Is people say this game is censored, troll or real?

[Jameskb31™ ︻デ 一 DEAF]

hmm...

[KarmaTheAlligator]

davidb11 eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm probably really bad at explaining myself though.

It's the fact you used self-censoring, which can mean what both of you said.

[Katsey]

Metal_Bard eredeti hozzászólása:

If no-one says or does anything about it just keeps going. Which is fine by me, they will have to find someone else to buy their products. I have a feeling that list of customers is getting lower by the day.

Things keep going because that's what the majority of people want. You can't deny that fact. If you and your acquaintance decide to stop buying some product and complain to make things evolve, that's fine. But if nothing changes, it just prove that you're a vocal minority.

The problem I do have with this debate, It's how the question is asked. Basically, It ALWAYS require you to be fully for or against it. And that's where things gets toxic.
Censorship is a strong weapon in the wrong hands, I'm not denying that. But when you're talking of video games, it's not censorship. It's localisation and this is a different thing. I don't think I need to give you the definitions of those words.

Here's my point : There's a very thin line between those two and I think that we are far from crossing it. I'm totally ok with people fighting against censorship to avoid crossing the line one day. But with this kind of debate, the anwser can only be "Promote it" or "Forbid it" and neither of them is good.

[HattoriHanzo]

Lady HawlSera The Prinny eredeti hozzászólása:

It's not actually censored, people are just paranoid because Nintendo brought back their old cenosrship policies because of Tumblr

When did Nintendo get the rights??? Like Fo'real. Honeslty, All disgeae games where made for sony, then they got a few ports for the DS, but they where also PSP.... Hella confused by ur comment. But this comming from a kid that didn't beat the Turrent lv on his PS2 copy back in the day. Anyone feel my pain about that??? N I wasn't going to grind the item lv when the shop had better items from the start.

[Doom]

NOSCOPENOPROBLEM eredeti hozzászólása:

While we can argue about who to blame about censorship, we should all agree that any audience that demands censorship is a bad audience.

The audience that demands censorship should get censored version just for them.
Uncensored version should be available for everybody else.

Haven Clause eredeti hozzászólása:

how you go about making all parties happy, I got nfi

Provide censored version for vocal minorities.
Keep uncensored version available for everybody else.
Charge extra for censored version.
Make sure that owner of censored version does not automatically receive uncensored one.
Accuse of hypocrisy anyone who belongs to vocal minority but didn't buy more expensive censored version.
Claim that anyone claiming to uphold higher moral standards should have no qualms in paying a bit more for a product that fits their tastes/moral system.

That'll be fun.

----

So, basically, in case of breast sliders... release the game with the breast slider. Then release paid dlc that removes it.

[Dr. Raven]

Metal_Bard eredeti hozzászólása:

Dr. Raven eredeti hozzászólása:

You ever think it's insulting to leave it there to some people? lol


I mean you think it's insulting removing it, I'm sure leaving it there would be just as insulting to some people. Apparently anything can be offensive to some people.

It's much worse taking it out than leaving it in. If people didn't want to see that then they don't have to buy it. Likewise. They chose to neuter the game and shield my virgin eyes and ears, I chose to tell them where they could take their game and their perspective that they tried to force on me and where they could shove it.

People who don't wanna see it, just get the option to "not buy it"? Isn't that the options you have right now? Do you like that choice very much, having someone's preference forced on you? At least you can buy the original japan version(usually takes the japanese console too and pretty pricy to import, and you have to have a decent understanding of their language, but it's still an option for you) if you really want an uneditted game, more pure than any localization could ever be. However they can't make one magically appear from another country that would suit their preferences. If that's what you're trying to say.



To be honest it doesn't even sound like you want games localized, more like translated at best. That's not what's expected of these companies, and that's not what they're hired to do.

[NOSCOPENOPROBLEM]

Baroness Aelenwa eredeti hozzászólása:

Metal_Bard eredeti hozzászólása:

If no-one says or does anything about it just keeps going. Which is fine by me, they will have to find someone else to buy their products. I have a feeling that list of customers is getting lower by the day.

Things keep going because that's what the majority of people want. You can't deny that fact. If you and your acquaintance decide to stop buying some product and complain to make things evolve, that's fine. But if nothing changes, it just prove that you're a vocal minority.

The problem I do have with this debate, It's how the question is asked. Basically, It ALWAYS require you to be fully for or against it. And that's where things gets toxic.
Censorship is a strong weapon in the wrong hands, I'm not denying that. But when you're talking of video games, it's not censorship. It's localisation and this is a different thing. I don't think I need to give you the definitions of those words.

Here's my point : There's a very thin line between those two and I think that we are far from crossing it. I'm totally ok with people fighting against censorship to avoid crossing the line one day. But with this kind of debate, the anwser can only be "Promote it" or "Forbid it" and neither of them is good.

"It's not censorship, it's localization" is nothing more than rhetoric and an argument based on semantics to both defend censorship and hide the fact that something is censorship. The fact that there's presently such a thin line between censorship and the average localization work is something that must be noted.

You also seem to care more about an statement or opinion being moderate than correct or right, since you claim that the " 'forbid it' " answer isn't good at all. This isn't something where you can just say "The middle of the road is the real answer". You can't compromise at all in regards to censorship.

[RootingaSmurf]

sjws misinterpreted a dumb joke in POE and obsidian caved and removed it. Would you really goto the lengths of putting that out as dlc?

[NOSCOPENOPROBLEM]

Dr. Raven eredeti hozzászólása:

Metal_Bard eredeti hozzászólása:

It's much worse taking it out than leaving it in. If people didn't want to see that then they don't have to buy it. Likewise. They chose to neuter the game and shield my virgin eyes and ears, I chose to tell them where they could take their game and their perspective that they tried to force on me and where they could shove it.

People who don't wanna see it, just get the option to "not buy it"? Isn't that the options you have right now? Do you like that choice very much, having someone's preference forced on you? At least you can buy the original japan version(usually takes the japanese console too and pretty pricy to import, and you have to have a decent understanding of their language, but it's still an option for you) if you really want an uneditted game, more pure than any localization could ever be. However they can't make one magically appear from another country that would suit their preferences. If that's what you're trying to say.



To be honest it doesn't even sound like you want games localized, more like translated at best. That's not what's expected of these companies, and that's not what they're hired to do.

Why should people who don't want to see things have more say than people who do want to see things?

[Metal_Bard]

Dr. Raven eredeti hozzászólása:

Metal_Bard eredeti hozzászólása:

It's much worse taking it out than leaving it in. If people didn't want to see that then they don't have to buy it. Likewise. They chose to neuter the game and shield my virgin eyes and ears, I chose to tell them where they could take their game and their perspective that they tried to force on me and where they could shove it.

People who don't wanna see it, just get the option to "not buy it"? Isn't that the options you have right now? Do you like that choice very much, having someone's preference forced on you? At least you can buy the original japan version(usually takes the japanese console too and pretty pricy to import, and you have to have a decent understanding of their language, but it's still an option for you) if you really want an uneditted game, more pure than any localization could ever be. However they can't make one magically appear from another country that would suit their preferences. If that's what you're trying to say.



To be honest it doesn't even sound like you want games localized, more like translated at best. That's not what's expected of these companies, and that's not what they're hired to do.

This is correct really, I do just want them translated. I know there are some cultural elements that are different, most people with two brain-cells to rub together know this. I don't need my virgin ears and eyes shielded from this content. And let's face it, some of the editing is downright idiotic. It is what a lot of people demand actually. It isn't a minorty either as someone pointed out. In fact you will find that many people are drawn to "edgy" content. Stuff a lot worse than unlocalized versions of these games tend to have. On top of that, you will notice the grumbling when people find out about the extent of the censor ship. It is much more than a mere minority. It at the very least rubs people the wrong way, then they find out what they spent money on compared to what they are missing out on. Then they get mad. News of Censorship spreads quite a bit faster than other types of video game news.

Let's look at an example of the overall draw to, how shall I put this? More unrestrained endevours.Take a look at Hatred. I haven't bought it, but regardless of all the controversy, it did rather well, from a marketing standpoint, and it gets rather mind numbing when people gloss over that. I think that most people know by now where the game is coming from and why it has Japanese influences, otherwise most of these wouldn't be labeled as JRPGs. Western games get darker and grittier. While Japanese games are censored on their way to here. It is counter-productive, patronizing, and it is getting tedious.

As I said, people who don't want to see it don't have to. I don't want to pay money for what amounts to gimped storylines, or even gimped games. So I don't. I do think censorship should be more or less forbidden, unless there is a real good reason for doing so. If it might actually cause the deaths of many people, like critical intelligence information which is way beyond the scope of mere gaming, then fine, hide your secrets. But this is gaming and this isn't the 90's, again, I thought we got past this crap. When FF Tactics first came out to the playstation it was beloved by many, and hardly censored at all. People were actually drawn to it's story more. Then you had things like vandal hearts.

[Dr. Raven]

NOSCOPENOPROBLEM eredeti hozzászólása:

Dr. Raven eredeti hozzászólása:

People who don't wanna see it, just get the option to "not buy it"? Isn't that the options you have right now? Do you like that choice very much, having someone's preference forced on you? At least you can buy the original japan version(usually takes the japanese console too and pretty pricy to import, and you have to have a decent understanding of their language, but it's still an option for you) if you really want an uneditted game, more pure than any localization could ever be. However they can't make one magically appear from another country that would suit their preferences. If that's what you're trying to say.



To be honest it doesn't even sound like you want games localized, more like translated at best. That's not what's expected of these companies, and that's not what they're hired to do.

Why should people who don't want to see things have more say than people who do want to see things?

It's because they're the majority I assume. But are they really though? I assume they go where the money is at. They just assume that people who want the localization, censoring you might call it, are in fact the majority. And we aren't exactly depriving them of money for this sorta stuff. Sure couple people are saying "I'm boycotting them for this" but is that the majority of their sales, people like that?

[Katsey]

NOSCOPENOPROBLEM eredeti hozzászólása:

You can't compromise at all in regards to censorship.

I wanted to drop a big godwin point and fly away. But this sentence makes me want to stay here a little while.

Can I ask you a question ? Aside from saying "I do not agree with you", what does your answer contributes to the debate ? I'm interested.
That last sentence sounds like an argument by authority(Is that how you call them in english ?) so I'd like to hear you explain. I want to understand.

[Metal_Bard]

Dr. Raven eredeti hozzászólása:

NOSCOPENOPROBLEM eredeti hozzászólása:

Why should people who don't want to see things have more say than people who do want to see things?

It's because they're the majority I assume. But are they really though? I assume they go where the money is at. They just assume that people who want the localization, censoring you might call it, are in fact the majority. And we aren't exactly depriving them of money for this sorta stuff. Sure couple people are saying "I'm boycotting them for this" but is that the majority of their sales, people like that?

Most people don't usually care enough, because they know how hard it is to change things. They still grumble. They will also call out the companies on these. Otherwise no-one would pay attention to all the controversies it causes.

[NOSCOPENOPROBLEM]

Dr. Raven eredeti hozzászólása:

NOSCOPENOPROBLEM eredeti hozzászólása:

Why should people who don't want to see things have more say than people who do want to see things?

It's because they're the majority I assume. But are they really though? I assume they go where the money is at. They just assume that people who want the localization, censoring you might call it, are in fact the majority. And we aren't exactly depriving them of money for this sorta stuff. Sure couple people are saying "I'm boycotting them for this" but is that the majority of their sales, people like that?

A majority of people are not so knowledgeable about censorship. Pro-censorship people also try to hide examples of censorship or try to beat around the bush about it. Additionally the camp of people who will spend money on things specifically because things were censored is smaller than the anti-censorship camp.

At any rate, while I didn't ask for it, your response does nothing to justify censorship itself, only that it explains how games make profits despite censorship. It's not something you can easily defend on principle, only through indirect means which do not defend censorship, but the occurence of it.

[Marshall]

Ryotaro Dojima: Ace Detective eredeti hozzászólása:

Lady HawlSera The Prinny eredeti hozzászólása:

A bunch of Nintendo Exclusive games had a lot of content gutted from the American version because of feminist complaints... Yes Nintendo, cater to the crowd that doesn't BUY video games.

Not a whole lot of content was removed, actually.

still.

[NOSCOPENOPROBLEM]

Baroness Aelenwa eredeti hozzászólása:

NOSCOPENOPROBLEM eredeti hozzászólása:

You can't compromise at all in regards to censorship.

I wanted to drop a big godwin point and fly away. But this sentence makes me want to stay here a little while.

Can I ask you a question ? Aside from saying "I do not agree with you", what does your answer contributes to the debate ? I'm interested.
That last sentence sounds like an argument by authority(Is that how you call them in english ?) so I'd like to hear you explain. I want to understand.

By can't, I'm referring to the difficulty there is within trying to compromise with censorship, rather than can't as in "By the will of another, you are not allowed to". I've mentioned having an option which censors content, but generally the people for censorship want content removed, rather than simply being toggled to an unapparent state for their personal preference. Such people would want more than just their copy of a game to be censored to their liking.

I can't imagine that pro-censorship people would want to compromise. Additionally, the Nazis used censorship. They weren't against it. It would make no sense to invoke Godwin's law unless you were arguing against someone who is FOR censorship.