Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice

Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice

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-=o\BUTCHER/o=- 10 AGO 2017 a las 21:15
Just How Celtic Is It?
I've been wanting to play a game that reflects my ethnic culture for a VERY long time, and I'm also a practicing Druid IRL (the historical kind, not the video game kind, people), so you can imagine how important this is to me. To elaborate on the question: does the Celtic element stop with the character? Is she just a Celt stuck in an Asatru ethos, or do the devs actually take time to give us (or rather you guys) a Celtic history lesson? Are there any other Celtic characters in the game? Are any of the Celtic Divines present in the game?

It's kind of a make-or-break deal for me.
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Drifta 11 AGO 2017 a las 15:45 
Publicado originalmente por Tearjerker:
Don't get me wrong, I was originally intrigued by the premise of this game and was eager to try it but after viewing some of the videos I was dismayed by the portrayal of the protagonist.

I won't be able to play this game due to the protagonists accent. It completely breaks immersion for me, it's not credible.

Senua is a member of a Celtic tribe from northern Scotland known as the Picts. The game is set around the time of the Viking raids on the island of Orkney. So why would this Celtic warrior from the north of Scotland sound like a southern English school teacher? Why would she sound like the very English, very posh and very privileged Lara Croft?

I have to question the intentions, ethics and motives of this game and developer. They are perfectly happy to exploit Celtic culture and imagery right down to the blue face paint but unwilling to use an actual Celt to portray the character. They are using a Celtic face but giving it an Anglo-Saxon voice.

For centuries Celtic culture was oppressed, persecuted, dismissed and marginalised in the UK and Ireland. The people of the indigenous celtic nations of the UK have frequently faced discrimination and harrassment throughout this period. So for the Pictish protagonist to use the accent of the culture that actually repressed celtic culture and nations for the best part of a millenium is particulary offensive. Worse still it uses the dialect/accent of the British establishment, the architects of this oppression.

Now this wouldn’t have been a problem if they had made the character Anglo-Saxon. At this time in history this is a perfectly viable alternative. They could have easily made the character an Anglo-Saxon from the Kingdom of Northumbria (modern day Northern England) at the time of the Viking attack on Lindisfarne (Holy Island) in 793.

No, they chose to make the character a Celt. If they really wanted the character to speak as an English-person they should have made them a Northumbrian not a Pict.

They think it’s appropriate that an 8-10th century Pictish warrior should have a generic, anonymous, middle class southern English accent and use received pronunciation.

This raises a number of questions. Why would an English developer not tell an English story? Why would they appropriate somebody else’s culture when their own cultural history would allow them to tell the same story in the same timeline, in the same vicinity?

Could it possibly be that the term “Anglo-Saxon” has become tainted and conjures up images of racists and white supremacists and reminds people of the term WASP. Is “Anglo-Saxon” now a tainted brand akin to Ayran. Are they so ashamed of their own identity and history that they feel the need to steal somebody else’s?

Is Celtic culture seen as a more benign, inclusive, user friendly, sympathetic, socially acceptable culture and therefore more commercially exploitable and lucrative?

I find the game design choices made by the developers highly questionable, distasteful and unethical. Their expedient cultural compromises make me suspect their motives for using Celtic culture. This anglification is an insult to people of Celtic heritage/identity everywhere. Not only is it not credible, it's pretty damned offensive. I shouldn't be surprised given that the devs are based in Cambridge, England.

My daughter's Irish bf spits whenever he sees a union jack lol...

I really don't think you're a troll and tbh I was disappointed at the accent too myself, even though I'm an Australian of Welsh and Basque heritage and am far removed from the issues..

I don't think cultural appropriation is an actual thing though tbh and they probably used a generic english accent for wider appeal... it's just another case of artistic laziness imo...

I've been searching for a genuine celtic experience in gaming for a long time though and nothing has really stuck out at all.
McShave07 11 AGO 2017 a las 16:23 
Publicado originalmente por Tearjerker:
Yeah, because it's so hard for international audiences to understand:

Ewan MacGregor, James McAvoy, David Tennant, Peter Capaldi , Gerard Butler, Robert Carlyle, Brian Cox, David McCallum (NCIS), Craig Ferguson (The Late Late Show CBS), Sean Connery, Deborah Kerr (The King an I), Karen Gillan, Sam Heugan (Outlander), Iain McDairmid (Star Wars - Emperor), Kelly MacDonald (Brave) etc, etc............................

Those are mainland Scottish actors. Senua is from Orkney which has a very diffrent sounding accent if you wanted to use a modern equivalent. It would have been nice if they though of using that but might have been tough for people whose main tounge isn't english.
JD.Horx 11 AGO 2017 a las 16:44 
Ok, i guess you convinced me, that with a moderate accent there should be no problems.

But I think I will never truly understand the inner conflicts you have on that nice little island of yours.
Killer Kitten 11 AGO 2017 a las 21:53 
Okay so I asked my dad, a historian what he thought of the game. Keep in mind, he has no clue of any of the story context. I gave him an article from the creators as well as the character model and this what he has to say.

1. Vikings and Picts are not necessarily contemporary with each other (the histories of the time and place are ambiguous.) The Picts were not Celts, but the Scots were and are. There may have been scattered remnants of them (Picts) wandering about, but by 700s AD. Scotland was mainly Scottish.
2. Mirrors were made of bronze. Iron does not polish easily (as opposed to steel) and both iron and steel oxidize much too readily to make into mirrors. Bronze, on the other hand takes a very fine polish, and oxidizes much slower than iron would. The better mirror smiths (yes, they existed) would guild the face of the mirror with pure silver which polishes even better or even gold. Today, we would use chromium, but that was unknown at that time. (in America, the Hopewell made mirrors from polished hematite, or mica, but neither would be sufficiently reflective to actually use them for more than flashy shiny things.)
3. Only the Vikings would be wearing trousers, as the Celtic peoples in England and Scotland generally despised them. It took the Germanic peoples to invent trousers, though evidently Asterix's people seem to have accepted them. The Romans reluctantly copied their Germanic enemies, because like the Germans, they were intent on fighting wars in the winter as well as the summer months, unlike all the civilized people of the day, like the Greeks and the Celts. Spring and Autumn were generally war free so that the farmers could produce the food that was the primary fuel for all the warriors running about in the summer and winter. Women would not wear trousers...ever. Everybody would, however, wear a tunic, usually made of wool or, if rich enough, linen, except in Egypt, where they would also have cotton.
4. Tartan or Plaid was only used in western China at this time. As you know, tartan was not introduced in Scotland until the early eighteenth century.
6. The sword is not period correct. The one depicted was from the Hallstadt period in what is today Austria (ca.800 BC). They were the first steel blades, however. In the eighth century AD, virtually all swords in northern Europe, including Scotland would be viking type broadswords, which were invented by the Franks in today's France, or leaf-bladed short swords, or the Germanic dagger, the scramasachs (from which the Saxons got their name, btw.)
7. Woad would not have been worn at all. It is acidic and would blister the skin. The idea that the Celts wore woad was developed in the Victorian times to explain how the Celts could have worn blue paint on their bodies. They, in all actuality, probably used some sort of copper ore, like malachite, azurite or even lapis to get the desired colors. Besides tin, the British Isles were very rich in copper, which is one of the reasons that the Romans invaded them in the first place. The copper colors, if worn long enough, would stain the skin, and thus were semi-permanent.
8. Wolf skin capes were acceptable. Wearing of wolf or more importantly bear fur meant that the warrior wearing them was a Berserker, or a warrior who had dedicated him (or her) self to Odin or the Celtic equivalent as a warrior priest. In actuality, Berserkers did not froth from their mouths, bite their shields and rush willy-nilly into battle irregardless of their own and others' lives. They were very calculating in their violence. What they would do was dedicate any kill (they did not take prisoners except to sacrifice them later) as ritual offerings to the gods and ancestors. Furs, however, are usually more of a hindrance than a help for most clothing usages, especially when worn in battle. The skins are fragile in comparison to cloth and leather made from cow hide. They would need to be sewn onto a cloth backing in order to have any chance of lasting more than a short time.
Última edición por Killer Kitten; 11 AGO 2017 a las 21:53
Groota 12 AGO 2017 a las 11:03 
Nobody knows what english with a dark ages Celt accent would sound like. For that matter we'd need subtitles to translate dark ages english regardless. This is no more disrespectfull than the OP's modern Druidism, trying to receate, from from feeling and imagination, mainly, since the Celts had no writing, a story from the gloom of unrecorded history. I have problems with it's bugs, but I can't see how anyone could play this for 5 minutes and doubt the sincere love in it's crafting.
Grubbs008 12 AGO 2017 a las 11:22 
They could have made it 69.99 USD like so many other 8-10 hour titles.. So everyone just be greatful and shut it.
John_Goatti 12 AGO 2017 a las 11:34 
Tl;dr but get the gist of a lot of what's going on here.

Yes it's only a game, but I for one get really p*ssed off with Hollywood when they mess with history, especially WWII. They make 'true story' films depicting events and change the nationality of the persons involved in decisive events to American all the time.

Because of this, I can fully understand why people are asking 'How Celtic is it?' just like I'll ask 'How true to life is this film?' because if they've bastardised it I will not watch it, because it will anger me beyond boiling point.
John_Goatti 12 AGO 2017 a las 11:34 
*B a s t a r d i s e d
Sheesh Steam.
-=o\BUTCHER/o=- 13 AGO 2017 a las 19:49 
I just wanted to know how culturally involved the Celtic "mythos" was in this game. Apparently the eternal Anglo has struck again and (again) are trying to express how much they hate their own Celtic heritage and their insular Celt neighbors (Scotts, Irish, and Welsh) under the guise of a video game. And their main character? A skitzo Pict going bat$#!7 in a realm not of her own culture, tradition, or spirituality. I'd be offended by this game more if I was born in Scotland. I should ask what my grandma thinks, lol.

Britbongs: committing cultural suicide since 500 BC

And to answer the question...

Publicado originalmente por Fox:
You seriously practice being a druid?

Yes. I'm a Gaelic Reconstructionist Druid and Tribal Socialist (not the commie kind). If you're interested in what it all means, throw me a PM. Serious inquires only, please.

Nilla 13 AGO 2017 a las 20:17 
From my own personal research i found this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senuna. I belivie that Senua might be a Celtic Goddess fighting in the norse world. The wikipedia article has a part where the name of Senuna was miss read as "Senua". Hope you find this helpful!
-=o\BUTCHER/o=- 13 AGO 2017 a las 22:21 
Publicado originalmente por Hitman0909:
From my own "personal research" i found this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senuna.

Trusting (((Wikipedia))).
How...niave.

lazarusblack 30 AGO 2017 a las 11:23 
Tearjerker, your banging on about the lack of a celtic voice actor because of english appropriation of your cultural heritage? seriously. Of all the things in the world for you to be geting worked up about?

England didn't even exist then, nor did the english language, the anglo-saxons spoke a derivation of german, so maybe they should have got a german voice actor, would that have been better for you? I personally can't understand a thing most scots say, so think goodness they didn't go with a scots accent. As to the picts, we have no idea what a pict sounded like and no, picts and scots are about as similar as Anglo-saxons and modern english people. Get a grip.
Última edición por lazarusblack; 30 AGO 2017 a las 11:24
-=o\BUTCHER/o=- 30 AGO 2017 a las 11:49 
Publicado originalmente por lazarusblack:
Tearjerker, your banging on about the lack of a celtic voice actor because of english appropriation of your cultural heritage? seriously. Of all the things in the world for you to be geting worked up about?

England didn't even exist then, nor did the english language, the anglo-saxons spoke a derivation of german, so maybe they should have got a german voice actor, would that have been better for you? I personally can't understand a thing most scots say, so think goodness they didn't go with a scots accent. As to the picts, we have no idea what a pict sounded like and no, picts and scots are about as similar as Anglo-saxons and modern english people. Get a grip.

T. "History Major Joel Shekelstein"
NOT AN ARGUMENT.
Would have still been more relevant with a Scottish voice actor.
Dave 31 AGO 2017 a las 12:18 
Publicado originalmente por ┐AkH└ Butcher ☪:
Yes. I'm a Gaelic Reconstructionist Druid and Tribal Socialist (not the commie kind). If you're interested in what it all means, throw me a PM. Serious inquires only, please.

Lets test this then.

Má tá tú, mar a deir tú, ar dhuine atá ag iarraidh filleadh ar an traidisiún Ceilteach. Ansin cén fáth a labhraíonn tú i mBéarla ach nach bhfuil tú ag labhairt i dteanga Cheilteach? Ní cosúil go bhfuil sé an-barántúil. Is dócha gur shocraigh siad Béarla a úsáid seachas an teanga Cheilteach do an chluiche mar go bhfuil na teangacha Ceilteacha an-deacair a fhoghlaim. Níl sé ina theanga tipiciúil, is iad na teangacha Ceilteacha ceann de na teangacha is sin ar domhan.

Déanann formhór na ndaoine iarracht ár gcultúr ársa a mhúnlú ar a gcuid bealaí toisc go bhfuil sé deacair a thuiscint. Tarlaíonn sé freisin le traidisiúin Lochlannacha. Tá coincheap na déithe Ceilteach cosúil leis na teangacha Ceilteacha éagsúla i mar choincheap mearbhall.

Ar an bhfíric shimplí gur labhair tú i mBéarla ó thús go deireadh, mar a deir tú go bhfuil tú ag irraidh na traidisiúin a athbheochan, is dóigh liom nach bhfuil tú tromchúiseach. I mo thuairimse, ní ghlacann tú páirt i n-íobairtí daonna nó go n-ólóidh tú an fuil de do mhuintir marbh ionas gur féidir leat teagmhál a dhéanamh leo. Níl an cultúr Ceilteach chomh sásta agus iontach mar is maith le daoine a chreidiúint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEH0j9KsjCw

Ar chúis eile gur rognaigh siad Béarla a úsáid, ní thuigeann beagnach gach duine sa domhan an teangacha Cheilteach. N'fheadar cé mhéad daoine a bhfuil an cumas acu an méid a dúirt mé díreach a léamh agus a thuiscint.

Má fhreagraíonn tú é seo i mBéarla, is é sin go léir is gá dom a fháíl amach cé chomh tiomanta is atá tú an cultúr Ceilteach a athbheochan. Má deir tú 'Níl mé Gaeilge', is sampla eile é sin cad chuige a roghnaigh siad Béarla a úsáid seachas teanga Cheilteach. Is féidir leat do saol ar fad a thiomnú chun teanga Cheilteach a fhoghlaim agus beidh tú fós nua don chultúr mar gheall ar an dóigh a bhfuil difríocht idir gach teanga acu.
-=o\BUTCHER/o=- 31 AGO 2017 a las 19:03 
Publicado originalmente por Dave:
Publicado originalmente por ┐AkH└ Butcher ☪:
Yes. I'm a Gaelic Reconstructionist Druid and Tribal Socialist (not the commie kind). If you're interested in what it all means, throw me a PM. Serious inquires only, please.

Lets test this then.

Má tá tú, mar a deir tú, ar dhuine atá ag iarraidh filleadh ar an traidisiún Ceilteach. Ansin cén fáth a labhraíonn tú i mBéarla ach nach bhfuil tú ag labhairt i dteanga Cheilteach? Ní cosúil go bhfuil sé an-barántúil. Is dócha gur shocraigh siad Béarla a úsáid seachas an teanga Cheilteach do an chluiche mar go bhfuil na teangacha Ceilteacha an-deacair a fhoghlaim. Níl sé ina theanga tipiciúil, is iad na teangacha Ceilteacha ceann de na teangacha is sin ar domhan.

Déanann formhór na ndaoine iarracht ár gcultúr ársa a mhúnlú ar a gcuid bealaí toisc go bhfuil sé deacair a thuiscint. Tarlaíonn sé freisin le traidisiúin Lochlannacha. Tá coincheap na déithe Ceilteach cosúil leis na teangacha Ceilteacha éagsúla i mar choincheap mearbhall.

Ar an bhfíric shimplí gur labhair tú i mBéarla ó thús go deireadh, mar a deir tú go bhfuil tú ag irraidh na traidisiúin a athbheochan, is dóigh liom nach bhfuil tú tromchúiseach. I mo thuairimse, ní ghlacann tú páirt i n-íobairtí daonna nó go n-ólóidh tú an fuil de do mhuintir marbh ionas gur féidir leat teagmhál a dhéanamh leo. Níl an cultúr Ceilteach chomh sásta agus iontach mar is maith le daoine a chreidiúint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEH0j9KsjCw

Ar chúis eile gur rognaigh siad Béarla a úsáid, ní thuigeann beagnach gach duine sa domhan an teangacha Cheilteach. N'fheadar cé mhéad daoine a bhfuil an cumas acu an méid a dúirt mé díreach a léamh agus a thuiscint.

Má fhreagraíonn tú é seo i mBéarla, is é sin go léir is gá dom a fháíl amach cé chomh tiomanta is atá tú an cultúr Ceilteach a athbheochan. Má deir tú 'Níl mé Gaeilge', is sampla eile é sin cad chuige a roghnaigh siad Béarla a úsáid seachas teanga Cheilteach. Is féidir leat do saol ar fad a thiomnú chun teanga Cheilteach a fhoghlaim agus beidh tú fós nua don chultúr mar gheall ar an dóigh a bhfuil difríocht idir gach teanga acu.


I should have clarified.
I'm Celtic ethnically, American nationally. I am studying Gaelic, though. Currently trying to grasp the weird way the alphabet works together.
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Publicado el: 10 AGO 2017 a las 21:15
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