Ending Discussion [Spoilers]

[MrWoodenSheep]

Obviously, spoilers ahead.

Anyone care to leave what they think happened in the ending? I'm curious

[Supertramp2012]

I'd like to point out that Lorraine had documentation from the Institution she was in (Dunwich?) after Callum was born. Part of her treatment for depression was electroshock therapy, which along with antidepression medication (Lolift) hurried her "recovery". It is not recommended that one take antidepression meds and drink alcohol (wine.) That didn't help. Also, the problems she had making a claim on Don's life insurance involved not being actually married. His parents also seem to question whether Callum was even Don's child.
Now, my first question is "What is the significance of the photo of two best friends: Don and Laura"? and How can you get the "conversation w/the Chipmonk (Steve)" and "leaving the Park" achievements?
BTW, I really goofed when it came to the bug the detective brought to the table. I thought it was a reference to the end of PYSCHO, when the Antony Perkins character declares that "she" wanted everyone to see that "she" was so harmless, "she" wouldn't even hurt a fly (which was crawling on the blanket.) OOOPS!
Never mind about the achievements. I got 'em all.

[Supertramp2012]

Generally speaking, as an outsider to the TSW, what I concluded was Solomon Island had a previous owner who dabbled in the occult, judging from the townspeople's reaction to his name. Something supernatural was influencing the park. The newspaper clippings at the sideshow seem to point to a child's death, which made me wonder if it was Callum. Who's body was that behind the Cotton Candy stand? Definitely the body of an adult. The new owner seemed to have taken up where the previous owner left off, though I suspect it was the supernatural influence of the Park. He originally seemed to want to create a Fun Park, but later, seemed to dirive some kind of power from the deaths there. Well, I'm lost to what the developers were trying to do except tell a sad strory of a new mother's depression and her inability to cope with the changes in her life.

[Skirnir]

The bug in the glass bowl is a bee. It's a reference for all the TSW players.
A bee infuses the Player with Anima (some kind of enhanced power of already natural talents) and also gifts the Player with immortality.
Usually Gaia chooses who get the gift of the bee, but it seem that the detective, a council of venice agent (One of the TSW Factions), wants to infuse Lorraine manually with it.

[Supertramp2012]

Hey, thanks! I looked the game over again and saw the previous owner was drawing power from negative energy and the new park owner was using a positive energy released from the happy crowds to achieve power. I get the idea his plans were incomplete and that's why it failed in the end. Oh, and I did get the acheivement for the conversation with Chip, but I still am unsure how to get the one for leaving the park. I have an idea I'm gonna try, but it seems silly.

[Cinna]

Originally posted by MrWoodenSheep:

Originally posted by Forestt:

At the end I was hoping that she turned out to be a crazy 'witch' that hated children, lured them into her house and had many dead/murdered children in her basement, being the boy you had to find as her last victim.

Im not sure how I have to interpretate the ending. Was it a dream? Why was the chipmonk guy hiding there? etc..

Yea a bit confused about it myself as well. I just assumed that maybe I missed some notes.

What I was getting towards the end, was that she had perhaps gone a bit crazy after her lover died working on the ferris wheel. Maybe she started to take it out on her son, and eventually killed him. Although that still doesn't explain why that chipunk guy was there, and what the relevance of all the accidents that happened at the park were.

"Chipmunk."

[ChozMcSquoz]

Now, hang on. I really, really doubt that she killed her son. I may just be a Mister Happy Rainbows Sunshine kind of person, but that's not the impression I got at all. You see, for people in this situation, usually they end up feeling like they have no control over their lives: husband dies, bad parents, shock therapy, all this physical and mental wringing of the senses is making her believe that she can't do anything for anyone, hence some of the voice lines when she's in the drug world, LSD trip, or whatever you want to call it. "I'm sorry, Callum..." "I can't protect you?" This does NOT sound like a mother who killed her own son. This sounds an awful lot like a mother who LOST a child. I think what happened is this: the event that we see at the beginning really happened. Her son ran into The Park and she lost him. Now, she's revisiting this moment due to the investigation the cops are conducting trying to FIND him. The boogeyman? That guy is a representation of the person that Lorainne is afraid of becoming: a monster. The chipmunk guy represents the hatred she feels toward the world and her lot in life. Those two characters only appear together once, and that's when she has the ice pick in her hands and Callum is on the table. This represents the fact that, by the end of her vision, hallucination, daydream, haunted psycho trip, whatever you care to entitle it, she feels like she's a monster and she hates herself: she lost her husband, her son, her life: she's severely depressed. This is a woman who, just like many other mothers, lost their young child in a theme park. Many find their missing children, many don't. If it drags on too long, most go to the police, which is what she has done. But she says: "In my heart and mind, I always return to Atlantic Island Park." This means that she's constantly imagining Atlantic Island Park as this land of nightmares, full of hauntings from her own past, full of demons and monsters that represent her innermost fears and skeletons in the closet. She has devolved what was once a place of beauty and wonder into a horror land in her mind. Every time I screw up badly in regards to whatever, I always spend a while imagining what could have happened: what might have happened instead. Lorainne is doing the same thing, except she can't get past the depression she's feeling to make these daydreams happy endings, which is why "she always returns to Atlantic Island Park." It's almost like she's obsessed with trying to find a happy ending, like in the Hansel and Gretle story, but she knows that she never will: that her son is gone, and she is in no position of power or circumstance to save him. She's the hero through her whole daydream, right up until the end, when she kills him: when the stone-cold reality sets in that, in all truthfulness, she didn't save him. She couldn't. She failed. And THAT is the story of The Park.

[Mistral]

Originally posted by Dr. FrankenMax:

Now, hang on. I really, really doubt that she killed her son. I may just be a Mister Happy Rainbows Sunshine kind of person, but that's not the impression I got at all. You see, for people in this situation, usually they end up feeling like they have no control over their lives: husband dies, bad parents, shock therapy, all this physical and mental wringing of the senses is making her believe that she can't do anything for anyone, hence some of the voice lines when she's in the drug world, LSD trip, or whatever you want to call it. "I'm sorry, Callum..." "I can't protect you?" This does NOT sound like a mother who killed her own son. This sounds an awful lot like a mother who LOST a child. I think what happened is this: the event that we see at the beginning really happened. Her son ran into The Park and she lost him. Now, she's revisiting this moment due to the investigation the cops are conducting trying to FIND him. The boogeyman? That guy is a representation of the person that Lorainne is afraid of becoming: a monster. The chipmunk guy represents the hatred she feels toward the world and her lot in life. Those two characters only appear together once, and that's when she has the ice pick in her hands and Callum is on the table. This represents the fact that, by the end of her vision, hallucination, daydream, haunted psycho trip, whatever you care to entitle it, she feels like she's a monster and she hates herself: she lost her husband, her son, her life: she's severely depressed. This is a woman who, just like many other mothers, lost their young child in a theme park. Many find their missing children, many don't. If it drags on too long, most go to the police, which is what she has done. But she says: "In my heart and mind, I always return to Atlantic Island Park." This means that she's constantly imagining Atlantic Island Park as this land of nightmares, full of hauntings from her own past, full of demons and monsters that represent her innermost fears and skeletons in the closet. She has devolved what was once a place of beauty and wonder into a horror land in her mind. Every time I screw up badly in regards to whatever, I always spend a while imagining what could have happened: what might have happened instead. Lorainne is doing the same thing, except she can't get past the depression she's feeling to make these daydreams happy endings, which is why "she always returns to Atlantic Island Park." It's almost like she's obsessed with trying to find a happy ending, like in the Hansel and Gretle story, but she knows that she never will: that her son is gone, and she is in no position of power or circumstance to save him. She's the hero through her whole daydream, right up until the end, when she kills him: when the stone-cold reality sets in that, in all truthfulness, she didn't save him. She couldn't. She failed. And THAT is the story of The Park.

If Steam has a like button on comments, I would totally click on it.

[The Knight of Faerie]

Originally posted by Dr. FrankenMax:

Now, hang on. I really, really doubt that she killed her son. I may just be a Mister Happy Rainbows Sunshine kind of person, but that's not the impression I got at all. You see, for people in this situation, usually they end up feeling like they have no control over their lives: husband dies, bad parents, shock therapy, all this physical and mental wringing of the senses is making her believe that she can't do anything for anyone, hence some of the voice lines when she's in the drug world, LSD trip, or whatever you want to call it. "I'm sorry, Callum..." "I can't protect you?" This does NOT sound like a mother who killed her own son. This sounds an awful lot like a mother who LOST a child. I think what happened is this: the event that we see at the beginning really happened. Her son ran into The Park and she lost him. Now, she's revisiting this moment due to the investigation the cops are conducting trying to FIND him. The boogeyman? That guy is a representation of the person that Lorainne is afraid of becoming: a monster. The chipmunk guy represents the hatred she feels toward the world and her lot in life. Those two characters only appear together once, and that's when she has the ice pick in her hands and Callum is on the table. This represents the fact that, by the end of her vision, hallucination, daydream, haunted psycho trip, whatever you care to entitle it, she feels like she's a monster and she hates herself: she lost her husband, her son, her life: she's severely depressed. This is a woman who, just like many other mothers, lost their young child in a theme park. Many find their missing children, many don't. If it drags on too long, most go to the police, which is what she has done. But she says: "In my heart and mind, I always return to Atlantic Island Park." This means that she's constantly imagining Atlantic Island Park as this land of nightmares, full of hauntings from her own past, full of demons and monsters that represent her innermost fears and skeletons in the closet. She has devolved what was once a place of beauty and wonder into a horror land in her mind. Every time I screw up badly in regards to whatever, I always spend a while imagining what could have happened: what might have happened instead. Lorainne is doing the same thing, except she can't get past the depression she's feeling to make these daydreams happy endings, which is why "she always returns to Atlantic Island Park." It's almost like she's obsessed with trying to find a happy ending, like in the Hansel and Gretle story, but she knows that she never will: that her son is gone, and she is in no position of power or circumstance to save him. She's the hero through her whole daydream, right up until the end, when she kills him: when the stone-cold reality sets in that, in all truthfulness, she didn't save him. She couldn't. She failed. And THAT is the story of The Park.

First of all, would you please break these long text blocks up into actual paragraphs? It makes things easier for people to read. In fact I had to copy/paste this and break it up just to get through it all.

"I'm sorry, Callum..." "I can't protect you?" This does NOT sound like a mother who killed her own son. This sounds an awful lot like a mother who LOST a child. I think what happened is this: the event that we see at the beginning really happened. Her son ran into The Park and she lost him. Now, she's revisiting this moment due to the investigation the cops are conducting trying to FIND him. The boogeyman? That guy is a representation of the person that Lorainne is afraid of becoming: a monster.

This could be an interesting theory. WIth more lore learned in The Secret World though it falls apart in one aspect. The Boogieman is real. That's what Winters turned himself into in his bid for immortality. But he can't be seen normally. You need to be either a ghost or to enter a sub dimension to see him. Which heavily implies that the events in The Park take place in a pocket dimension created by Winter's park.

The chipmunk guy represents the hatred she feels toward the world and her lot in life. Those two characters only appear together once, and that's when she has the ice pick in her hands and Callum is on the table. This represents the fact that, by the end of her vision, hallucination, daydream, haunted psycho trip, whatever you care to entitle it, she feels like she's a monster and she hates herself: she lost her husband, her son, her life: she's severely depressed.

Not too sure what the significance of Chad is myself. But I'm fairly sure he's not a product of her imagination. It might be that the chipmonk killer's spirit is trapped in the park. Not sure.

This is a woman who, just like many other mothers, lost their young child in a theme park. Many find their missing children, many don't. If it drags on too long, most go to the police, which is what she has done. But she says: "In my heart and mind, I always return to Atlantic Island Park." This means that she's constantly imagining Atlantic Island Park as this land of nightmares, full of hauntings from her own past, full of demons and monsters that represent her innermost fears and skeletons in the closet.

Point is that the 'cop' isn't actually a police officer. The office she's talking to him in is not the Kingsmouth Police Station. He's a Council of Venice agent. And again, the park actually is haunted. Winters haunts the park as a boogieman. Spirits of those who died there haunt it too. And the spirits of every child killed in the park are trapped there feeding Winter's power. What she's saying is that she keeps returning to the park in her thoughts. She feels guilt for what happened there, and possibly thinks she actually did kill her son.

This year's Holloween event in TSW is an eplogue to The Park set years later. In it you learn that the bee in the jar at the end of The Park was forced into her. She then spent the intervening years conscripted as a Council of Venice agent. She also tried over and over to commit suicide, failing each time due to the bee making her immortal. Eventually she found a method that would work this year.

I gave my take on what might be going on a few pages back. The fact is though that you can't dismiss the supernatural aspects out of hand. In the world of The Secret World the supernatural is very real and very dangerous. Atlantic Island Park is a giant machine designed to gather energy in a bid to make Winters immortal. He planned to use positive energy to fuel this machine. But he made a very critical mistake. He chose Solomon Island for the location.

Solomon Island is a highly mystical place. Even when there aren't apocolyptic events in motion it has problems with cultists and monsters. This is because the island it's self contains a wellspring of corruption that was sealed centuries ago by the combined forces of the local native american tribe and the vikings. Winters built his park on Solomon Island to tap into that wellspring, not understanding the nature of it. This in turn corrupted his machine into something far more malicous. And as it channeled power into Winters, he too became more corrupt. Eventually this turned him into a boogieman.

[Veraxus]

Ten pages of discussion!? I actually thought the clues painted a fairly clear picture.

Background (TSW):

The island has always bubbled with dark anima... with history far deeper and older than we know... perhaps it is the site of a broken Gaia Engine, leaking and creaking just beneath the surface of our world.

Archibald Henderson had a natural (and EXTREMELY powerful) innate magical ability (think Carter in The Secret World). After the Illuminati attempted to recruit and "train" him at Innsmouth Academy, he went on to become a renowned and notoriously feckless sorcerer. Eventually, he decided he wanted nothing more to do with magic or the dark, monstrous things it attracted, and retired to a simple farm life near his old academy, on the land that would later become the Atlantic Island Park. He met a woman, was married, and had several children.

But in a place as ancient and evil as Solomon Island, things never stay happy. He lost his family to tragedy, suicide, and madness… until only his youngest daughter remained. He became madly overprotective, conjuring all manner of dark powers and constructs to protect his kith and kin.

Nevertheless, one day, in the pumpkin patch, Archibald discovered his farmhand, named "Jack the Lad", bent over the mutilated corpse of Archibald's last, and youngest daughter. In a blind rage, Archibald unleashed the full force of his magic on Jack in the farm's pumpkin patch, creating the undying monster that would later come to be known as Jack O Lantern. Only after would Archibald realize that his own creations, which he had intended to protect, had done the murder... his daughter had only snuck out to rendezvous with the farmhand, who loved her.

In despair, Archibald killed himself. But the ancient land was all more the more tainted by his magic.

The Park:

A hundred years later, billionaire and occultist Nathaniel Winter discovered the site and immediately knew it's power. He began to build an amusement park there, much to the confusion and ridicule of his Wall Street fellows. But Winter wasn't interested in monetary profit, the park was to be a magical machine, siphoning anima (life energy) from unsuspecting park goers and channeling it into himself... a mad attempt at eternal life.

But the land was saturated with the blood, anima, and magic of Henderson and his family… the dark forces mingling with old spells and worse. The construction of the park was beleaguered by the lasting, latent effects of Henderson's tragedies.

Lorraine:

Like Archibald Henderson, Lorraine had a hard and terrible childhood. Her father was violent, domineering, and abusive. Her mother left him and had filed for sole custody, but Lorraine's father kidnapped her and her mother never saw her again, assuming she had voluntarily run away.

As an adult, Lorraine, now a waitress at the local diner, met a construction worker named Don and the two hit it off immediately. Theirs was a sudden, unexpected fairy-tale romance and they soon moved in together. After being together for just a few months, Lorraine discovered that she was pregnant. Although unexpected and unplanned, the two accepted and embraced it. But shortly after with Lorraine only three months pregnant, Don was killed in one of the park's many suspicious and tragic construction accidents, plummeting from the top of the Ferris Wheel.

Finding herself in financial trouble from the sudden loss of her SO and the unexpected pregnancy, the fairy tale romance had become a different kind of fairy tale. First, she was denied any of Don's estate, since the two were not married. Don's parents inherited everything and, even after having been briefed on Lorraine's relationship and position, the parents decided to give her nothing, denying even that her child was their son's.

Lorraine broke down, her depression so severe that she was briefly institutionalized. While in the hospital, she gave birth and the child was placed in foster care. Lorraine was treated with a course of EST (electric shock therapy) and discharged. Callum (so named according to Don's wishes as a name for a boy) was then returned to her. She was allowed to return to work at the diner and a local volunteered to watch Callum as she worked.

At some point she reached out to her mother to see if she would like to meet her grandson. Her callous and stubborn mother, still believing that Lorraine ran away voluntarily, not only declines, but tells Lorraine that she wants nothing to do with her and can't forgive her for "running away", telling Lorraine to "never contact me again".

Lorraine slowly begins to relapse into depression, and is given a prescription for "Zolift" (an obvious analog for the real-world drug Zoloft), which is used to treat depression, anxiety, panic attack disorder, etc. The crushing weight of her depression and the responsibility of being a single mother drives her to abuse the drug. Actual, real-world side effects of Zoloft abuse can include: paranoia, hostility, aggression, violent thoughts, irritability, etc. Slowly, Lorraine transformed from a loving mother to a distant, uncaring, violent, neglectful parent like her father… but in her drug-fueled haze she didn't realize it. She noticed the changes in Callum that her own transformation had wrought, but was oblivious to her role in it.

Instead of buying food, she bought more Zolift. Instead of paying bills, she bought more Zolift and alcohol. The bills piled up, electricity was turned off, and deep in her mind she blamed Callum for all her difficulties and suffering. One day, while visiting the park, spurred by the haze of drugs, postpartum blame, and the constant drain of the anima syphon (i.e. The Park), she just walked away, and left Callum at the park.

The dismembered child's body found behind the stand was Callum's. His spirit now trapped in the The Park.

Additional Observations:

It's a safe bet that Lorraine left Callum at the park since ghost-Callum can be heard whispering things like "why did you ditch me?" Thematically, this is the Hansel & Gretel parallel to leaving the children in the forest. Lorraine is the evil mother.

The Boogieman is Nathaniel Winter. The Anima Syphon / park gave him the eternal life he sought, but not quite as he expected. In the secret world, nothing is so simple as "mere" immortality, and his new form reflects the type of magic he employed to achieve it (devouring joy and life/anima to sustain himself).

Chad / Steve may be Lorraine's drunk, abusive father. We never get Lorraine's last name, as far as I can tell, but I would guess that it's Gardener.

Lorraine has a touch of the gift herself. The night in which the game takes place is the Boogie Man's realm. It's real (not just in her head), but it takes someone with the gift to enter.

Lorraine feels complicit in her son's death because, on some level, she knew she was feeding him to the park.

The ice pick is Chad's tool. The last creepy scene is not literal, but it is real (Boogieman's realm). The Boogieman is helping Lorraine see that she truly is responsible. He may have guided her hand, but she ultimately sacrificed her child on her own. She is as responsible for Callum's death as if she had killed him herself. I believe her wielding the tool is also another hint about her following in her father's (Chad/Steve) footsteps.

In the very final scene, Lorraine is about to be "recruited" by an agent (who is immortal), who obviously senses her gift. The bee is special - a manifestation of gaia. When ingested, it grants the person immortality.

[Stedios]

Originally posted by Veraxus:

Ten pages of discussion!? I actually thought the clues painted a fairly clear picture.


The Boogieman is Nathaniel Winter. The Anima Syphon / park gave him the eternal life he sought, but not quite as he expected. In the secret world, nothing is so simple as "mere" immortality, and his new form reflects the type of magic he employed to achieve it (devouring joy and life/anima to sustain himself).

Hows that tie in with Nathanial being an alive person in TSW game?, is he manifested in two forms?
Good analysis either way.

[Veraxus]

Originally posted by Stedios:

Hows that tie in with Nathanial being an alive person in TSW game?, is he manifested in two forms?
Good analysis either way.

But Winter isn't "alive" in TSW. He vanished (or "vanished") and left everything to his son. There's an entire investigation mission (Gravity) dedicated to it.

[Stedios]

Originally posted by Veraxus:

Originally posted by Stedios:

Hows that tie in with Nathanial being an alive person in TSW game?, is he manifested in two forms?
Good analysis either way.

But Winter isn't "alive" in TSW. He vanished (or "vanished") and left everything to his son. There's an entire investigation mission (Gravity) dedicated to it.

Sorry my bad that is Nicholas Winter, Nathanial winters son "The park had a short run - opening in 1978 and closing in 1980 - after a series of freak accidents and ending with a crazed park employee in a chipmunk costume stabbing several visitors.

Nathaniel disappeared soon after the park closed, and has not been seen since. He left a wife (Elizabeth Rachel Knox) and three children, a son (Nicholas Winter) and two daughters Madeleine and Caroline Winter in Boston. "

[ex'ratt]

You really want to see the Video of the recent Developer-Stream, where they played through the game and talked a lot about meanings and what their intention was behind many of the decisions they made: http://www.twitch.tv/funcom/v/27516265

So, for example: The dead child in the park is not Callum (and was intentionally made larger than Callum, so people would not think it might be him). Chad and the Boogieman are parts of Lorraine herself (desires vs instincts, Cerebral cortex vs basal ganglia), which is hinted at on one of the books. When Lorraine takes the pills in the park, she actually does not have some kind of drug-trip, but gets stabilized - and she starts to see parts of the real world. The game is about raising awareness of postpartum depression, which is more common than you might think.

[Deezlar]

Her first words and last words were "In my head and heart, I always return to Atlantic Island Park"

To me that says its all in her head, and we are playing through her memories, as she tries to rally herself to answer the questions of the investigator.

The Boogieman is her depression, something that I thought was very well done on the rollercoaster, where it lurks just behind her whispering into her ear.

She was clearly a very broken person.. She hated and loved her son, but the ever increasing use of anti-depressants wasn't working so she killed him in the closed down amusement park.

Child Murdering Chipmunk was there as if the body was found it would just be another killing in the Park.

Btw, did anyone else really look at the Rubiks Cube in the PT sequense? I thought that was perfectly done!

"See her Try"
"See him die"
"See her Lie"

This suggests she is going to lie or has been lying about the kids death.

Also, a clear indication of when she killed her son (in the 80s) as there are multiple references to that time period, in her dress style (dem jeans) the Rubiks Cube, the Balancing ball thing....

Fantastic expereince.

[Supertramp2012]

Originally posted by exratt:

You really want to see the Video of the recent Developer-Stream, where they played through the game and talked a lot about meanings and what their intention was behind many of the decisions they made: http://www.twitch.tv/funcom/v/27516265

So, for example: The dead child in the park is not Callum (and was intentionally made larger than Callum, so people would not think it might be him). Chad and the Boogieman are parts of Lorraine herself (desires vs instincts, Cerebral cortex vs basal ganglia), which is hinted at on one of the books. When Lorraine takes the pills in the park, she actually does not have some kind of drug-trip, but gets stabilized - and she starts to see parts of the real world. The game is about raising awareness of postpartum depression, which is more common than you might think.

Thanks for the "referral"! It was over 2 hours long, but well worth the viewing. I wish they had the time to discuss everything they wanted to say. I guess I could check out the website....