Can AI see through fog of war?

[Coach]

Initially Im sure AI couldnt do that. I checked online and players were saying AI cannot see through fog of wars, they have the same limitations as the player, which was fantastic news.

However today, I launched a dynamic campaign and everytime the game starts, the AI rushes with his tanks towards my exact position... I tested this several times, hiding in far away forest, proning. Yet the AI still drove fast, straight line towards my guy in the middle of the forest.

Can a dev or anyone please let me know if AI can indeed see through fog of war?
I have absolutely no desire to use the fog of war, if the AI is not subjected to the same limitations..

Im playing on Hardcore difficulty, and medium economy, very large map.
Any clarifications would be very welcomed!

[Coach]

Can someone address this once and for all.. There is absolutely no clear answer on the internet. Preferably a dev.

[Urk_da_WAAAGH!]

How do you know the AI drove directly at your units? If fog of war is on there's no way to know it, the most common assumption is that you took to long to push the objectives and the AI pushed to encounter your troops what will be specially easier if they are sitting close or on the way to your spawn area.

I say that because that happened to me, took a bit too long preparing my artillery pieces and the AI pushed and I know they didn't knew where I was because I for a fact saw them going into my spawn area (that I had left but had a few scouts with sight of it) before they turned and started looking for me around and only after another unit found troops the AI beelined towards my direction.

Another very common issue is players being spotted by units that they didn't spotted, when on a defensive battle you will notice some friendly AI units on bushes and other places, the enemy AI do the same when you are the attacker, they can very well be spotting your units and you have no idea they did so.

[Coach]

Thats interesting, you play with mods or none? Maybe that plays a factor.
From my side, I can 100% confirm that the enemy AI in my game sees through the fog of war, as I tested several maps, hiding with only 1 officer and waiting. It didnt take long at all, in less than 4 minutes the AI starts sending unit after unit to my exact location.

On the other hand, I am 100% sure on previous game versions, the AI was not able to see through the fog of war, as even when they are counter attacking, they would look for me in different places.

I would love to get a confirmation from a dev :/

[NearlyGroFAZ]

nah i doubt the AI can see through fog. if you're too close to their spawn or where they/re beelining away from spawn and to cap points then it's fairly easy for your prone inf to be spotted (spotted ~40m away prone, ~20m if in brush). don't be too close to path where their units will be traveling.

[Coach]

but i had only 1 officer during my test, i literally placed him in the middle of nowhere (no capture points anywhere nearby), in the middle of a thick forest..

Yet in a very short amount of time, as soon as the game started, the AI used a single armoured vehicle and drove straight at me (leaving the road, going off road, in a straight line directly towards me..

This happened over and over again. Surely I cant be the only one whom that happened to.

Im just very confused.

[BigstankNC]

I imagine the AI "gets" those little arrows when you spawn in the same way you do in defense missions so they know where you are. Only time I've ever been attacked like this is if I sat at spawn for a long time. AI uses spotters so unless you clear ahead with snipers or something you'd be easy to spot advancing too. So far I haven't noticed them being able to see what they shouldn't. I usually pop a scout near roads in vegetation on defense and they'll watch the whole enemy army go by and never get spotted usually.

[Kinakin]

While only the devs can answer this conclusivly. I would like to mention that there are a few mechanics beyond just fog of war in the game.

1. UInits can be seen by player in the fog of war:
There seems to be some kind of sound mechanic that lets you spot units that are in the fog of war. Usually artillery and units on the border of the FOW. This is what lets you do counter artillery fire. The mechanics and how the AI makes use of this is not known to me.

2. The AI does not spot all units:
I make use of scout units hidden in bushes all the time. The AI regularly drives past and does not engage. If they get close enough or the angle is right they will spot them however and will then engage.

3. The AI seems to scout/ do flanking manouvers.:
Trough use of hidden scouts. I have seen the AI send lone units to the flanks on occasion. I have seen different patterns. They will travel between cap zones controlled by AI. They will travel out to the flanks hold for a bit and then attack your flanks. This flank behavior does not happen in force. usallu light vechiles or small inf. units.

By personal experience I have seen the AI ignore hidden units to often and I am able to outflank guns and tanks with infantry. This makes it hard to belive that they can see them and choose to ignore them.

However It could be coding that says when they should ignore and when not to,, but honestly I am more of the belife that there are mechanics we dont fully know about how the AI chooses to do things.

[NearlyGroFAZ]

Originally posted by Coach:

but i had only 1 officer during my test, i literally placed him in the middle of nowhere (no capture points anywhere nearby), in the middle of a thick forest..

Yet in a very short amount of time, as soon as the game started, the AI used a single armoured vehicle and drove straight at me (leaving the road, going off road, in a straight line directly towards me..

This happened over and over again. Surely I cant be the only one whom that happened to.

Im just very confused.

something spotted you and then the armored car came over to kill i think. i really doubt an armored car 200+ meters away just knew you were there and bee lined over. i'll test in conquest myself rn

[kampfer91]

No . AI in this game obey the rule of fog of war even if you turn this off .

Try sneaking infantry . A.I only attack if one of them detect enemy.

[Overread]

Keep in mind the AI doesn't even "see" the game the same way that you do when you play.

For that reason sometimes AI can "see" everything and then have their behaviour adapted to account for that fact.


AI in video games is also made to be an opponent rather than made to be human-like (that requires VASTLY more computing power than your home PC can handle and way more technical skill than a video game developer is going to be able to pay for). So sometimes AI will "know where you are" so that it can provide a viable opponent.

Of course AI can also be made to scout - the Starcraft 2 AI shows this quite nicely in the early game. It might mean that the AI still knows where everything is to start with, but scouting allows it to respond to what it can see and such.



Suffice to say only someone who has opened up the AI code or a developer can really answer in full as ot how they've designed the AI to work and what benefits it can and cannot have.

I will say that often as not in RTS games the amount of "cheating" the AI does is often far less than what people think. Often its just that the AI knows all the game rules and uses them; so it can spot things that the player thinks are invisible; or it can use tactics and tricks that the player doesn't know are possible.

At the same time there are places where AI just needs help - eg often as not AI has "infinite resources" but has to use them in a limited fashion. Because making purchase choices requires forethought, which the AI can't do. Which is sometimes why in RTS Games the AI will build up faster if it has more resource points; but will often last far longer on very few resource points than a player would.

[Urk_da_WAAAGH!]

Originally posted by Coach:

Thats interesting, you play with mods or none? Maybe that plays a factor.
From my side, I can 100% confirm that the enemy AI in my game sees through the fog of war, as I tested several maps, hiding with only 1 officer and waiting. It didnt take long at all, in less than 4 minutes the AI starts sending unit after unit to my exact location.

On the other hand, I am 100% sure on previous game versions, the AI was not able to see through the fog of war, as even when they are counter attacking, they would look for me in different places.

I would love to get a confirmation from a dev :/

If you can 100% confirm then you are 100% wrong...

For real, the AI does patrol after a while to see your units, if you are just sitting in place then it is guaranteed they will eventually run into you, that's why asked how can you know the AI drove straight at you, because if fog of war is off and you don't have hidden scouts stalking the enemy vehicle from it's spawn is impossible for you to affirm that the AI drove straight at you without spotting with a hidden unit before.

As I said, just like the friendly AI has hidden units spotting the enemy movement the enemy AI does the same, you can very well have been spotted and the AI send the vehicle to patrol the area you were spotted at even if it lost sight after a while (what isn't guaranteed as you had no way to attest that it wasn't sitting on a bush 10 meters from your unit).

[Saxhorn]

The AI can find your units in some magical way.

There was a series of screenshots I posted in my Steam profile where I spawned only a single sniper in a brand new Conquest match. Day one I am attacking.

The sniper was set to hold fire. No shot was ever fired.

The sniper ran and hid in some far off part of the map well out of the field of view of the enemy.

There was a whole map for the enemy to search but they came to the corner of the map where he was hiding.

The sniper has the "stealth" bonus so he is one of the most difficult units to detect but the enemy soldiers found him anyway.

In Conquest once the AI uses a command called "seek" you can't hide from the AI. It will move straight towards you.

[Saxhorn]

Originally posted by Kinakin:

While only the devs can answer this conclusivly. I would like to mention that there are a few mechanics beyond just fog of war in the game.

1. UInits can be seen by player in the fog of war:
There seems to be some kind of sound mechanic that lets you spot units that are in the fog of war. Usually artillery and units on the border of the FOW. This is what lets you do counter artillery fire. The mechanics and how the AI makes use of this is not known to me.

2. The AI does not spot all units:
I make use of scout units hidden in bushes all the time. The AI regularly drives past and does not engage. If they get close enough or the angle is right they will spot them however and will then engage.

3. The AI seems to scout/ do flanking manouvers.:
Trough use of hidden scouts. I have seen the AI send lone units to the flanks on occasion. I have seen different patterns. They will travel between cap zones controlled by AI. They will travel out to the flanks hold for a bit and then attack your flanks. This flank behavior does not happen in force. usallu light vechiles or small inf. units.

By personal experience I have seen the AI ignore hidden units to often and I am able to outflank guns and tanks with infantry. This makes it hard to belive that they can see them and choose to ignore them.

However It could be coding that says when they should ignore and when not to,, but honestly I am more of the belife that there are mechanics we dont fully know about how the AI chooses to do things.

Are you playing Conquest here or some other game mode?

The AI behaves differently in Skirmish and Grand Campaign. Different logic is applied to control the units.

[NearlyGroFAZ]

Originally posted by Saxhorn:

The AI can find your units in some magical way.

There was a series of screenshots I posted in my Steam profile where I spawned only a single sniper in a brand new Conquest match. Day one I am attacking.

The sniper was set to hold fire. No shot was ever fired.

The sniper ran and hid in some far off part of the map well out of the field of view of the enemy.

There was a whole map for the enemy to search but they came to the corner of the map where he was hiding.

The sniper has the "stealth" bonus so he is one of the most difficult units to detect but the enemy soldiers found him anyway.

You can't hide from the AI.

sounds like you got unlucky with with a patrol. I'm not convinced the AI just randomly obeys and disobeys fow.

[Saxhorn]

Here's the log that goes with the screenshots you can find in my profile.

These are the commands the bot is issuing to it's units.

ctf = capture the flag

f1 f2 f3 f4 are the capture points A B C D etc on the map. Since this is day 1 there are only two flags active in this case f2 and f4,

donothing = should be able to work that out already

seek = USE MAGIC RADAR to find and go attack enemy

You will note when a unit is first spawned the AI appears to always issue a CTF order to the new unit. It appears to choose random flag.

Then it periodically issues a new order perhaps once it has "completed" the last order. So once squad 0 arrives at f4 a new order was issued to capture f4 again. So it looks like the unit sat at the f4 flag for a second "time".

Squad 4 is the ostruppen. They are the only unit with soldiers equipped with the Karabiner 98k (Bayonet).

Note at 24:35 squad 4 is issued seek
[00:24:35] [LUA] Print: [see_enemy] seek by squad 4 Player# 1

Also note less than three minutes later squad 4 has found my sniper and killed him
[00:27:32] [EVT] AI: Heroic Karabiner 98k (Bayonet) Saxhorn Sniper [KA]

That's basically the time it took for squad 4 to move on foot to where the sniper was. There was no searching they simply ran straight to where he was located.

You can time it all on the map in the editor if you want.

[00:21:45] [LUA] Print: AI Bot is player#1, nation ger, on team b which has 2 player(s)
[00:21:56] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 0 Player# 1 Flag name: f4 sicherung
[00:21:59] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 1 Player# 1 Flag name: f4 sicherung
[00:22:02] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 3 Player# 1 Flag name: f4 bmw_r71
[00:22:05] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 4 Player# 1 Flag name: f2 osttruppen
[00:22:12] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 7 Player# 1 Flag name: f2 kfz13
[00:23:49] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 8 Player# 1 Flag name: f4 single_at
[00:23:49] dbg: player#1 spawned single_at(ger) with cost 38. budget 86->48. totalAdd: 0, totalSpent: 452
[00:24:26] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 0 Player# 1 Flag name: f4
[00:24:29] [LUA] Print: [see_enemy] donothing by squad 1 Player# 1
[00:24:32] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 3 Player# 1 Flag name: f4
[00:24:35] [LUA] Print: [see_enemy] seek by squad 4 Player# 1
[00:24:42] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 7 Player# 1 Flag name: f4
[00:26:19] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 8 Player# 1 Flag name: f2
[00:26:56] [LUA] Print: [see_enemy] seek by squad 0 Player# 1
[00:26:59] [LUA] Print: [see_enemy] seek by squad 1 Player# 1
[00:27:02] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 3 Player# 1 Flag name: f4
[00:27:12] [LUA] Print: [notags] ctf by squad 7 Player# 1 Flag name: f2
[00:27:32] [EVT] AI: Heroic Karabiner 98k (Bayonet) Saxhorn Sniper [KA]
[00:27:32] Game stopped
[00:27:32] GameThreadStop