Quick question about plot near the end (spoilers, obviously)

[BeastBox]

So I just finished this after a bit of a visual novel binge and I'm mostly padding text so there's no spoilers in the hover. :) But while the game seems pretty strong as far as internal consistency goes, I did have one question, and it's a bit hard to do searches for plot holes when there's just as much chatter online about the game as the anime, so I don't know if this is answered or not ...

At the end, why does deleting the original D-email from the Echelon database in the present cause a timeline shift? That should only happen if they do something in the past, so if they could keep the email from ever getting detected in the first place, then I get it. Deleting it directly, two weeks later, in the current day should only result in them not having that record anymore ... there's still people hunting and aware of them that have already been dispatched. It's not a D-mail, it's not a time leap ... it's just changing a database entry. That shouldn't do jack to timelines or divergence or literally anything.

[Lynx_gnt]

This is just my theory.
This is a small S;G0 spoiler but switch in timeline happends if your current actions results in certain group getting access to time machine in future and start changing the past.
So, first d-mail was a special one. The fact that it comes from future was not enough, as this can be just an error. It contained very specific information about certain event, that happend later. It cannot be just a mistake or a joke. Thus this d-mail cannot be just canceled, It needed to be completely removed.
Cancelling Moeka d-mail he postponed the chase after him for unknown amount of time. But existence of this d-mail in database WILL lead SERN after Okabe and others.

[Sorin]

My question is how the first D-email gets sent in the first place; what makes it 'special'?

[Lynx_gnt]

It was an accident, Okabe send mail at the same time when the discharge in the lab occurred.
And it is special because when that mail was noticed, it confirmed (for SERN) that working time-travel technology exist and lead them to Okabe, Kurisu and Daru.

[Sorin]

Ok, but how was the phone and the microwave already linked together.

Originally posted by Lynx_gnt:

This is just my theory.
So, first d-mail was a special one. The fact that it comes from future was not enough, as this can be just an error. It contained very specific information about certain event, that happend later. It cannot be just a mistake or a joke. Thus this d-mail cannot be just canceled, It needed to be completely removed.

I doubt SERN has a system for filtering these types of messages, as people send messages prophesying events on a daily basis.

[BeastBox]

The game is pretty clear that SERN picked up on the timestamp, nothing more. Which I can buy for the sake of storytelling. :) There was nothing else special about the email; that it happened to go through while Daru was doing stuff with the PhoneWave (name subject to change) is just random luck.

I still don't get how removing the email in the present moment changes the past, though. Yeah, they completely removed it, but so what. By then the damage had been done, and people were aware and officially moving on that information. It existed elsewhere than the database by that point, and even if it didn't, it still wouldn't have triggered a shift in worldlines. The whole point is you change the past to do that, not the present. :p

[Sorin]

I thought it was also the timestamp until

Originally posted by Lynx_gnt:

It contained very specific information about certain event, that happend later. It cannot be just a mistake or a joke.

[Kawaiian Pizza]

Doing something in the present because of knowledge obtained from the future would change the timeline. Time leaping and sending D-mails has the same effect, the only difference is that D-mails can have a greater impact based on time/the butterfly effect.
If he were to send a D-mail to the past saying to delete the message it would do the same thing as time leaping into the past to do it himself.

The knowledge from the future causing him to take specific actions has the save effect as a D-mail. The reason why just saying hi to someone different after time leaping doesnt cause reading steiner to activate or anything is because its too small a change. Deleting his first D-mail is a massive event change which was enough to swap worldlines.

[BeastBox]

Originally posted by Kawaiian Pizza:

Doing something in the present because of knowledge obtained from the future would change the timeline.

Well, yeah, Every time Okabe did literally anything after a time leap, he was doing something in the present because of knowledge obtained from the future. That's why he did it. :) Which changes the timeline .... in the present. I'm still baffled as to why this particular action caused a change in the past, like a D-mail.

Originally posted by Kawaiian Pizza:

If he were to send a D-mail to the past saying to delete the message it would do the same thing as time leaping into the past to do it himself.

I could buy him sending a D-mail to not send the original mail (deleting it is pointless, because SERN intercepts them in transit ... I rather doubt it watches your inbox :p). I could only buy that if I also buy that the contents was important, otherwise you couldn't send a D-mail that DIDN'T trigger SERN's watchdog. If there's a line of dialogue in the game that I missed which explicitly says that the contents of the email are important, I'd like to know that. I'm fairly certain it's only stated that the date is what triggered it.

Originally posted by Kawaiian Pizza:

The knowledge from the future causing him to take specific actions has the save effect as a D-mail.

Er, what? As I stated above, that would mean he would have the same effect as a D-mail whenever he did literally anything. Explain to me the direct connection between him deleting an email from a database in the present, and SERN's database being altered in the past. Don't just say "knowledge"; you aren't Tai Lopez. XD

[Wyrtt]

1. I thought they earsed d mail from the past combining hacking and timemachine fuction?
2. First D-mail was important because SERN watched any suspisious activity regarding time travel as they already worked on it and feared that other could or did outdone them.

Sending another d mail to delete d mail would not solve core issue of ANY d mail existing at all,

[BeastBox]

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

I thought they earsed d mail from the past combining hacking and timemachine fuction?

Nope. They log in and hit delete, like every server admin likely does daily with zero impact on the timeline whatsoever. In the present, and everything. Hence my confusion.

Accessing the server doesn't share anything with D-mail or time leaping. Those two things happen under very specific circumstances which don't seem to involve server access in any way. I mean, look at all the hoops they had to jump through just to send a pager message. :p

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

Sending another d mail to delete d mail would not solve core issue of ANY d mail existing at all,

That was my impression, but some of them are saying the contents also matter. Which I don't recall ever being mentioned in-game.

[Kawaiian Pizza]

Originally posted by BeastBox:

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

I thought they earsed d mail from the past combining hacking and timemachine fuction?

Nope. They log in and hit delete, like every server admin likely does daily with zero impact on the timeline whatsoever. In the present, and everything. Hence my confusion.

Accessing the server doesn't share anything with D-mail or time leaping. Those two things happen under very specific circumstances which don't seem to involve server access in any way. I mean, look at all the hoops they had to jump through just to send a pager message. :p

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

Sending another d mail to delete d mail would not solve core issue of ANY d mail existing at all,

That was my impression, but some of them are saying the contents also matter. Which I don't recall ever being mentioned in-game.

i could have sworn they mentioned something about screening the contents for stuff that would eventually happen...

[Lynx_gnt]

Originally posted by BeastBox:

If there's a line of dialogue in the game that I missed which explicitly says that the contents of the email are important, I'd like to know that. I'm fairly certain it's only stated that the date is what triggered it.

I don't think that there was anything straightforwardly said about this, but i want add some details to my idea that only timestamp and content together are important.
First chapter: Okabe accidentaly send a d-mail. It was noticed for a wrong timestamp because there are looking for such kind of suspicious activity (was mentioned in game). In the message Okabe said, that he JUST witnessed Kurisu's death. So SERN identified that someone knew that she will die a week before it happened. That was enought for them to prove that working time travel technology exist, develop it in the future, help themselves in the past and thus switch WL beta to WL alpha. And until this d-mail in database, it points at Okabe and holds current active WL in alpha field.
Messages that were send during story: they didnt tell anything specific about future events.
Last chapter: there were several D-mails, but none of them switched active WL from beta to alpha. "Look at the news" - nothing, because this is not something suspicious. ND-mail (video) - it cannot be deciphered. The D-mail that was send when Kurisu was unconcious also switched everything to SG world line instead of alpha, because its content was not confirmed later.

[BeastBox]

Originally posted by Lynx_gnt:

Messages that were send during story: they didnt tell anything specific about future events.

Literally the second D-mail they sent was lottery numbers. :)

In any case, whether you accept the contents are important or not, that's still not relevant to why an action in the present causes a timeline shift in the past. Even if events in the future based on that database influence the past, most of this game breaks the idea of that causality all the time (otherwise, Okabe wouldn't be able to maintain memories of Mayuri dying over and over that never actually happened) so that still doesn't work.

[VOLIN RABBAH]

Originally posted by BeastBox:

Originally posted by Lynx_gnt:

Messages that were send during story: they didnt tell anything specific about future events.

Literally the second D-mail they sent was lottery numbers. :)

In any case, whether you accept the contents are important or not, that's still not relevant to why an action in the present causes a timeline shift in the past. Even if events in the future based on that database influence the past, most of this game breaks the idea of that causality all the time (otherwise, Okabe wouldn't be able to maintain memories of Mayuri dying over and over that never actually happened) so that still doesn't work.

You are making it far more confusing then it is. It`s pretty simple, with tha message deleted from Sern`s data, there is no dystopia nor Suzuha going back in time. Without that fisical time travel involving Suzuha, Nakabachi`s presentation is not cancelled and Kurisu is killed. The problem is that because of this Kurisu should be already dead by the moment they delete the d mail, so the worldline MUST change. Also, there is no worldline on the Alpha Attractor Field that doesn`t has the Sern dystopia in the future, so by deleting that message the worldline would have to change to a worldline from the Beta Attractor field anyway. As for casuality, there are recent studies showing that it might not even exist in first place, so don`t consider it when analysing sci fi unless that story explicitly tells that it exists in said universe. And reading steiner kind exists to cheat over casuality, so it might exist in S;G`s universe without being broken.

[VOLIN RABBAH]

Originally posted by BeastBox:

Originally posted by Lynx_gnt:

Messages that were send during story: they didnt tell anything specific about future events.

Literally the second D-mail they sent was lottery numbers. :)

In any case, whether you accept the contents are important or not, that's still not relevant to why an action in the present causes a timeline shift in the past. Even if events in the future based on that database influence the past, most of this game breaks the idea of that causality all the time (otherwise, Okabe wouldn't be able to maintain memories of Mayuri dying over and over that never actually happened) so that still doesn't work.

Also, if i`m not mistaken calsuality doesn`t really aply to Steins;Gate because the Worldline changes to correct itself everytime there is some kind of odd change.