Wow, really? Story f*cked because cold too high?

[Capricorn Anomaly]

I suppose I'm an idiot for downing potions like crazy and boosting attribute/skill points which increases the cold value, but man..... I think I just lost my will to finish the game. Currently talked to Thorald and I am forced to side with the Hybrid in the dialogue options, can't even pick what I want..... which was "We must kill the Hybrid to save Magalan". Nope, had to side with Hybrid. Like what the f*ck?? What if I wanted to be cold but said f*ck the Hybrid? Makes no sense but whatever. Completely killed the game for me, after putting in over 80 hours I'm stuck with this bullsh*t? *sigh*

[phantommail]

Originally posted by All You Need Is Kill:

Originally posted by phantommail:

Lolwut ? Coldness level describes your decisions in the game.
Just go and pick green red or blue donut (ME3 style ) is better ?

And these decisions do not exactly match what Jax eventually chooses. He gets points for some phrases and remarks, and then on the basis of coldness makes a completely opposite choice.
Yes, it's better to choose between green and red than the whole game to maintain a minimum of coldness, stock up on the elex and watch all three finals.

Not only for phrases. For actions too.
You can play the game again to see different ending or use youtube omg.
Ending based on some scale is better than just "go and pick your donut ".

[Singrave]

COOL STORY, BRO!
lol

[krampe]

Originally posted by Duncan:

During his talk with Wardek, Jax clearly states that he wants to talk to hybrid and see hybrid can still evolve. He hasn't made his mind up about hybrid's fate, because killing hybrid is purely an emotional act, Jax kills hybrid to stop hybrid from tormenting the world and the people. What logical reason would Jax have to kill otherwise? None. The hybrid didn't betray Jax, he doesn't threaten Jax, and Jax doesn't care about the fate of the free people or even albs as he has no empathy. He goes into the ice palace to get his questions answered and that's it.

Well i think killing the Hybrid is far from emotional, because he is clearly mentally unstable or better totally insane with a messiah complex. The human being the Hybrid once was had the task to save mankind by escaping the impact into space with a rocket. Which somehow failed, leaving him hiding isolated in a bunker where he was affected by the Elex mutating into the Hybrid. Still obsessed with the idea to save all mankind in the future because he couldn't do it in the past.
It's only logical to assume that he become totally a.p.e.s.h.i.t.

[Duncan]

Originally posted by krampe:

Originally posted by Duncan:

During his talk with Wardek, Jax clearly states that he wants to talk to hybrid and see hybrid can still evolve. He hasn't made his mind up about hybrid's fate, because killing hybrid is purely an emotional act, Jax kills hybrid to stop hybrid from tormenting the world and the people. What logical reason would Jax have to kill otherwise? None. The hybrid didn't betray Jax, he doesn't threaten Jax, and Jax doesn't care about the fate of the free people or even albs as he has no empathy. He goes into the ice palace to get his questions answered and that's it.

Well i think killing the Hybrid is far from emotional, because he is clearly mentally unstable or better totally insane with a messiah complex. The human being the Hybrid once was had the task to save mankind by escaping the impact into space with a rocket. Which somehow failed, leaving him hiding isolated in a bunker where he was affected by the Elex mutating into the Hybrid. Still obsessed with the idea to save all mankind in the future because he couldn't do it in the past.
It's only logical to assume that he become totally a.p.e.s.h.i.t.

The second part of the game would prove if hybrid went crazy or not, but Caja's report on elex actually proves hybrid says the truth, magalan is really in great danger, and hybrid may be the only one who could save it.

[Swizz1st]

Originally posted by phantommail:

Originally posted by All You Need Is Kill:

And these decisions do not exactly match what Jax eventually chooses. He gets points for some phrases and remarks, and then on the basis of coldness makes a completely opposite choice.
Yes, it's better to choose between green and red than the whole game to maintain a minimum of coldness, stock up on the elex and watch all three finals.

Not only for phrases. For actions too.
You can play the game again to see different ending or use youtube omg.
Ending based on some scale is better than just "go and pick your donut ".

Yeah like Divinity Original Sin 2. Just Save at the end and Reloading for all different ending.. Very boring. Or Deus Ex Human Revolution.. lulwut.

[lnomsim]

Originally posted by phantommail:

Originally posted by All You Need Is Kill:

The ending is affected only by coldness, not by decisions in the game. This is certainly a very weak point.

Lolwut ? Coldness level describes your decisions in the game.
Just go and pick green red or blue donut (ME3 style ) is better ?

Lolwut ? Those dialog options have, most of the time, no effect on the endding, they mostly give bonus rewards.

You can have a prgmatic endgame in ME1 with close to no prgmatisme, I know, I did.

[phantommail]

Originally posted by lnomsim:

Originally posted by phantommail:

Lolwut ? Coldness level describes your decisions in the game.
Just go and pick green red or blue donut (ME3 style ) is better ?

Lolwut ? Those dialog options have, most of the time, no effect on the endding, they mostly give bonus rewards.

You can have a prgmatic endgame in ME1 with close to no prgmatisme, I know, I did.

What endings ? What rewards ? Diid you even understand what i said ?

[krampe]

Originally posted by Duncan:

The second part of the game would prove if hybrid went crazy or not, but Caja's report on elex actually proves hybrid says the truth, magalan is really in great danger, and hybrid may be the only one who could save it.

Yeah ELEX 2 will probably reveal it but Caja's report doesn't prove anything except that Elex affects your brain and can make you hear voices like the dreams the Hybrid experienced with dangerous side effects on your health. Mentally and in general (don't give her mana)
The Hybrind is dangerous, doesn't care for individual lifes, is only interesed in his mad vision and has approved the attempted murder of Jax (the Hybrids knows all). There is literally not the slightest evidence to back up his crazy claim only counterarguments.

The only logical solution is to kill him.
(But i couldn't because i was too cold, a major letdown! Effectivly keeping me away of a second playthrough.)

[Duncan]

Originally posted by krampe:

Yeah ELEX 2 will probably reveal it but Caja's report doesn't prove anything except that Elex affects your brain and can make you hear voices like the dreams the Hybrid experienced with dangerous side effects on your health.

No, her report states that ELEX actually bears information in it, and it is able to communicate with people who have apropriate training/ability, like Hybrid, Caja, and probably Thorald. Both Caja and Hybrid mention that ELEX was sent to magalan on purpose, so if it was just causing hallucinations, it should've been identical ones, which never happens. Yes, hybrid is not a lunatic, he is just too emotionless.

Originally posted by krampe:

The Hybrind is dangerous, doesn't care for individual lifes, is only interesed in his mad vision and has approved the attempted murder of Jax (the Hybrids knows all).

Exactly like albs. But albs have no empathy, they don't care if someone dies, so in their vision killing the hybrid isn't logical at all.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Why would anyone ignore the story, ignore all the coldness increase warnings, possibly get locked out of the emotional conversation options due to high coldness level and still wonder about the end? Consuming Elex is introduced with a big fat warning early.

Since it's possible to keep playing after the end, not even 200 Elex Drinks brought me up to more than neutral - and that's from an unknown value higher than 10. And one doesn't simply can pick them up somewhere, one needs to craft them by buying from merchants, who restock their small amounts of Natural Elex after every trade.

[krampe]

Originally posted by Duncan:

No, her report states that ELEX actually bears information in it, and it is able to communicate with people who have apropriate training/ability, like Hybrid, Caja, and probably Thorald. Both Caja and Hybrid mention that ELEX was sent to magalan on purpose, so if it was just causing hallucinations, it should've been identical ones, which never happens. Yes, hybrid is not a lunatic, he is just too emotionless.

Same drug similar effect, try out 2CB and you will get geometrical, 70 years wallpaper like, visual hallucinations.
It happens, always.

Thorald clearly stated that the "talking elix" is nonsense and it never happend to him in all his years.

Originally posted by Duncan:

Exactly like albs. But albs have no empathy, they don't care if someone dies, so in their vision killing the hybrid isn't logical at all.

The Alps Vision is the Hybrids Vision, that is no argument and of course killing himself doen't fit that selfrightous maniac. You can't prove a cause by mentioning one of it symptoms.

[All You Need Is Kill]

Originally posted by Duncan:

During his talk with Wardek, Jax clearly states that he wants to talk to hybrid and see hybrid can still evolve. He hasn't made his mind up about hybrid's fate, because killing hybrid is purely an emotional act, Jax kills hybrid to stop hybrid from tormenting the world and the people. What logical reason would Jax have to kill otherwise? None. The hybrid didn't betray Jax, he doesn't threaten Jax, and Jax doesn't care about the fate of the free people or even albs as he has no empathy. He goes into the ice palace to get his questions answered and that's it.

God, I've already written a lot of logical reasons to kill a hybrid many times. He does not care about the fate of the Albs and other people, only his own. How did this hybrid not betray Jax if he knows everything? Jax specifically framed. He did not fail the mission, as Torald said after the fall of his mission had just begun.[/quote]

Originally posted by Duncan:

No, albs started to serve the hybrid as soon as they discovered him, they couldn't have been chipped back then. Your words that the service is based purely on chips is just an assumption. Albs always served the directive, they wanted to evolve, hybrid promised them the opportunity, chips became needed much later when some albs started to doubt the hybrid.

This is not an assumption but a fact. Albs wanted evolve, but serving a hybrid they only degraded. Many people began to understand this, so the Separatists. The only reason why this did not happen massively is chip. The game clearly says that when choosing the "cold" is not worth serving the Hybrid, Kallax is inclined to agree with Jax, but can not because of the chip. So do not control the Hybrid of the albas directly through the chips and it would have been rejected long ago. Service to him has nothing to do with logic. He did not plan any evolution and development for the Albs, only for himself.

Originally posted by Duncan:

I have no idea as I haven't even played the cold way.

Typically, you did not play the cold way, but with the air of a connoisseur, you talk about how "cold" Jax thinks.
So I'll tell you. The survival of Kallax in battle is also based solely on the coldness of Jax. How is this reasonable? The blows and shots of the "cold" Jax are more deadly?
Ray's survival after a suicidal attack is also based solely on Jax's coldness. How will Jax's emotionality help him survive?
This is absolutely ridiculous system. The idea of a scale different from good and evil is interesting, the realization is terrible.

Originally posted by Duncan:

But basically, the way I see it, your complaints are very akin to some KotOR (1 or 2) player who played the whole game making evil choices, and then complaining why his evil character becomes a sith. I mean, look at Darth Vader, he was evil too, but in the end he turned to the light side! This is how RPGs are made, just deal with it.

This is the most common morality in the style of Star Wars. In KOTOR, it is exactly the same. The choice of the side in this game only affects bonuses and penalties to the appropriate abilities of the Force. The player can at any time make the opposite choice. Including the ending. Nothing to do with the ELEX system.

Originally posted by Duncan:

Unlocking every possible ending for every possible character brings more harm than good from both story point of view and RPG mechanics.

Oh yes? But ELEX has such a system. It is necessary only throughout the game stay emotional. Then you can save in front of the entrance to the ice palace, taking Elex, increase the coldness and you can watch all three possible endings.

[willakadirk1]

i was a bit too high on cold also and didnt figure out later that cold represents machine like and follower of the hybrid..NOT good bad/evil or right wrong in a way.

[Duncan]

Originally posted by All You Need Is Kill:

Originally posted by Duncan:

During his talk with Wardek, Jax clearly states that he wants to talk to hybrid and see hybrid can still evolve. He hasn't made his mind up about hybrid's fate, because killing hybrid is purely an emotional act, Jax kills hybrid to stop hybrid from tormenting the world and the people. What logical reason would Jax have to kill otherwise? None. The hybrid didn't betray Jax, he doesn't threaten Jax, and Jax doesn't care about the fate of the free people or even albs as he has no empathy. He goes into the ice palace to get his questions answered and that's it.

God, I've already written a lot of logical reasons to kill a hybrid many times. He does not care about the fate of the Albs and other people, only his own. How did this hybrid not betray Jax if he knows everything? Jax specifically framed. He did not fail the mission, as Torald said after the fall of his mission had just begun.

What logical reasons? Do you even realize "hybrid doesn't care about albs" is not a fact, this is what the SEPARATISTS think of the hybrid? Hybrid is objectively a person and a superweapon who theoretically can be the only one to save magalan. Stop treating separatists propaganda as the objective truth. Just watch this screenshot, see the 2 bottom lines that Jax says? http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1196842511 Does he sound like a separatist? No, he doesn't, because he isn't one. You, as a player, support the separatists, you, as a player want cold Jax to join their cause, but you are not ingame Jax, you're just a player, he has his own views and intentions since he isn't a blank state character. How hard it is to understand?

Originally posted by All You Need Is Kill:

Originally posted by Duncan:

No, albs started to serve the hybrid as soon as they discovered him, they couldn't have been chipped back then. Your words that the service is based purely on chips is just an assumption. Albs always served the directive, they wanted to evolve, hybrid promised them the opportunity, chips became needed much later when some albs started to doubt the hybrid.

This is not an assumption but a fact. Albs wanted evolve, but serving a hybrid they only degraded. Many people began to understand this, so the Separatists. The only reason why this did not happen massively is chip. The game clearly says that when choosing the "cold" is not worth serving the Hybrid, Kallax is inclined to agree with Jax, but can not because of the chip. So do not control the Hybrid of the albas directly through the chips and it would have been rejected long ago. Service to him has nothing to do with logic. He did not plan any evolution and development for the Albs, only for himself.

Yeah, I see, more facts that are in fact just opinions of the separatists. When Jax speaks with Kallax, Kallax says that the chip did not control him, he said that after the audience with the hybrid he started to see the whole picture and gained the universal knowledge from ELEX just as hybrid does.

Originally posted by All You Need Is Kill:

Originally posted by Duncan:

I have no idea as I haven't even played the cold way.

Typically, you did not play the cold way, but with the air of a connoisseur, you talk about how "cold" Jax thinks.
So I'll tell you. The survival of Kallax in battle is also based solely on the coldness of Jax. How is this reasonable? The blows and shots of the "cold" Jax are more deadly?
Ray's survival after a suicidal attack is also based solely on Jax's coldness. How will Jax's emotionality help him survive?
This is absolutely ridiculous system. The idea of a scale different from good and evil is interesting, the realization is terrible.

I did not play the cold way, I paid attention to cold options and their meaning, I've understood the whole motivation of Jax. You, on the other hand wanted an emotional character but choked on the ELEX potions too much, getting cold instead. And this is the reason of your hurt feelings here, you wanted things your way, but screwed it for yourself, so now you blame the game.
And now you ask me ridiculous questions. How the shots of cold Jax make more damage? How a Pick Me UP chem makes you deal double damage even with rifles? This is an RPG game dude, it's a simple buff. You could just as well ask me how a person can raise their intelligence tenfold by killing animals. Srsly, you just nitpicking here and doing yourself a disservice.
And do you even have proofs Ray survives according only to your coldness levels, and not his respect towards you or his personal quest?

Originally posted by All You Need Is Kill:

Originally posted by Duncan:

But basically, the way I see it, your complaints are very akin to some KotOR (1 or 2) player who played the whole game making evil choices, and then complaining why his evil character becomes a sith. I mean, look at Darth Vader, he was evil too, but in the end he turned to the light side! This is how RPGs are made, just deal with it.

This is the most common morality in the style of Star Wars. In KOTOR, it is exactly the same. The choice of the side in this game only affects bonuses and penalties to the appropriate abilities of the Force. The player can at any time make the opposite choice. Including the ending. Nothing to do with the ELEX system.

You haven't even played KOTOR. There are many events when your character is forced to kill certain NPC simply because he is evil. As an example - you have to kill each jedi master in kotor 2, you get wookie/Mira companion depending solely on your light/dark alignment, some of your companions become evil/good depending on your alignment etc.

[Drakzen]

This is how an RPG should be, not letting you do whatever the heck you want with no real consequences.

It makes for a better, more enjoyable story since your actions have consequences.