Un-announced murder? [ending spoilers]

[7Soul]

So first of all, multiple times during the game, we're told that even the mastermind has to follow the rules, AND we know the mastermind is a student.

We know the mastermind, that is Junko, killed Mukuro using Monokuma

BUT

The "murder notice" never happened.

By the rules of the game, shouldn't that be considered a murder like any other?

[LimeCatMaster]

No, because Mukuro broke the school regulations by attacking Monokuma.

[7Soul]

Originally posted by LimeCatMaster:

No, because Mukuro broke the school regulations by attacking Monokuma.

So that creates a loophole I guess. It was still technically one student killing another, but there was another rule saying you would be punished regardless. Ok!

[LimeCatMaster]

Breaking a rule is punishible, same as being caught after a murder. It's established right out of the gate. By your logic, wouldn't every execution also be a murder?

[7Soul]

I see it like the rule-breaking punishment. The voted person must be executed, Junko is just the one to carry it out as someone must enforce the rule.

Either that or having a "secret student" as the mastermind isn't the most perfect and failproof plot twist of all time

[Ｈｅｎｋｅ３７]

It's execution, not murder. You can tell the difference because only one of them is approved by "the authorities".

[jamesrg84]

in that case, Junko should not of been punished in case 6 for the "murder" of mukoro. maybe they will bring her back in DR3?? an eplain it like a faked death scene then cryogenic freezing

Phuhuhuhuhuhu

[LimeCatMaster]

Originally posted by jamesrg84:

in that case, Junko should not of been punished in case 6 for the "murder" of mukoro. maybe they will bring her back in DR3?? an eplain it like a faked death scene then cryogenic freezing

Phuhuhuhuhuhu

Someone hasn't played the other DR games

[Phantron]

Mukuro's death is obviously rigged in terms of rules because if she counts as being murdered then there would be a 'a body has been found' right as she died since clearly more than 3 students were around when she died. Since that didn't happen, there can't possibly be a second 'body has been discovered' later in chapter 5 because a body can only be discovered once. Of course if her initial death doesn't count as being murdered then again the second time her body was found could not have triggered a 'body was found' since it didn't count the first time either and nothing has changed between the first time and second time. They acknowledge it was rigged which is why picking Kyoko or Makoto, and in fact anyone else as the murderer would've been correct because it's rigged.

This is also why Kyoko is basically going "Hey everyone this is totally rigged just like wrestling!" which forced the climatic battle to save the ratings.

[jamesrg84]

Originally posted by LimeCatMaster:

Originally posted by jamesrg84:

in that case, Junko should not of been punished in case 6 for the "murder" of mukoro. maybe they will bring her back in DR3?? an eplain it like a faked death scene then cryogenic freezing

Phuhuhuhuhuhu

Someone hasn't played the other DR games

so whats your point, she executed herself and the only way to bring back a dead char is some crazy plot twist Spike are so fond of
DR2 spoiler lets not mention she kinda comes backin DR2, Phuhuhuhu

[LimeCatMaster]

Originally posted by jamesrg84:

Originally posted by LimeCatMaster:

Someone hasn't played the other DR games

so whats your point, she executed herself and the only way to bring back a dead char is some crazy plot twist Spike are so fond of
DR2 spoiler lets not mention she kinda comes backin DR2, Phuhuhuhu [/quote]

well
That's what I was getting at, and why it was in spoilers. No offense, but anyone should have been able to easily pick up on the implication that she returns not only in DR2, but in Another Episode as well.

[Z1gZak]

Lets not forget that in chapter 5 Junko trys to trap Kyoko by trowing Mukuros body at everyone and announce that. Even tho there were no real killer she trys executing Makoto... Will you complain about that too? :-D

[Phantron]

I thought it was pretty obvious that there was nothing fair about chapter 5 on purpose. If the cast picked a dead person other than Junko, Junko would just execute everyone else for being wrong. If they picked any living person, she'd just execute that person. And if the cast miraculously picked Junko, since there was no way to prove it she can just claim that was wrong too. It's not like the audience could've known the correct answer is Junko either.

I'm not even sure what was the point of the whole trap because Junko can do whatever she wants anyway and it's an extreme leap of faith to say that Junko would be worried enough about her TV ratings to accept Kyoko's terms. The only logical solution you can get is that you're totally screwed.

[Shirsh]

Originally posted by Phantron:

I'm not even sure what was the point of the whole trap because Junko can do whatever she wants anyway and it's an extreme leap of faith to say that Junko would be worried enough about her TV ratings to accept Kyoko's terms. The only logical solution you can get is that you're totally screwed.

I think she was in painful need to get a constant fixes by new fresh Despair. She gain a lot: from all that "hope of mankind" circle, from cornered murderers, from survivors, in the end from herself. Like a huge mosachistic gambit to put herself into deepest despair by losing her own game. She defenitely died happiest person she ever was. I think she was like seeking for biggest and strongest fix that wil be a gravestone to her glorious crusade for despair. She could achieve this only by losing. And it couldn't be as sweet as it was if students didn't solved all mysteries and didn't feeled despair too.

[Phantron]

Originally posted by Shirsh:

Originally posted by Phantron:

I'm not even sure what was the point of the whole trap because Junko can do whatever she wants anyway and it's an extreme leap of faith to say that Junko would be worried enough about her TV ratings to accept Kyoko's terms. The only logical solution you can get is that you're totally screwed.

I think she was in painful need to get a constant fixes by new fresh Despair. She gain a lot: from all that "hope of mankind" circle, from cornered murderers, from survivors, in the end from herself. Like a huge mosachistic gambit to put herself into deepest despair by losing her own game. She defenitely died happiest person she ever was. I think she was like seeking for biggest and strongest fix that wil be a gravestone to her glorious crusade for despair. She could achieve this only by losing. And it couldn't be as sweet as it was if students didn't solved all mysteries and didn't feeled despair too.

Sure, but how does any of the characters in the story know that? If you're one of the guys trapped inside, the most likely conclusion you make after chapter 5 is that the mastermind blatantly ignored the 'I will follow my own rules' deal and you were a fool to believe whatever psycho that locked you up in a murder game would actually follow rules in the first place. In fact one of the real stupid things of the game is that why does anyone in the story trust the mastermind is telling the truth regarding pretty much anything in the game? Yes, it turns out she is telling the truth most of the time, but why should you believe?

To be fair you can argue that Kyoko figured they had nothing to lose if the mastermind was going to just keep on go back on her word, though I don't see how she could've done that as anything more than a final act of desperation.

[Shirsh]

Originally posted by Phantron:

To be fair you can argue that Kyoko figured they had nothing to lose if the mastermind was going to just keep on go back on her word, though I don't see how she could've done that as anything more than a final act of desperation.

If I remember correctly she wasn't sure, but risked, when came with Mokoto to the gym. For most part they were just a prisoners, not matter to trust or not: it changes nothing, show goes on. But they take a risk and provoked mastermind to replay last trial. And it worked.
I could guess that Kyoko analized mastermind character deep enough to predict their reactions, guessed that mastermind just need to make a hi-tension despair show, but maybe it's just a fiction.
Like if it was not a fiction, real mastermind just could edit trial records (could it be shown online though?) and eliminate any contradictions etc. But fiction, mastermind is passionate crazy person, with suicidal behaviour, not a real cold blooded mastermind. Story require to believe in some things "because that what this person was like", created loophole for herself and didn't avoided trap, chosed loud end instead of calm retreat, because of boredom and lack of strong emotions. Because of personal traits.

I'm more troubled by fact that Monokuma said that it's Mukuro who write rules (if I remember it correctly), but since Mukuro was dead long before "breaking doors" rule it's a lie. Though there could be difference for mastermind in following rules and telling truth on a camera, unlike the moments when no one knows for sure. Also I feel idea that all that time Junko was running like crazy in data center between bear control room and security monitors bad for credibility.

Moment when I understand how bad my English is >_<
I like how game force to think about its plot and contradictions.