Falk's companion conversations

[Icedfate]

after returning his weapon to him, I now have the option to recruit him as a follower..cool

so
first, I asked for a reward
Falk doesn't like that

okay

reload, and don't ask for reward. . .


moving on, he asks me if I ever killed someone, stating that he wants to use my answer to determine whether or not I am a liar.

I say yes ,
Falk doesn't like that.
he wants me to tell the truth and when I do, he says " I should hate you for that" and his attitude goes down

I say no,
Falk doesn't like that, he immediately says "that is a lie" and I lose attidude

so damned if I do, damned if I don't? no matter what I say, he doesn't like it?

[Arden]

Pretty much. I skip the whole line of asking him about the clerics. You gain nothing from it.

[manegarm]

Exhausting the dialogoptions isn't always a good thing. You will experience that with some npcs

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

And what do you fear?

If you cannot please him this time, why does that trouble you? Keep playing. Try to act in ways he will like, if it is a big deal for you.

[manegarm]

D'amarr is right. You will still get enough chances to please him, to become "a true friend".

[ZZZZZ]

falk is dumb anyway

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by The_Unknown_05:

falk is dumb anyway

What would make him dumb? Could it be that you've not learned about his background?

[ZZZZZ]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by The_Unknown_05:

falk is dumb anyway

What would make him dumb? Could it be that you've not learned about his background?

I mean as companian xD unless he has a flamethrower

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

And what do you fear?

If you cannot please him this time, why does that trouble you? Keep playing. Try to act in ways he will like, if it is a big deal for you.

I fear nothing, I just found it annoying that there are dialogue options where every answer is "The wrong" answer.

I'm still using him. he "respects" me.
so, far, I only got one opportunity to raise it, in the domed city, when the guy asks me if I supported the clerics locking it down, I'm supposed to say "yes" apparently...even though I think it's not okay what they are doing, but meh, it's not forcing me to join them and I was still able to hand over the fake ID

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Your way of playing this game escapes me. You are supposed to role-play Jax. Why would you answer "Yes", if you role-play a Jax who doesn't support the clerics?

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Your way of playing this game escapes me. You are supposed to role-play Jax. Why would you answer "Yes", if you role-play a Jax who doesn't support the clerics?

really? it "escapes" you? is it really that difficult to conceive that someone might want to try and give the responses that lead to the best possible results?
how do you know the "correct" way to play an open world game?

besides. . in a "Role play" sense, I could justify it . because maybe Jax knows Falk is a cleric and he wants Falk to stay loyal so perhaps, he "lies" and says he supports the clerics just to keep Falk happy, even though he plans to join the berserkers later. . .

[Icedfate]

and you say i'm not "role playing" properly.

how about this.
during the quest to get the 6 parts from the converter
there is an npc outside that is holding 3 of the pieces and he absolutely will not give them to you under any circumstances. you can try to convince him but it ultimately leads to you fighting and killing him and Jax's coldness increases. Jax is never given a persuasion option. no "suggestion" option. no "charisma" option. no option to try and bribe him. only demand the parts and then get attaacked.

the only way to end this peacefully is to get the pickpocket skill and then succeed on 3 consecutive attempts to steal the parts from him (easier said than done).
if you fail a pickpocket attempt, he goes hostile and you are forced to kill him.

all it seems to do is change the dialogue when you turn in the quest. Jax will comment on whether the guy died or not and the other guy will comment that
say " i guess the guy's curse caught up to him" or "i guess he was afraid we would exile him, don't worrry, i will send someone to bring him back"

you don't get any additional reward for the "peaceful" resolution.
in fact, from a power gamer perspective, it seems better to kill the guy as he gives xp and loot.
but I chose the peaceful route because I felt that it was nicer to not kill the guy and try to make the beserkers more happier...and I guess I didn't want my cold to increase.

so I could spin it, that I was trying to role play a decent guy that doesn't just murder people in cold blood just to get a quest item from them.

but I suppose you could spin it, that I'm still power gaming, because I reloaded my save several times, scumming pickpocket attempts in an attempt to game the system and avoid getting a coldness decrease, while trying to get the best possible response from my chosen faction. . .


but my point is that it annoys me that the dialogues gave you no other option. they only give an option that has bad results and no other option.


and yes, I know there isn't much point in complaining about something in a PB game. this game actually has the best dialogue sequences I've seen in a PB title. better than risen 1 and 2. (I own risen 3, but have not played it yet)

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

really? it "escapes" you? is it really that difficult to conceive that someone might want to try and give the responses that lead to the best possible results?
how do you know the "correct" way to play an open world game?

This is not about "correct" or "best" results. I don't care whether you try to please Falk as often as possible without any other goal. But (1) you question the choices given to you and (2) you choose something although you don't agree with it, because (3) your only focus is on getting "Falk likes that" pop up on the screen. That is what I consider highly questionable, and that is why I comment on it.

Originally posted by Icedfate:

besides. . in a "Role play" sense, I could justify it .

Good. That is what the game is all about. It takes a lot to p*ss off a companion. Why would you play a spineless Jax when in fact you prefer playing a benevolent, friendly, honest Jax?

Originally posted by Icedfate:

because maybe Jax knows Falk is a cleric and he wants Falk to stay loyal so perhaps, he "lies" and says he supports the clerics just to keep Falk happy, even though he plans to join the berserkers later. . .

That is an option, of course. But then just do it. What are you afraid of? And why make a big fuss about it here?

Originally posted by Icedfate:

how about this.
during the quest to get the 6 parts from the converter

This is another case of "why does that trouble you?". A benevolent Jax would help Korin and let him complete his mission. Jax doesn't need to steal the parts from him, and Jax doesn't need to threaten him or kill him either. There is no problem whatsoever. Only if you insist on Jax being the one to take the six parts to Jora. In that case you may need to let Jax act like an a**hole and get rid of Korin. Cold increase included. In ELEX you get options to influence some of Jax's behavior and actions, not countless options that would cover every thought any player might have. And yes, just because some conversations offer options for special abilities like Suggestion or high skill ranks in Charisma/Combat/Survival/Crafting or Intimidation, does not imply that such checks exist in every conversation tree. You get some options, and sometimes that means you must pick the lesser evil. It's not the end of the world and not the end of the game either.

And yes, there are players, who accept the outcome of a failed attempt at picking pockets. You may prefer save scumming in order to end up with what you consider "best", but apparently you are upset about cases that don't satisfy you.

Originally posted by Icedfate:

so I could spin it, that I was trying to role play a decent guy that doesn't just murder people in cold blood just to get a quest item from them.

That is possible indeed. Yet the berserkers are rather ruthless, and your posts indicate that you won't like that, because Jax is the one who is expected to retrieve the machine parts, and if Jax lets Korin return the parts, some berserkers won't be happy about that. You would need to learn to accept that. It's not a problem for Jax, but what about you?

Originally posted by Icedfate:

but my point is that it annoys me that the dialogues gave you no other option. they only give an option that has bad results and no other option.

Limited choices are quite the norm for CRPGs. This is not tabletop with extra freedom given by a human DM.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

(I own risen 3, but have not played it yet)

One good thing about Risen 3 is all the dry humor because of a nameless anti-hero and story reasons.

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by Icedfate:

really? it "escapes" you? is it really that difficult to conceive that someone might want to try and give the responses that lead to the best possible results?
how do you know the "correct" way to play an open world game?

This is not about "correct" or "best" results. I don't care whether you try to please Falk as often as possible without any other goal. But (1) you question the choices given to you and (2) you choose something although you don't agree with it, because (3) your only focus is on getting "Falk likes that" pop up on the screen. That is what I consider highly questionable, and that is why I comment on it.

Originally posted by Icedfate:

besides. . in a "Role play" sense, I could justify it .

Good. That is what the game is all about. It takes a lot to p*ss off a companion. Why would you play a spineless Jax when in fact you prefer playing a benevolent, friendly, honest Jax?

Originally posted by Icedfate:

because maybe Jax knows Falk is a cleric and he wants Falk to stay loyal so perhaps, he "lies" and says he supports the clerics just to keep Falk happy, even though he plans to join the berserkers later. . .

That is an option, of course. But then just do it. What are you afraid of? And why make a big fuss about it here?

Originally posted by Icedfate:

how about this.
during the quest to get the 6 parts from the converter

This is another case of "why does that trouble you?". A benevolent Jax would help Korin and let him complete his mission. Jax doesn't need to steal the parts from him, and Jax doesn't need to threaten him or kill him either. There is no problem whatsoever. Only if you insist on Jax being the one to take the six parts to Jora. In that case you may need to let Jax act like an a**hole and get rid of Korin. Cold increase included. In ELEX you get options to influence some of Jax's behavior and actions, not countless options that would cover every thought any player might have. And yes, just because some conversations offer options for special abilities like Suggestion or high skill ranks in Charisma/Combat/Survival/Crafting or Intimidation, does not imply that such checks exist in every conversation tree. You get some options, and sometimes that means you must pick the lesser evil. It's not the end of the world and not the end of the game either.

And yes, there are players, who accept the outcome of a failed attempt at picking pockets. You may prefer save scumming in order to end up with what you consider "best", but apparently you are upset about cases that don't satisfy you.

Originally posted by Icedfate:

so I could spin it, that I was trying to role play a decent guy that doesn't just murder people in cold blood just to get a quest item from them.

That is possible indeed. Yet the berserkers are rather ruthless, and your posts indicate that you won't like that, because Jax is the one who is expected to retrieve the machine parts, and if Jax lets Korin return the parts, some berserkers won't be happy about that. You would need to learn to accept that. It's not a problem for Jax, but what about you?

Originally posted by Icedfate:

but my point is that it annoys me that the dialogues gave you no other option. they only give an option that has bad results and no other option.

Limited choices are quite the norm for CRPGs. This is not tabletop with extra freedom given by a human DM.

I feel like you have not comprehended 90% of what I wrote. . .

[Icedfate]

this isn't a debate about the morality of choosing one action over another in a video game.
this is my annoyance of a couple of particular situations where you as a player are given the illusion of choice, but all choices lead to the same result.


as to the situation with the guy at the converter. I was not given the option to "let him have the pieces and finish the mission himself". I was tasked with a quest to get 6 machine parts. that guy had 3 of them and would not negotiate. so unless I wanted to just "abandon" the quest, leaving it unfinished. I only had the option to fight and kill him for the parts or steal them.

as for falk's "did not like that" responses, I have since discovere there are many opportunities to raise it back up. completing his personal quest pretty much maxes him out.


I take issue with you saying "it escapes me why you would pick an option you are morally opposed to , just to get a better reward"
I'm like really? it "escapes" you? perhaps I'm misinterpreting your turn of phrase. I took that to mean, that you couldn't understand why a player would want to explore all the options in a video game, looking for the best outcome. players do that all the frigging time!
and then you say how i'm "supposed to" role play the character. which basically, you are telling me i'm playing the game wrong.

If I played through multiple times, I would obviously then make different decisions to get different outcomes. I just chose not to wait until my second and third playthroughs and instead reloaded a save a couple of times to see what all the different outcomes were.
like, you never saw a player do that? it is inconceivable to you?


if I was "Role playing" Jax according to my own values IRL, as you say i'm "supposed" to be doing, then I would never join a faction because I think they are all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. i'm assuming (i could be wrong) that the game makes you choose a faction to advance the story. you can't go factionless forever.
so, I looked at what each faction had to offer and decided that I want to join the beserkers on my first playthrough , to get access to their magic. now you may thing this is the wrong way to play, as i'm basing my faction decision on what that faction has to offer me and not basing it on whether or not I agree with their ideology.
but I could argue back that many people in the game world might also join a particular faction for the same reasons.
many members of each faction don't fully agree with the ideology of their own faction, but remain in their faction anyway for the benefits. they toe the line, follow the rules and do what they need to do to keep their superiors happy, so why I am wrong to do the same thing?

I dunno how it is so inconceivable that Jax might use his own reasoning to figure out what to say to each particular faction and just tell them what they want to hear, whether or not he agrees with their ideas or not, because he just wants the benefits they have to offer.
from a "role play" perspective, I think it's plausible.

I also like Falk, and want to have him as a companion, but he's a cleric. I'm not sure if I can actually join the beserkers and have a cleric as a companion or if their will be a clash of personalities there.. .
I'm also not sure I should keep falk because he seem OP at times, when he chooses to use his flamethrower, he can pretty much stunlock any enemy. I guess it balances out on the all too often occasions when he switches to melee mode and goes all Leeroy Jenkins or just fails to realize i'm even in combat and just runs behind me while i'm rolling around trying to avoid getting hit. . .

but Duras sux. .and I know stuff about him now. . .
I could use the crony unit, that guy is kind of cool.