Etna in the post game

[cathartic]

I'm currently some distance into the post-game, with most of my characters in the low 600s. At this level, it's becoming clear that Etna is seriously underperforming.

Part of the problem is that I've trained her as a spear user, and spears are far from the best of weapons. Her unique abilities also seem to do low damage, leaving Avalanche as her only high damage attack. However it's awkward to use.

If I remove all her items and compare her to other characters I can see another side of the problem. Her base stats are lower than Laharls in all areas except SPD and RES. Compared to a divine maijin she doesn't even come close.

So I ask myself "should she be retired"? Alternatively, is the problem simply that she is suffering from not having been reincarnated often enough to keep up in stats? Currently my story characters have only been reincarnated once each.

[cathartic]

Tanks don't really work in this game, since characters need to keep up in kills to level up.

Additionally, unless I'm facing foes that grossly outlevel me, it's extremely rare for my melee characters to take significant damage, so there doesn't seem to be much call for higher defences - at least until I get round to making a serious attempt on demonhall mirror stage 7, but I think some more levels will take care of that challenge.

[cathartic]

There are so many things wrong with your post. How much have you actually played this game?

For example:

- you don't explain how to keep up in levels with a unit that is specced to do low damage

- you don't explain why it is worth levelling a unit that, in your words "can be used for special situations" when for the same (or less) time investment you could level something that is more generally useful.

- you don't explain why Etna is tougher as a tank than other units. Note that her base defence is only 6, which is lower than most other melee classes. She does get 100% scaling on it, which is good, but Warriors, Angels, Samurai and Laharl also receive 100% scaling with a better base, whilst a divine majin has a base of 16 with 120% scaling.

- you claim she is maneueveable, but I don't find her so. Her base movement of 5 is mediocre compared to end game classes. Her personal skills are seldom very useful, and her spear skills can not only be used by other classes, but are generally less useful for setting up good tactical postiions than fist skills are. In fact, two of them move her away from her target, which doesn't sound to me as ideal for positioning a tank!

[cathartic]

Are you sure you're not taking that information from Disgaea 2? I can't see any evidence that spears give a defensive bonus in the first Disgaea.

[Bomb Bloke]

Originally posted by cathartic:

Alternatively, is the problem simply that she is suffering from not having been reincarnated often enough to keep up in stats? Currently my story characters have only been reincarnated once each.

Stat growth is based on a unit's "level one" stats. Each time you reincarnate you get to raise those starter stats, and their ultimate cap is the same for all units.

Thing is it's not really worth transmigrating for the sake of stats until you can quickly raise unit levels up into the quadruple digits (that is to say, from 1 to 1,000 within a quarter hour, or ideally higher and in less time). At your level range transmigrations are still only useful for class changes, and Etna can't change class.

The spear is indeed a poor weapon (although it's far from the worst) - the problem comes down to the fact that she can't kill many units per turn with it. You can retrain her to use the almighty sword if you want, but that's likewise only worth doing later in the game (when you've got lots of Armsmasters).

Where Divine Majins ultimately win out over everything else is in their affinities, which affect the bonuses units get from equipped gear. Affinities are tied directly to class - later games allowed improvement for the story characters (who can't change class) simply by transmigrating over and over, but this first title doesn't.

Disgaea's an easy game, though. Etna may not outpower some of your other characters, but she won't be fighting against those characters anyway, so that's not such a huge deal. Use her if you think she's fun, ignore her if you don't. As with most units, she mostly only has novelty value.

[Bomb Bloke]

Originally posted by Ozelot:

spears can kill 8 units per turn only one less than yer almighty sword

Very few maps set units up for that particular spear attack. Having to sacrifice throws / attacks / whatever to set things up to use it hardly speaks in its favour.

Originally posted by Ozelot:

also spears can hit from two tiles away assisting for higher counter attacks; try doing that with your mighty sword, buckaroo :meowric:

Don't need to; any unit can learn spells.

[Bomb Bloke]

Originally posted by Ozelot:

you can't expect every freaking character to be Winged slayering coo3 by themselves at level 1 all the time

We're not talking about level one characters.

Originally posted by Ozelot:

and yea because you can counter with spells in this game lol :kittycat:

Oh, did you mean to say "further" counter attacks? Here I thought you were talking about the counter on combos.

[Bomb Bloke]

Er, then did you mean to say I can't expect them to one-shot CoO3 with Winged Slayer at all? Because I totally expect my transmigrated level one characters to do that. It's not like they have to use unlevelled equipment.

[Bomb Bloke]

You're trying to build a strawman here. You were the one who brought up CoO3 (though if you think it takes 500 hours to use it then you're doing something very wrong - Disgaea is all about finding shortcuts to power).

You also know as well as I do that, even putting aside all the downfalls of using non-humanoids, a monster class ability has no bearing on a discussion about which weapons are worth using. Swords offer much more than a 3x3 AoE - there's no spear that offers a movement bonus, for example, or a basic attack range of five tiles.

[Bomb Bloke]

That's obviously rather less useful than being able to move your character before attacking.

[AGA | prinnyuber]

Why not hunt for specialists that inflict every stat ailment in the game? Sounds like you havent unlocked her spear storm yet which is the final tier of skills she learns as a spear user.

[cathartic]

Now that I've progressed a little further into the end game and am working on the final 2 achievements, some of the replies here are quite funny. They are clearly written by people who haven't progressed very far at all.

Tanking is largely irrelevant in the end game. Nothing short of an item god 2 or story boss does serious damage. Meanwhile, unless you're overgeared, said bosses will one shot any ranged character, and some less tanky melees. And Etna falls into that category. She lacks the defensive scaling of a divine Maijin, Laharl or Adell. Her damage is also on the low side, and her aoe skills do laughable damage against high level enemies compared to those available for sword and fist users.

[cathartic]

Originally posted by prinnyuber:

Why not hunt for specialists that inflict every stat ailment in the game? Sounds like you havent unlocked her spear storm yet which is the final tier of skills she learns as a spear user.

Are you joking? The title of the thread did say post game. All skills are unlocked.

Hunting for status ailment specialists is a poor use of time. Early game you want to hunt statisticians and armsmasters. Late game, if you want the 10 million damage achievement, then if anything you'll be hunting gladiators.

Spear storm is useful when you first get it, and when grinding COO3 / DHM. It's irrelevant later in the game when you're focusing on bosses and deep levelling high rank items.

[AGA | prinnyuber]

Have you considered this....

Find a 3 legendary armors and weapon with matching rarities?
Raising the weapons mastery to 255?
If you find Etna as a weak spear user, move on to the next weapon she is good at and experiment! FYI using staves will help her with some of her other skills like sexy beam and chaos impact, etc.

This goes for any other unit. I do agree that specialists are easier to get in later games but if it helps it helps. 1900 armsmaster should do the trick but I like to go 3800 because I like to go one step beyond! Once you ve done collecting armsmasters, move your cute butt to the second last stage of Johtenhiem before you fought Maderas and let 2 characters armed with armsmasters wack each other to bits. Dont worry the invincibily panel shouldnt affect them from dying. It doesnt matter if your weapon grade is d with your characters the armsmaster helps raise it up exponentially. I warn you though this is also a time consuming process but if you want power you know what to do ya?

I m still trying to experiment on what will raise up your skill usage faster and what specialist to use. Till then EXPERIMENTATION, HO!

[cathartic]

> Find a 3 legendary armors and weapon with matching rarities?
> Raising the weapons mastery to 255?

Yes - that's exactly how I picked up the 10 million damage achievement last night. However going for that achievement with Etna would be kind of dumb, and once you've done it with one character the game is practically over.

[AGA | prinnyuber]

Indeed. At least you are not like my friend from downtown who is also a disgaea nut and applies math on everything. X.x

Anywho, sooner or later you will get an itch on min maxing everyone in your party. I still wanna try my idea from earlier. The part about stat ailments on Etna. I wonder if moves like turbulance will apply every stat ailment in the game providing the enemy unit is still alive. It would be lame if it only activates on a normal attack.