.

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by Kurtney:

Well to be fair to those "combat oriented" games, the cinematic feel comes from the closer camera position and a very specific framing of Senua, with narrower FoV than the usual third person game, combined with fixed camera animations during certain movements (the running to an enemy aberrant-like camera angle comes to my mind).

In a purely combat based game generally you wouldn't want the camera to be constraining your vision and therefore the gameplay that much as the majority of players wouldn't like that (it also depends on the rythm of the fight and other mechanics).

I would have agreed with you before having played this game.
I found that I actually like the camera (for this game that is) as it makes each encounter much more personal. Ninja Theory have demonstrated that you CAN do melee combat with close-up over the shoulder camera.
And they know how to make a deeper combat system, so combining these two 'features' would be amazing

[Kurtney]

Originally posted by Bullett00th:

I would have agreed with you before having played this game.
I found that I actually like the camera (for this game that is) as it makes each encounter much more personal. Ninja Theory have demonstrated that you CAN do melee combat with close-up over the shoulder camera.
And they know how to make a deeper combat system, so combining these two 'features' would be amazing

I also loved how they managed the camera, and would take it over any standardized third person camera = ). I was mostly speaking in behalf of the majority of players out there. There's one big thing to consider this kind of camera: being able to tell what's behind you (or just out of your vision) by whatever mechanic you want to. NT came with the freaking awesome idea of having the voices whispering you so you are actually able to parry or dodge attacks that come right outside your vision, and the sound quality also helps to know what's in your surroundings.

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by Kurtney:

NT came with the freaking awesome idea of having the voices whispering you so you are actually able to parry or dodge attacks that come right outside your vision, and the sound quality also helps to know what's in your surroundings.

precisely. it also makes you think about how Senua's curse in life is also her blessing when in combat

[Kleerex]

This game has dodge attacks too?!

Combat system is decent, but it is criminally underused in game. I hope devs are planning a DLC or something where they would use it more extensively. Like, a survival mode similar to Serious Sam 3's, or arena, or (gasp!) even PvP.

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by Reloaded:

This game has dodge attacks too?!

Combat system is decent, but it is criminally underused in game. I hope devs are planning a DLC or something where they would use it more extensively. Like, a survival mode similar to Serious Sam 3's, or arena, or (gasp!) even PvP.

PVP is unlikely due to the game not having an online component, however it would be interesting to see this combat system against other players

[Marjan]

It's very varied and has a lot of depth, but you don't have to use it. You could dodge or parry every attack, it makes no difference. I would have loved to see more forced uses of specific actions. But I have to agree, it feels and looks great.

[Kleerex]

I found a pretty good combo against enemies that are still standing after heavy counter-attack. Parry, then do heavy counter-attack (enemy gets knocked back). If it is still standing, do a running heavy attack (spin slash) to guard-break, and then light attack which is stab finisher.