Arguably the best strategy

[Riggler]

Use mainly engineers and no combat units
When you think about it, they are cheap and needed for in the beginning and can heal themselves and build in combat making for less losses. They can also eat up experimental a pretty fast and capture non defended or lightly defended buildings or units as they attack as well as are able to immediately build mass extractors as they conquer.
They can also set up well defended outposts in under a minute and the turrets being turrets deal a lot of damage. And, if they reclaim they get mass for attacking and if they capture they gat a new unit, being more efficient than blowing it up.
I have tested it in a big and small game against normals and it works quickly if you know what your doing.

[Zesc]

Ehem...

Indeed, Mass spammed Cybran Engies with the Pulselaser upgrade are neat in smaller numbers to ASSIST you main force, but did you ever tried your strategy once in PvP? Against players which have more than 5 hours in the game?

In the time you need to build your "well defended outpost", you're alraedy overrun by lots of combat units.

And how exactly can Engies be considered "cheap"? They cost 68M|140E, whilst a Loyalist only costs 40M|100E. And a Loyalists can kill Engies before getting captured 8except for Aeon sac-cap).

Please tell me this thread is a joke...

[Riggler]

Originally posted by Zesc7:

Ehem...

Indeed, Mass spammed Cybran Engies with the Pulselaser upgrade are neat in smaller numbers to ASSIST you main force, but did you ever tried your strategy once in PvP? Against players which have more than 5 hours in the game?

In the time you need to build your "well defended outpost", you're alraedy overrun by lots of combat units.

And how exactly can Engies be considered "cheap"? They cost 68M|140E, whilst a Loyalist only costs 40M|100E. And a Loyalists can kill Engies before getting captured 8except for Aeon sac-cap).

Please tell me this thread is a joke...

It's not, I have not tried it in pvp so maybe it's a best strategy for al enemies but that needs to be tested.
With 9 engines making 9 buildings all at once it's very hard to attack and defeat them completely, especially if there are hundreds of engies. Also, 10 loyalists easily get wrecker by a turret with an engie healing it and under a minute to zoom out and decide to build a turret there either by radar detection of no fog of war. The anti land turrets are I believe around 230 mass and an engie is a mere 68 mass (energy unaccounted for due to the extreme accessibility) meaning the power to kill 10+ loyalists with prep is only 298 mass vs the 400 mass of the loyalists. And you could then reclaim the turret for a refund or get an army of engines and take the mass of the loyalists for yourself with rapid reclaiming.

The "well defended outposts" are built before the enemy can make a good army to counter it, and being well defended it can substain a heavy attack (the engies also reclaim experimentals extremely fast, I had a bunch and I took the mass of a fatboy in around 3 or less seconds)

There is also the capturing of bases that make base production cheaper and with the reclaiming and relatively cheap price the engies are more effective and economy efficient.

And by "lots of combat units" you mean more engineers right? 😅

If I can I would share a replay, can I?

[Riggler]

They have a few videos online of 50 engies taking out a monkey lord and stuff.

[Zesc]

Okay, against AI, basically every strategy is "arguably the best". AIs are dumb as Bread and just waiting for their death.

AIs can be easily tricked, and they do not micro at all. They send their units in masses into sure death by PDs instead of using MMLs, they do not defends their ACU even when under heavy fire, they don't do anything to react to your strategies.

But i still guess this tactic will still fail against Cheating AIs, they can pump out units countinously and blast all your Engies away.

Surely you can send me a Replay, but i only accept dropboxlinks (cause you can see the file type and be 99.99% sure it's not a virus).

[Riggler]

On your profile it says that you actively play multiplayer in supcom 2,
So I ask you to just try it a few times and after that if you still think it's crap then you have a much more powerful argument and proof or disproof that your ideas are right.

[Ceejay]

I have to agree with Zesc7, I really cannot see how this will work pvp against even a half experianced player.
As has been pointed out ai's do not micromange, they also do not defend themselves or their units.
Another thing about playing against ai is, you get enough time to turtle, against a human, you simply do not, at least if they are a half decent player.

There are so many ways to counter this.

For instance, reclaiming a monkey lord, while indeed an ai does oftern send 1 experimental at a time, by itself, a human will just take several experimentals, leave them out of range of your engineers and kill them from a distance, if you try to get close they will use other ground/air units to defend them.

Also what is an engineer going to do against a row of loyalty guns, nothing.

Speaking of air, engineers will be useless against them also. If your turtling and just using engineers, you will get simply get ecu sniped by air.

There are so many reasons engineers alone, just are not good enough, support role great yes, but not as a primary unit.

Take a look at some of Mr Stealurgurl's competition videos and you will see how quickly some players can get an army together and attack, you can easily overwhelm an enemy before they have built enough turrets to wall themselves in.

Instead of using your tatic against normals (which really are bad) try against hards.

[Riggler]

k ill try hard, also you want to try to build turrets as you go, so if theres a group of bombers, build up a bunch of turrets (that you can do quickly) to defeat them, and artillery to get things from a distance (fortified for uef and tactile missiles for aeon, dont play as cybran with this strategy)
and as I said above, just try it! you might be suprised.

[Ceejay]

What your overlooking is at the start of a game, you have no idea what your opposition is playing as.

If they go all out land, and you have put quite a few air turrets down, you wont have enough resources to build enough anti-ground turrets to stop him, and vice versa. Especially if you are pumping out loads of engineers at the same time. Your resources will be getting eaten up.

A human will have 2 or 3 factories pumping out units from the start and attacking you straight away. Where as the ai does not,

You wont have time to turtle and if you have a mix of turrets you wont have enough of each type to stop a human attack if they have gone all out in either air or land. Also generally they will have scouted you, so they will know what turrets you have gone with and switch attacks etc.

I can totally understand why it works against normal ai 1v1, but pvp with no rush timer, or against multiple enemies, I just cannot see how it can work.

edit,

if your looking at something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePc_UgUn1c

Then that should not work pvp, your not being attacked, against a human who is experianced in pvp, they are not going to sit and wait for you, they will attack from the start.

For instance I would have gone air, and could have sniped his commander with bombers, it was just sitting there without any protection. 1 turret on the factory would not save his commander.

Also a cybran commander with area effect on his weapon will totally destroy a large group of engineers with no difficulty at all. So you could use him to defend against engineers and destroy buildings with long range rocket lauchers/mobile artilery/air etc..

[Riggler]

Originally posted by Ceejay:

What your overlooking is at the start of a game, you have no idea what your opposition is playing as.

If they go all out land, and you have put quite a few air turrets down, you wont have enough resources to build enough anti-ground turrets to stop him, and vice versa. Especially if you are pumping out loads of engineers at the same time. Your resources will be getting eaten up.

A human will have 2 or 3 factories pumping out units from the start and attacking you straight away. Where as the ai does not,

You wont have time to turtle and if you have a mix of turrets you wont have enough of each type to stop a human attack if they have gone all out in either air or land. Also generally they will have scouted you, so they will know what turrets you have gone with and switch attacks etc.

I can totally understand why it works against normal ai 1v1, but pvp with no rush timer, or against multiple enemies, I just cannot see how it can work.

edit,

if your looking at something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePc_UgUn1c

Then that should not work pvp, your not being attacked, against a human who is experianced in pvp, they are not going to sit and wait for you, they will attack from the start.

For instance I would have gone air, and could have sniped his commander with bombers, it was just sitting there without any protection. 1 turret on the factory would not save his commander.

Also a cybran commander with area effect on his weapon will totally destroy a large group of engineers with no difficulty at all. So you could use him to defend against engineers and destroy buildings with long range rocket lauchers/mobile artilery/air etc..

I tried the hard AI and got real close, gotta figure out how to add a pic
with more practice I think I might have won

try online multiplayer with other people and test it!

[Riggler]

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/278473670197761660/AB10CB978D67E7888FBD4FFC1BAB6FEEC4E1BE07/
I got a higher score against the hard AI

[Zesc]

Originally posted by Rwegames:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/278473670197761660/AB10CB978D67E7888FBD4FFC1BAB6FEEC4E1BE07/
I got a higher score against the hard AI

You can send next time the way shorter link to your Screenshot instead of the pure png.-file, but whatever.

Playing against the AI is still no real argument, but it is surely interesting to try tis strategy simply for the sake of the challenge.

Against human players, i tried this method and i got rekt. Tyranosaurus rekt.
If you get killed by a Brackman-rush, than you really screwed up. (And trust me, i'm experienced enough to not get Brackman-rushed, except by Alphahex.)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=686936689

Now i would like to point out one thing: What do you do if your enemy decides to turtle up and spam PDs? The most nooby tactic in this game, what do you do? Surely, you could use Jump-Jets or teleport in, but still, your engies get destroyed before you can capture a single PD.
If a strategy fails to kill a PD-turtler, than it is really bad.

[Riggler]

Yeah, I also tried it in multiplayer and got the same outcome

So maybe it works well when you have a good defense and are defending against someone who constantly rushes you or like you said to have them back up an army and build along the way.

But you can't deny the gaining of mass during an attack is pretty good and the ability to quickly build is also, so you could make some strategy based off this but still having enough power to win.

[Deleted]

Rwegames, believe me, the best strategy is going adaptive, you can use engies in combat too, but always have an army. Mix engies with your combat units, build fire bases and reclaim as you advance with your army, but going purely engies is NOT going to work in any way against players that know what they're doing.

Try Cybran with a couple of cannon upgraded engies mixed in your army, that might be a good start to get practiced. I personally avoid mixing engies in my army because it requires a lot of micro, something I'm still practicing with.

[Riggler]

What are fire bases? And exactly what is adaptive other than basing your moves off of the opponent? Examples?

[Riggler]

Thank you all for the feedback too! I'm gonna try to make some strategy that uses engineers so I can have the benefits said above as well as still have a powerful attack force too.