A Murderer in the Valley

[Zales]

If you came here for some crappy fanfiction then go away, this is a legitimate point that I am about to make.

So in SV you are able to kill these things called Shadow Brutes and Shadow Shamans. As we all know, one of these Shadow Brutes lives in town - Krobus. Because of Krobus we can assume that Shadow Brutes and Shadow Shamans are sentient beings. They know the difference between right and wrong, can speak an actual language, and understand their surroundings. Does this mean that when we kill one of these we are actually commiting murder?

Think about it. If you kill humans, another sentient creature, you are murdering them. If Shadow People (as I will now call them) are sentient, that means that we are murdering them when we kill them. And this isn't in self defense either, as we are trespassing in their home. When they attack us they are doing it to protect both themselves and their homes.

Stardew Valley, the game where you play as a psychopathic farmer - 8/10 Needs more blood.

[paugus]

Killing is killing, sentience is not relevant. Rationalize the behavior all you want, but killing something for any reason is still killing. Trying to distinguish between sentient and non-sentient is a semantics game people play to try to absolve themselves of the guilt of having ended a life.

[Zales]

paugus님이 먼저 게시:

Killing is killing, sentience is not relevant. Rationalize the behavior all you want, but killing something for any reason is still killing. Trying to distinguish between sentient and non-sentient is a semantics game people play to try to absolve themselves of the guilt of having ended a life.

Why hello there paugus.

Also, it does matter whether or not something is sentient if you kill it. If something doesn't even realize that it existed then why feel bad about it? That's like saying that killing cows for food is wrong.

[Ekat]

Zales님이 먼저 게시:

Also, it does matter whether or not something is sentient if you kill it. If something doesn't even realize that it existed then why feel bad about it? That's like saying that killing cows for food is wrong.

I agree on this part.

But I still think that Krobus is the only Shadow Person that is sentient.

And let's stop arguing, shall we?

[paugus]

Zales님이 먼저 게시:

paugus님이 먼저 게시:

Killing is killing, sentience is not relevant. Rationalize the behavior all you want, but killing something for any reason is still killing. Trying to distinguish between sentient and non-sentient is a semantics game people play to try to absolve themselves of the guilt of having ended a life.

Why hello there paugus.

Also, it does matter whether or not something is sentient if you kill it. If something doesn't even realize that it existed then why feel bad about it? That's like saying that killing cows for food is wrong.

Did you know rats have metacognition? They're capable of realizing they can think.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1861845/

Do you even have a definition for "sentient" or is it just a convenient label you use to excuse killing? Why do you imagine a cow will try to prevent you from killing it if it can't feel the fear of pain and death? I don't think you've examined those questions at all, because "sentient" is such a handy label that you can completely minimize the death of a living animal.

Plus, once you're dead, you wouldn't be able to worry about being dead or even having ever existed, so why isn't it also okay to kill you? If you're asleep and currently unaware of your existence and unable to contemplate life or death, would it be acceptable to kill you then? Why do you think such an arbitrary mental state defines whether or not killing is justifiable?

[Erebus]

Gralzeim님이 먼저 게시:

Yeah, but...they're enemy mobs that drop loot.

That makes it okay.

Yes, it does! But, come to think of it, those NPCs might have some loot as well.

And I've been running low on things lately.

And they don't seem to need it.

Hehe...hehehehehe....

[Zales]

Can a mod or someone please lock this thread? It went off topic then returned with the introduction of Sir Paugus into the mix, who is unenjoyable in many regards.

Also, I don't think that this should go any more out of control than it has.

[paugus]

Zales님이 먼저 게시:

Can a mod or someone please lock this thread? It went off topic then returned with the introduction of Sir Paugus into the mix, who is unenjoyable in many regards.

Also, I don't think that this should go any more out of control than it has.

It went off topic because you took it off topic. It got back on topic because I posted in response to the OP (which you wrote.) I do think it's very telling that you'd rather try to have a mod lock the thread than try to respond to what I said. You've never bothered actually examining these things you regard as truth, because the thought of being confronted with your own moral and intellectual inconsistencies is too horrifying to face.

I wonder if an alien possessing some kind of higher cognitive function landing on our planet and killing everyone because they're not (insert alien equivalent to 'sentient' here) would bother you. I mean, if we can't process or fathom life in the exact way that alien does, why does it matter if we die? I'd genuinely like an answer as to how you square all of this in your head, because it doesn't seem feasible.

[Erebus]

paugus님이 먼저 게시:

Zales님이 먼저 게시:

Can a mod or someone please lock this thread? It went off topic then returned with the introduction of Sir Paugus into the mix, who is unenjoyable in many regards.

Also, I don't think that this should go any more out of control than it has.

It went off topic because you took it off topic. It got back on topic because I posted in response to the OP (which you wrote.) I do think it's very telling that you'd rather try to have a mod lock the thread than try to respond to what I said. You've never bothered actually examining these things you regard as truth, because the thought of being confronted with your own moral and intellectual inconsistencies is too horrifying to face.

I wonder if an alien possessing some kind of higher cognitive function landing on our planet and killing everyone because they're not (insert alien equivalent to 'sentient' here) would bother you. I mean, if we can't process or fathom life in the exact way that alien does, why does it matter if we die? I'd genuinely like an answer as to how you square all of this in your head, because it doesn't seem feasible.

That would be a pretty wasteful alien, because the reason for killing is completely idiotic. Oh, they're not exactly like us, let's kill them. Enslaving humanity for resources or killing to free space for some operations - that makes more sense. Practicality is what separates a cruel man from a psycho.

[paugus]

BigDickBazuso님이 먼저 게시:

That would be a pretty wasteful alien, because the reason for killing is completely idiotic. Oh, they're not exactly like us, let's kill them. Enslaving humanity for resources or killing to free space for some operations - that makes more sense. Practicality is what separates a cruel man from a psycho.

People with an actual clinical diagnosis of psychopathy aren't completely devoid of reasoning. It's become synonymous with "lunatic" but a lack of reasoning or practicality as you call it doesn't necessarily make one a psychopath. I digress.

Isn't the reason for killing some of the enemies in the mine idiotic as well, though? Do you really need that slime bit or that bat wing? Couldn't you have just walked toward the stairs and left that slime alone? Did you have to murder that slow-moving rock crab? The reasons for killing things in Stardew Valley are paper thin, which is fine because it's a game. However, if people want to start talking about the actual morality or ethics of killing, it would serve them well to operate with a little consistency. Whether your standard is "sentience" or "at least have a good reason to kill them" is up to you, but if your standard can't be applied to everything, it's a pretty bad standard.

[Erebus]

paugus님이 먼저 게시:

BigDickBazuso님이 먼저 게시:

That would be a pretty wasteful alien, because the reason for killing is completely idiotic. Oh, they're not exactly like us, let's kill them. Enslaving humanity for resources or killing to free space for some operations - that makes more sense. Practicality is what separates a cruel man from a psycho.

People with an actual clinical diagnosis of psychopathy aren't completely devoid of reasoning. It's become synonymous with "lunatic" but a lack of reasoning or practicality as you call it doesn't necessarily make one a psychopath. I digress.

Isn't the reason for killing some of the enemies in the mine idiotic as well, though? Do you really need that slime bit or that bat wing? Couldn't you have just walked toward the stairs and left that slime alone? Did you have to murder that slow-moving rock crab? The reasons for killing things in Stardew Valley are paper thin, which is fine because it's a game. However, if people want to start talking about the actual morality or ethics of killing, it would serve them well to operate with a little consistency. Whether your standard is "sentience" or "at least have a good reason to kill them" is up to you, but if your standard can't be applied to everything, it's a pretty bad standard.

I meant 'psycho' in a collective manner, not the actual medical term (cus I'm too dumb to use those), just to paint a picture of a cackling dude with a bloody knife stabbing everyone for seemingly no reason.

I'd love not to kill anyone in the mines, I'm there for ore, not for their body parts, though. Unfortunately, they make it hard to hit rocks with pickaxe, what's with the attempts to eat me and all, so I take my sword.

[paugus]

BigDickBazuso님이 먼저 게시:

I meant 'psycho' in a collective manner, not the actual medical term (cus I'm too dumb to use those), just to paint a picture of a cackling dude with a bloody knife stabbing everyone for seemingly no reason.

I'd love not to kill anyone in the mines, I'm there for ore, not for their body parts, though. Unfortunately, they make it hard to hit rocks with pickaxe, what's with the attempts to eat me and all, so I take my sword.

Yeah, the self-defense angle. Trouble is, compare it to a burglar breaking into your house to take your stuff. He's just there for loot, not for your body parts, but unfortunately you make it hard for him to quickly steal your stuff so he brings a gun.

What if the ore belongs to the little shadow people? Is it still justifiable to murder them for resisting your attempted theft?

[Ekat]

BigDickBazuso님이 먼저 게시:

Yes, it does! But, come to think of it, those NPCs might have some loot as well.

And I've been running low on things lately.

And they don't seem to need it.

Hehe...hehehehehe....

And I see that you're very cruel, BigDickBazuso.

[Ekat]

paugus님이 먼저 게시:

Yeah, the self-defense angle. Trouble is, compare it to a burglar breaking into your house to take your stuff. He's just there for loot, not for your body parts, but unfortunately you make it hard for him to quickly steal your stuff so he brings a gun.

What if the ore belongs to the little shadow people? Is it still justifiable to murder them for resisting your attempted theft?

Very unlikely. The first part counteracts your second part. If they are combined, it doesn't make any sense to people like me. You're like, "He's just there for loot," and we're like, "We're just here for ore," and then you're like, "you make it hard for him so he gets a gun," and we're like, "the shadow people are making it hard for us so we grab a weapon," You see how they get perfectly together? So you can't blame us at all, according to your own theory.

[paugus]

EDH 0330님이 먼저 게시:

Very unlikely. The first part counteracts your second part. If they are combined, it doesn't make any sense to people like me. You're like, "He's just there for loot," and we're like, "We're just here for ore," and then you're like, "you make it hard for him so he gets a gun," and we're like, "the shadow people are making it hard for us so we grab a weapon," You see how they get perfectly together? So you can't blame us at all, according to your own theory.

Have you ever encountered an analogy before? I'm purposefully comparing the player to a burglar because the circumstances are so similar. Kinda baffled that warranted explanation.

[iamthemagicbonsaitree]

Wasn't the mine made by people? If so then the shadow brutes are the intruders, not the player.