SEED MAKER FORMULA to get ancient seeds - please help me!

[kalytu10]

*SPOILERS* The seed maker formula calculates your chances of getting an Ancient Seed when you put ANY random crop into a Seed Maker (Level 9 Farming). This is NOT based on luck, but rather on a specific calculation. I have *randomly* found several instances in which the seed maker will produce an Ancient seed at certain time, but I need help with the formula. WARNING FOR MATH RELATED THINGS!!!

[kalytu10]

Okay, for more information here:

I have an excel spreadsheet that includes the formula from the seed maker, which is (# of days played) + (Unique saveID/2) + (x location of seed maker) + 77(y location of seed maker) + (military time that crop is placed). I have several summations of examples for one day but I'm not sure what they all mean.

Basically I end up with some weird numbers, like 82000137, 82000563, etc. and I have CONFIRMED that these summations link to whatever the chance is that you will get an ancient seed when you put any random crop in the seed maker, but I don't know how.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/889888697873977127/EB4E004882DB9558F6B673F4CC44168BA0C58389/

I did see that for two separate days in game, I got the same summation for two completely different times that produced an ancient seed. The summations ended in 137 and 730.

The item ID for ancient fruit seeds is 499, I think, so that won't really relate to whatever numbers I have summed up.

In total, without the first 4 digits, the summations to produce ancient seeds randomly are:

137
563
730
553
1064
1824
1231

Can anyone make sense of this?? Thank you!

[BlackD]

i gave up on this cause its waaaaaay easier to find a seed at an artifat spot, donate it to the museum, get the recipe to craft the seeds, and a seed u can plant, raise it and put the fruit in the seed maker, get more seeds, plant them and so on.

but if u want a formula, it would only work for you and only for the save where u got it because its using ur UNIQUE savegame ID.

but anyways, ur formula is messed up. its:
(played days) + (save-ID) / 2 + (X-coordinate of seed maker) + (Y-coordinate of seed maker) × 77 + (daytime)
at least the wiki gives this formula...

[kalytu10]

Thanks for the response! I really want to give up on it too but it seems so fascinating and I know you can get a lot if you know exactly where to look. I have unfortunately been unable to find the ancient seed from artifact spots after several days of looking in the Cindersap Forest, the mountains, etc.

Can you explain why my formula is wrong? It's the same exact variables (because I did use the wiki formula, lol). I am using the x and y coordinates, but the y coordinate is multiplied by 77 and then added to everything else.

I thought that the last 4 digits would have some effect on what is chosen, but I am not sure. Do you happen to know anything about the summation that tells the game what item pops out when everything is added up?

[BlackD]

if u really cant find the seed, u could use a mod for more artifact spots and throw everythng u find in the trash can until u find the seed and delete the mod afterwards (did this with the green strange doll in the last 3 weeks of my third year.. shame on me^^)
https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/451

the formula u posted is wrong because u wrote:
...(Unique saveID/2) ... + 77(y location of seed maker)
but its:
...(save-ID) / 2 ... (Y-coordinate of seed maker) × 77
but if u used the formula from the wiki u may just reversed some stuff. or is the fomula from another wiki?^^ wiki i mean: https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Seed_Maker
and what du u mean by "military time that crop is placed"? wiki just says "time of day" ^^

i think the biggest problem is the time of day. because u have to put seeds in the seedmaker on every time of the day (and because of the coordianates on every position on the farm too) and this multiple times to see when u get the most ancient seeds.
with this mod u could freeze the time ( https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/4 )
but doing so could mess up the outcome too
and like red255 mentioned, u would need TONS of crops so maybe this COULD help:
https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/93

and most important (at least for me and the reason why i gave up on this): when does the formula take effect? when u put crops in? when the seedmaker is processing? or when its done? (because the "time of day" variable..)

small advise at the end: if u still want to try all this, dont use the cheat mods on ur main game. make a new one so u dont kill the fun of the game ;)
(i dont apologize for grammar fails btw^^)

[kalytu10]

I’ve downloaded some mods before and I don’t mind downloading Zsmapi, but I do want to try the best I can to not have mods on this play through.

I still don’t understand why my formula is incorrect, it logically follows the multiplication and addition and yields the same result.

“the formula u posted is wrong because u wrote:
...(Unique saveID/2) ... + 77(y location of seed maker)
but its:
...(save-ID) / 2 ... (Y-coordinate of seed maker) × 77”

That’s literally the same thing. The Unique save ID is the only thing that is divided by 2. Also, the Y location (aka coordinate) is the only variable multiplied by 77 (using the 77(y) is saying it’s going to be multiplied).

So unless you don’t really understand the order of operations when it comes to formulas, that response isn’t helpful at all.

Have you actually looked at my spreadsheet?? I’ve listed the EXACT time, x, y locations, and the time of day that I know FOR A FACT putting any crop into the seed maker under those conditions will produce an Ancient Seed. And you HAVE to use military time, otherwise the formula doesn’t work.

I don’t feel very much like giving up at this point because I am so close to getting an exact calculation on how to produce Ancient Seeds without wasting crops. I don’t care that you can throw 1,000 crops in a crazy amount of seed makers, I just need to find out what the summation of the formula means. It seems like no one actually understands what it means.

[kalytu10]

The formula takes effect when you place the crop in though, basically on the spreadsheet you subtract 20 minutes from the time it is produced

[kalytu10]

Escrito originalmente por red255:

Its .5% chance to get one ancient seed

I was getting roughly 5 ancient seeds per 1000 crops, was actually slightly higher than that.

1000 blueberries will produce 12000 blueberry crops.

takes around a full game day (15 minutes) to run 1000 crops thru a seed maker array. I set them up on the map near the entrance to the tunnel 30 something seed makers and just run thru them.

I didnt bother looking into the actual code to see what would give what. I do agree that the probability of what comes out is determined before you stick the seed in somehow but I didn't bother figuring it out. I just did it en-masse.

Thanks for the advice but I don’t want to give up on the formula. I have actually been able to get over 10 ancient seeds with less than 25 crops. So...yeah. Really determined to figure it out. But thanks.

[jie]

Also ancient seeds drop from bugs in cave 1-40 just spend a few days there

[titanopteryx]

You can put ancient fruit in a seed maker. I started out with a seed I got from the museum from a seed artifact from a bug in the mines. Grew it in the greenhouse. Then when I harvested it the original plant remained and I put the fruit in the seed maker. The seed maker gives 1-3 ancient fruit seeds. I planted those and I continued doing that. Once you get the first seed, and you have a seed maker, you don't need to try to get seeds from other crops, though you can if you want more right now. My greenhouse is completely full of ancient fruit except some spots for sprinklers and I have a field of them planted outside the greenhouse that I planted the first day of spring. All of that spawned from just 1 fruit from 1 seed and a seed maker. That did take over a year in game time to set up the greenhouse completely though.

[kalytu10]

Escrito originalmente por titanopteryx:

Once you get the first seed, and you have a seed maker, you don't need to try to get seeds from other crops, though you can if you want more right now.

I do want more right now, that’s kinda the point. I get that I can just wait but if I plan appropriately I can get like, 10 in one day. With 10 crops.

[titanopteryx]

Escrito originalmente por kalytu10:

Escrito originalmente por titanopteryx:

Once you get the first seed, and you have a seed maker, you don't need to try to get seeds from other crops, though you can if you want more right now.

I do want more right now, that’s kinda the point. I get that I can just wait but if I plan appropriately I can get like, 10 in one day. With 10 crops.

Well here's some information. The randomness might be tied to time. I use a mod that gives me the ability to freeze time. So I freeze time and start feeding ancient fruit into the seed maker and I keep getting 1 seed. So I unfreeze time and leave the greenhouse and start collecting my chicken eggs. Then I go back and feed the seed maker more fruit with the time frozen again and it keeps giving me 3 seeds. Technically they could have been improbable luck streaks, but the random number generater that determines the seed amount might use time as its seed.

[Howru]

Now, reread what written in wiki:

The game initializes a pseudo-random number generator with calculated seed:

Numbers that you get from calculations - it's seeds for generator, that will return probablity to get ancient seed.

ELIT5:

Random number generation will create line of numbers between 0 and 100.
Lets say this random number chai looks like - 5,48,96,3,5,11,31, ...
If number is higher than 94 - you will get Ancient Seed.

Numbers that you get from calculations means that game will take result from position 137, 563, 730 in this chain. And this number will determine if you get Ancient Seed or not.


Now, in game it's actually much more complex implementation.
If you want to know more - read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator


TLDR - this numbers are seeds for random generator, not probabilities to get result.

P.S. The "seed" that mentioned in wiki is "random seed" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_seed
Not Stardew Valley seed)

[HuFu]

haha

[kalytu10]

Escrito originalmente por Howru:

Random number generation will create line of numbers between 0 and 100.
Lets say this random number chai looks like - 5,48,96,3,5,11,31, ...
If number is higher than 94 - you will get Ancient Seed.

Numbers that you get from calculations means that game will take result from position 137, 563, 730 in this chain. And this number will determine if you get Ancient Seed or not.


Now, in game it's actually much more complex implementation.
If you want to know more - read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator


TLDR - this numbers are seeds for random generator, not probabilities to get result.

P.S. The "seed" that mentioned in wiki is "random seed" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_seed
Not Stardew Valley seed)

Okay, that makes a lot of sense, thank you for the feedback and the PRNG info.

How would you suggest I use the random seed to reproduce those results? Is it possible, or is it too much to work with trying to calculate variables?

[kalytu10]

Escrito originalmente por titanopteryx:

Escrito originalmente por kalytu10:

I do want more right now, that’s kinda the point. I get that I can just wait but if I plan appropriately I can get like, 10 in one day. With 10 crops.

Well here's some information. The randomness might be tied to time. I use a mod that gives me the ability to freeze time. So I freeze time and start feeding ancient fruit into the seed maker and I keep getting 1 seed. So I unfreeze time and leave the greenhouse and start collecting my chicken eggs. Then I go back and feed the seed maker more fruit with the time frozen again and it keeps giving me 3 seeds. Technically they could have been improbable luck streaks, but the random number generater that determines the seed amount might use time as its seed.

It does use time. Check the formula for the seed maker probabilities. I don’t want to use a mod. Thanks.