Do Rats Eating Unconscious Bodies Count As A Kill?

[LunarFirestorm]

Contrary to popular belief, in the first Dishonored rats eating unconscious bodies doesn't count as a kill. Just making sure it works the same in Dishonored 2 before I play it for the first time and do a clean hands run.

[Sep]

Yes... they count...

let's just say I already did it... in a spectacular fashion...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2593184595

[LunarFirestorm]

Originally posted by Silas:

Yes... they count...

let's just say I already did it... in a spectacular fashion...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2593184595

Nice. I'm talking about naturally occurring rats though.

In Dishonored 1 naturally occurring rats eating unconscious bodies doesn't count as a kill but I'm pretty sure summoned ones eating unconscious bodies does.

[Xengre]

In Dishonored 1 naturally occurring rats DID count as a kill when eating unconscious bodies. It was a notorious problem. If you didn't have that happen it was due to extremely fortunate luck. It counts here, again, unfortunately. The recommendation is to hide bodies on a couch/table/in a trash can/etc. but it is only if enough rats have congregated. Also, this game has the infamous knock out kill bug that plagues the Deus Ex series as well in which killing a target as they collapse onto the ground they may be killed by the ground... due to physics bugs. It is advised to save before each KO and then check if you got any kills registered after the knock out. Avoiding knocking out or interacting with as many people as possible will make your life easier considering... Personally, I found this bug to be rarer in this game than say... Deus Ex and probably only saw it twice during a single playthrough so you shouldn't have to reload too much.

[LunarFirestorm]

Originally posted by Xengre:

In Dishonored 1 naturally occurring rats DID count as a kill when eating unconscious bodies. It was a notorious problem. If you didn't have that happen it was due to extremely fortunate luck. It counts here, again, unfortunately. The recommendation is to hide bodies on a couch/table/in a trash can/etc. but it is only if enough rats have congregated. Also, this game has the infamous knock out kill bug that plagues the Deus Ex series as well in which killing a target as they collapse onto the ground they may be killed by the ground... due to physics bugs. It is advised to save before each KO and then check if you got any kills registered after the knock out. Avoiding knocking out or interacting with as many people as possible will make your life easier considering... Personally, I found this bug to be rarer in this game than say... Deus Ex and probably only saw it twice during a single playthrough so you shouldn't have to reload too much.

No they don't. They must have patched it at some point as I literally tested this today. I did a quick run of high overseer Campbell sparing Curnow and taking out Campbell non-lethally, I dropped 2 unconscious bodies into naturally occurring rats, watched them eat the bodies, finished the mission with no kills and ghost.

[Xengre]

Originally posted by LunarFirestorm:

Originally posted by Xengre:

In Dishonored 1 naturally occurring rats DID count as a kill when eating unconscious bodies. It was a notorious problem. If you didn't have that happen it was due to extremely fortunate luck. It counts here, again, unfortunately. The recommendation is to hide bodies on a couch/table/in a trash can/etc. but it is only if enough rats have congregated. Also, this game has the infamous knock out kill bug that plagues the Deus Ex series as well in which killing a target as they collapse onto the ground they may be killed by the ground... due to physics bugs. It is advised to save before each KO and then check if you got any kills registered after the knock out. Avoiding knocking out or interacting with as many people as possible will make your life easier considering... Personally, I found this bug to be rarer in this game than say... Deus Ex and probably only saw it twice during a single playthrough so you shouldn't have to reload too much.

No they don't. They must have patched it at some point as I literally tested this today. I did a quick run of high overseer Campbell sparing Curnow and taking out Campbell non-lethally, I dropped 2 unconscious bodies into naturally occurring rats, watched them eat the bodies, finished the mission with no kills and ghost.

Maybe, but unlikely as it was initially intentional (though even back then there were people saying it wasn't occurring when tested so it may be inconsistent due to some type of observant behavior preventing it from occurring during observation or a bug).

Leaving an unconscious NPC in the middle of the street or alley, where rats have access to the body, can result in clean-up which will count as a kill for the player

Source: https://www.pcgamer.com/dishonored-chaos-guide-stealth-no-detection-explanation/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_linkname=0
The actual source was from Bethesda's website in their forum by Bethesda, themselves, but the link is no longer valid due to forum updates.

What is interesting is this was observed to occur not just in streets and obvious rat locations but even in upper floors of buildings and less obvious spots so it became a rule in the community to toss bodies on tables, couches, etc. to avoid risking rats killing unconscious bodies.

[LunarFirestorm]

Originally posted by Xengre:

Originally posted by LunarFirestorm:

No they don't. They must have patched it at some point as I literally tested this today. I did a quick run of high overseer Campbell sparing Curnow and taking out Campbell non-lethally, I dropped 2 unconscious bodies into naturally occurring rats, watched them eat the bodies, finished the mission with no kills and ghost.

Maybe, but unlikely as it was initially intentional (though even back then there were people saying it wasn't occurring when tested so it may be inconsistent due to some type of observant behavior preventing it from occurring during observation or a bug).

Leaving an unconscious NPC in the middle of the street or alley, where rats have access to the body, can result in clean-up which will count as a kill for the player

Source: https://www.pcgamer.com/dishonored-chaos-guide-stealth-no-detection-explanation/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_linkname=0
The actual source was from Bethesda's website in their forum by Bethesda, themselves, but the link is no longer valid due to forum updates.

What is interesting is this was observed to occur not just in streets and obvious rat locations but even in upper floors of buildings and less obvious spots so it became a rule in the community to toss bodies on tables, couches, etc. to avoid risking rats killing unconscious bodies.

It just seems strange to me that it would be a bug when I can consistently get no kills when I directly feed bodies to naturally spawning rats. Not that I'm denying the possibility but I don't really believe it could be a bug that just applies to rats eating bodies while being watched. I would say that rules out the possibility of it being a bug when I can get no kills consistently.

[LunarFirestorm]

The wiki seems to support this.

"Clean Hands does not consider Corvo Attano to have killed someone if a person is killed by someone other than Corvo. For instance, if naturally-occurring rats kill a City Watch Guard, it is not considered a kill, but using Devouring Swarm to kill a guard does count as a kill. Similarly, deaths resulting from a fight between guards and weepers, or thugs, are not counted as kills. Unconscious characters killed by naturally-occuring rat swarms do not count against this achievement, but unconscious characters killed by other means (e.g., falling from heights) are considered killed by Corvo, and do prevent the achievement."

It also links this example:
https://youtu.be/zsnE4BtN69A?list=PLAzBbMvMmtJb3NuxM5gO5SjsI6pjBEgz0

[Xengre]

Originally posted by LunarFirestorm:

The wiki seems to support this.

"Clean Hands does not consider Corvo Attano to have killed someone if a person is killed by someone other than Corvo. For instance, if naturally-occurring rats kill a City Watch Guard, it is not considered a kill, but using Devouring Swarm to kill a guard does count as a kill. Similarly, deaths resulting from a fight between guards and weepers, or thugs, are not counted as kills. Unconscious characters killed by naturally-occuring rat swarms do not count against this achievement, but unconscious characters killed by other means (e.g., falling from heights) are considered killed by Corvo, and do prevent the achievement."

It also links this example:
https://youtu.be/zsnE4BtN69A?list=PLAzBbMvMmtJb3NuxM5gO5SjsI6pjBEgz0

The wiki is, unfortunately, wrong in this case. This bug was confirmed by the devs immediately at release and I, and others, have experienced it. It created a very significant amount of hate towards the game at release because it would force people to replay parts of the game because of random rats killing a human. Some people think otherwise but this is likely due to the inconsistency of the bug. Then again there is like 14 or so different glitches that can kill people ruining that achievement in addition to this one but most of them are quite rare as well.

[LunarFirestorm]

Originally posted by Xengre:

Originally posted by LunarFirestorm:

The wiki seems to support this.

"Clean Hands does not consider Corvo Attano to have killed someone if a person is killed by someone other than Corvo. For instance, if naturally-occurring rats kill a City Watch Guard, it is not considered a kill, but using Devouring Swarm to kill a guard does count as a kill. Similarly, deaths resulting from a fight between guards and weepers, or thugs, are not counted as kills. Unconscious characters killed by naturally-occuring rat swarms do not count against this achievement, but unconscious characters killed by other means (e.g., falling from heights) are considered killed by Corvo, and do prevent the achievement."

It also links this example:
https://youtu.be/zsnE4BtN69A?list=PLAzBbMvMmtJb3NuxM5gO5SjsI6pjBEgz0

The wiki is, unfortunately, wrong in this case. This bug was confirmed by the devs immediately at release and I, and others, have experienced it. It created a very significant amount of hate towards the game at release because it would force people to replay parts of the game because of random rats killing a human. Some people think otherwise but this is likely due to the inconsistency of the bug. Then again there is like 14 or so different glitches that can kill people ruining that achievement in addition to this one but most of them are quite rare as well.

If the devs confirmed this bug immediately at release why do you seem to think it hasn't been patched? Look at that video and see how many people are knocked out or straight up fed to the rats. If the devs confirmed this was a bug at release then clearly the intended behaviour is that rats eating corpses doesn't count as a kill unless they are summoned by Corvo, and they will have patched this at some point.

Have you played Dishonored 1 recently? You can knock out people anywhere you want and still get no kills. Like you said though there are plenty of other things or bugs that can kill unconscious guards though like water, falling a metre or two and hitting the ground, clipping into/through the ground, etc.

I'm not trying to needlessly keep this argument going but you aren't giving any proof that this bug still exists, while the wiki and it's reference video support my argument, plus my and others testing.

[Xengre]

Originally posted by LunarFirestorm:

Originally posted by Xengre:

The wiki is, unfortunately, wrong in this case. This bug was confirmed by the devs immediately at release and I, and others, have experienced it. It created a very significant amount of hate towards the game at release because it would force people to replay parts of the game because of random rats killing a human. Some people think otherwise but this is likely due to the inconsistency of the bug. Then again there is like 14 or so different glitches that can kill people ruining that achievement in addition to this one but most of them are quite rare as well.

If the devs confirmed this bug immediately at release why do you seem to think it hasn't been patched? Look at that video and see how many people are knocked out or straight up fed to the rats. If the devs confirmed this was a bug at release then clearly the intended behaviour is that rats eating corpses doesn't count as a kill unless they are summoned by Corvo, and they will have patched this at some point.

Have you played Dishonored 1 recently? You can knock out people anywhere you want and still get no kills. Like you said though there are plenty of other things or bugs that can kill unconscious guards though like water, falling a metre or two and hitting the ground, clipping into/through the ground, etc.

I'm not trying to needlessly keep this argument going but you aren't giving any proof that this bug still exists, while the wiki and it's reference video support my argument, plus my and others testing.

Per the link I sent it was an intended feature based on how it was described. I believe there was a related bug where rats were eating bodies in areas they shouldn't really even be in that they tried to fix almost immediately after release, but I don't know how it turned out as I stopped leaving bodies on the ground at a point.

I have not played Dishonored recently, and not since release in fact. That is why my original stance was that they could but I'm not sure if they ever adjusted this with a patch and then provided the evidence and pointed out it was described as a mechanic initially, albeit very inconsistent, and also ended up reoccurring in Dishonored 2 as well.

It was inconsistent enough back then to be confusing people if it was a thing as many tried to argue it was misinformation only for devs to shortly after verify it did happen (kind of like the game has a dozen other glitches leading to unintended fatalities ruining the achievement but most people wont know about them due to scarcity). Thus I think it is unlikely they fixed it and is just rare, but I wont claim with certainty it does/not remain in the game. I'd just recommend storing bodies somewhere safe or keeping an eye on the kill thing and having 2-3 backup saves just in case as you progress as it should be rare enough that this much should avoid any major issues. Hopefully this clarifies what I intended.

[LunarFirestorm]

Originally posted by Xengre:

Originally posted by LunarFirestorm:

If the devs confirmed this bug immediately at release why do you seem to think it hasn't been patched? Look at that video and see how many people are knocked out or straight up fed to the rats. If the devs confirmed this was a bug at release then clearly the intended behaviour is that rats eating corpses doesn't count as a kill unless they are summoned by Corvo, and they will have patched this at some point.

Have you played Dishonored 1 recently? You can knock out people anywhere you want and still get no kills. Like you said though there are plenty of other things or bugs that can kill unconscious guards though like water, falling a metre or two and hitting the ground, clipping into/through the ground, etc.

I'm not trying to needlessly keep this argument going but you aren't giving any proof that this bug still exists, while the wiki and it's reference video support my argument, plus my and others testing.

Per the link I sent it was an intended feature based on how it was described. I believe there was a related bug where rats were eating bodies in areas they shouldn't really even be in that they tried to fix almost immediately after release, but I don't know how it turned out as I stopped leaving bodies on the ground at a point.

I have not played Dishonored recently, and not since release in fact. That is why my original stance was that they could but I'm not sure if they ever adjusted this with a patch and then provided the evidence and pointed out it was described as a mechanic initially, albeit very inconsistent, and also ended up reoccurring in Dishonored 2 as well.

It was inconsistent enough back then to be confusing people if it was a thing as many tried to argue it was misinformation only for devs to shortly after verify it did happen (kind of like the game has a dozen other glitches leading to unintended fatalities ruining the achievement but most people wont know about them due to scarcity). Thus I think it is unlikely they fixed it and is just rare, but I wont claim with certainty it does/not remain in the game. I'd just recommend storing bodies somewhere safe or keeping an eye on the kill thing and having 2-3 backup saves just in case as you progress as it should be rare enough that this much should avoid any major issues. Hopefully this clarifies what I intended.

I'm glad Dishonored 2 lets you check your kills mid mission, definitely a big improvement on Dishonored 1. I rotate saves in games like this so that combined with the fact that you can check your kills means I'll make sure no bugs ruin the achievement.

[Lar Dass]

on mission 6, and natural rats ate a bunch of zzz bodies from a stun grenade, kill count was 0 after it

[alangriffith]

The confusion may be from the fact that if you knock out the Gentleman Callers for Granny Rags, the rat swarm she later feeds will come out of the house and eat them, which definitely counts as a kill (for me, when playing Dishonoured literally last month).

However I suspect those rats don't count as "naturally occurring" for the game since they are spawned by Granny Rags/event triggers. But anyone who plays that bit immediately assumes unconscious guys eaten by rats will always be a kill, for the whole game.

The OP question dates from 2021, but in case anyone else come across this and wonders about the original question - there aren't any rat swarms eating bodies in Dishonoured 2 (unless you summon them with a void power) as the rat plague is over. There are bloodflies, but as far as I can tell they only infest corpses, not unconscious people (I've not fully tested this but it matches the game hints ).