Staff combat (and combat in general) is broken.

[Mehbah]

I've played for 38 hours now and recently became a mage. Up to this point I had used a sword and shield since the staff combat simply wasn't as useful. I had hoped this would change as I joined up with the order and got some training, but no luck. I've tried raising my staff level to 6 or 7 and it just doesn't help much.

To begin with, staff attacks are simply too slow. They're so slow that it makes player skill irrelevant. For example: ghouls. It's outright impossible to attack them safely. Their attacks are much faster than your own, to the point where you can initate an attack while they aren't attacking, but still get hit because they initiated an attack after you. This happens very frequently in combos, even if you time your attacks correctly. And unless you use combos, your attacks do little more than tickle enemies.

This is a big problem with the combat in general; enemy attacks are practically instant and you have no way to see them coming. Trying to maintain a distance is pointless since many enemies have insanely fast lunges If you aren't already blocking when they use one, you need superhuman reflexes to block or dodge it. When you're attacking, enemies can dodge to the side. If you're unlucky, they can dodge your attack and attack you from the side before your attack even finishes and you have a chance to block.

On the subject of your dodges, they're terrible. Even if you manage to dodge an enemy's attack, they might simply turn around and hit you with the follow up. Just about the only enemies dodges are useful for are boars and spinerats, since their attacks are reliable and they're unlikely to combo. And even that is just because staves can't block their attacks so you're forced to find openings. Why is that, anyway? I haven't found a single advantage that staves have over sword and shield. They're slower, can't block as many attacks, and I haven't noticed any big difference in damage.

I'm getting very disappointed in the combat. I had hoped it would be similar to the Souls games in the sense that you can beat anything with enough skill even with the starter equipment, and improving your stats and equipment would only even the odds so you don't need to be incredibly good to finish the game. As a rule of thumb, a game should never force you to take damage, or it's a bad combat system. With enough skill, you should be able to avoid damage entirely, but that's impossible with enemies that have absolutely no safe openings.

[lionhart]

Staff combat is definitely more challenging than sword combat, for two reasons you mentioned: You cannot use a shield, and the swinging speed is slower. I think that is by design; the only reason you would be using a staff is if you are playing as a mage, and mages are supposed to use crystal magic as their primary form of attack. They even tell you in the game (when you first arrive at the monastery) that mages learn only the basics of staff fighting and then focus on magic.

It is possible to become skilled at staff combat, but if your intention is to go through the game as a melee fighter I would definitely recommend learning sword combat instead. Since you have already invested points into staff combat though, you should get your staff skill up to level 8 (you said you are already at level 6 or 7). Level 8 gives you the power attack and that makes a huge difference.

Combinations are extremely important in this game, as you have already noticed. The last stroke of the combination (the big sweeping downstroke) does the most damage. The power attack helps a lot, especially in conjunction with lateral blows. If you use a powered lateral blow on the second to last stroke of the combination, it will knock the opponent's parry aside 100% of the time, and then you can immediately follow that up with a really strong powered downstroke that will do a ton of damage.

Ghouls are by far the most difficult enemy to fight in melee. I am good at Risen's combat system, but I always use ranged attacks against ghouls if I can. I don't know of any way to defeat them in melee without taking some damage. Fortunately there aren't that many ghouls in the game.

The Saurians are actually much easier to fight (you might not have met them yet, but you will soon). Just parry and let them hit you -- they won't do any damage as long as you parry -- then watch for an opening in their combination and hit them fast while their guard is down. Counter-parries also work well against Saurians if you can get the timing right.

[TGC> The Games Collector]

hmz, as a mage I always, pretty much ALWAYS when/if I can, summon a skeleton in battle.
The extra distraction it provides gives you more room to swing your staff or whip out a crystal.

Actually, the fast attacks the enemy does are counter parries. :/ and yeah, they do alot more damage than your own. You can do those quick jabs too at a certain weapon level, but they'll have less reach and way less damage than a normal attack.


And ghouls... they're just the worst enemies in this game, never managed to sidestep any of their attacks. You can jump back, but then you're out of reach for a counter attack.
Distance attacks are a good idea against them. Or have Fred attack them from behind.

[lionhart]

Originally posted by ♫TGC> The Grizzly Cousin:

hmz, as a mage I always, pretty much ALWAYS when/if I can, summon a skeleton in battle.
The extra distraction it provides gives you a more room to swing your staff or whip out a crystal.

Good point. A summoned skeleton can be a huge help in a tough battle. Also, as a mage you get unlimited casts of Berserker and Protection, so always try to have one of them active during melee combat. Unfortunately you cannot use both at the same time, so you'll have to decide which you prefer: increased damage, or better protection.

[Mehbah]

I've given it another try. I had fairly fun murdering the island's fauna that had respawned after I became a mage, seeing as none of them are anywhere as annoying as the ghouls. Then I decided to try killing ogres, and that wasn't very fun. They're like ghouls in that they have an absurdly fast attack that you can't possibly react to. I know they aren't necessary to beat (yet, at least) but I refused to back down after I had already started. After a lot of kiting around and reloading, I managed to kill two of them. I didn't bother with the rest.

I wasn't even aware that there is a skeleton summon spell. Haven't found it yet. I did have a scroll of berserker (used it against the ogres) but I don't have the rune to make more. Might not even be able to create more even if I find it, since my seal level is only at one.

Anyway, a few questions:

How do I get into the red magic barrier in the monastery? I heard the magic bullet crystal is found there, and I haven't upgraded the fireball or frost spells since I want to try them all before I decide. The frost spell does pretty much no damage and I haven't noticed any slowdown whatsoever, and the fireballs are pretty weak as well, so far.

I heard the sequel assumes you joined the order. Is there any major differences between the warrior of the order and mage paths? Should I replay it as a warrior of the order before I start the sequel?

Is there any reason to keep the various goblets, plates and such items? Or should I sell them all?

[TGC> The Games Collector]

Originally posted by Mehbah:

How do I get into the red magic barrier in the monastery? I heard the magic bullet crystal is found there, and I haven't upgraded the fireball or frost spells since I want to try them all before I decide. The frost spell does pretty much no damage and I haven't noticed any slowdown whatsoever, and the fireballs are pretty weak as well, so far.

There's a quest you have to do with Cyrus to find a druid, and he'll had over a number of scrolls to dissolve barriers when you get to that point. They only work on the red barriers tho. There's also one in the monastery's secret library.
The blue barriers need a rune you'll get later on in the game from Ursegor.

Originally posted by Mehbah:

I heard the sequel assumes you joined the order. Is there any major differences between the warrior of the order and mage paths? Should I replay it as a warrior of the order before I start the sequel?

Nope, doesn't make a bit of difference, I don't think it transfers saves anyway.

[Mehbah]

Originally posted by ♫TGC> The Grizzly Cousin:

Nope, doesn't make a bit of difference, I don't think it transfers saves anyway.

I meant so that I got to see the canon path of Risen 1 before I started 2. Thanks for the answers, though. Do you know the answer to the third question I edited in shortly before you responded, about the various items?

Also, I just found a berserker rune. Will have to level up my seal skill to use it though.

[lionhart]

There isn't much difference between playing as a mage or as a warrior of the Order. Mages get to use runes; warriors don't use runes but they still get crystal magic plus better armor. With the mage path you end the game as a Master; as a warrior you end up as the Inquisitor. But in either case it doesn't matter; at the start of Risen 2 you are just a lowly grunt who gets kicked out of the Order at the start of the game anyway.

The goblets and plates are just loot that you can trade for gold. No reason to keep them.

The magic bullet crystal is not behind the red barrier. It is in a locked chest behind a hidden doorway at the rear of the library. You open it by activating secret switches that look like iron rings hanging on the walls.

[TGC> The Games Collector]

You might want to try writing scrolls of those higher tier runes. If you can, then at least you'll be able to cast the spells that way by preparing a few scrolls.

You can sell all the plates and goblets and other shiny things, seems that's what they're there for. I haven't found any quest to collect them, nor any special trader that would pay extra for it.

[Mehbah]

To summarize my progress since my last post: I found someone selling scrolls to summon Fred. Suddenly nothing can stand in my path.

[Mehbah]

I've been messing around a bit with the staff combat skill. I brought it up to level 10 to see what it's like, but I don't notice any difference at all. It says I can chain any amount of attacks together, but I haven't noticed any difference at all. Combos still end with the overhead swing no matter what I do. What does it do exactly?

[lionhart]

It lets you chain an unlimited number of lateral blows. If you keep switching back and forth between left and right lateral blows, you could theoretically make an endless combination. But I have not found that to be very useful. I never raise staff skill above level 8, and with sword I usually stop at level 7. Learning points are at a premium in this game, and I like to save them for other things.

[Kozzy]

Had no problem beating the game as a mage to be honest.. make sure you are training properly.

[Mehbah]

I've already finished it. Just beating it isn't hard, since you can just spam magic bullet and summon Fred. My problem with the combat is that one aspect of it is inherently broken, which is that enemies have extremely fast attacks. So fast that you have no way of hitting them without the risk of them initiating a counter attack after you've already began your swing and hitting you first. All the lizardmen have this attack, among others.

I eventually started using charged attacks from a distance to get around that. I could of course have used nothing but magic bullet, but I really didn't feel like drinking a hundred mana potions. Anyway, aside from the poor balancing on the enemy counter attacks, I started enjoying the melee combat a lot towards the end. Then I started Risen 2 and found out it was a consolized disappointment. Gone are the fantastic dungeons from 1, replaced with linear paths and all the traps are QTEs.

[lionhart]

Originally posted by Mehbah:

My problem with the combat is that one aspect of it is inherently broken, which is that enemies have extremely fast attacks. So fast that you have no way of hitting them without the risk of them initiating a counter attack after you've already began your swing and hitting you first. All the lizardmen have this attack, among others.

I really think the issue here was the choice of staff combat. The faster swinging speed of the sword alleviates most of the problem.

And yeah, I didn't have the heart to tell you that after taking the time to learn Risen's combat system, you would have to throw it all away for Risen 2! I was just as disappointed as you are, although once I accepted the fact that Risen 2 is a completely different game I enjoyed it on its own merits. It has a decent story, and (at least to me) a very amusing sense of humor.

[Mehbah]

Originally posted by lionhart:

I really think the issue here was the choice of staff combat. The faster swinging speed of the sword alleviates most of the problem.

The issue wasn't the choice of staff combat, but rather that they made staff combat significantly worse than sword combat in the first place. They could have balanced it by giving it some strong advantage if they wanted to keep the slower swings.