Tiger tank has no counter in mid-war

[Meadows]

The only way to destroy this tank is by dropping an airstrike on it or burning it with fire. Prove me wrong

[xenon]

Both Midwar and Late are Germoney territory.

There was a game about a week ago, 2x2 with randoms, Midwar. We actually managed to destroy a typical Braindead Toyger+smoke player with nothing but T-34-76 and Zis-2 (2x).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924200349

But the amount of effort it took us, and the amount of penetrations/hits to _side armor_ was ridiculous. Just look at how that Toyger is parked, and yet neither T-34 or Zis-2 could reliably penetrate it. I think T-34-76 cannot pen it at all, even at spitting distance and perfect angle. We probably fired 20 times at it.

60DP, and all the Soviets have is a 50DP meme canon on tracks (KV-2), and a useless casemate (SU-100Y for 55DP, meaning only 1 per game). 203mm is hilariously nerfed in accuracy, but then the Devs basically put the final nail in the coffin:

They add the absolutely meme 100% accuracy Karl nuke for I believe 55DP, and make sure the Soviet Defensive player cannot get 203mm+ML20 at the same time by raising the DP costs for both. In devs minds, 203mm is somehow more effective than Karl, therefore it costs something ridiculous like 70DP. Karl can also survive a hit from 203mm, which is just hilarious.

Plane is useless if the Toyger is not tracked and he has AA that works. Pair Karl with a Toyger and pretty much it's GG 9 times out of 10. I dunno if Soviets have 280mm nuke in Mid, but if they do, that's your best bet.

[Meadows]

Originally posted by xenon:

Both Midwar and Late are Germoney territory.

Late game is more balanced than the other two. But to think my only options for winning vs a tiger in midwar is Airstike, fire, or nukes... thats so stupid. My team and I surrounded a Tiger with T34s and KV-1s at point blank.. Nothing. Nothing pened. He spun his cannon and killed us all. There is nothing else on the menu we can use against this. Ruins the game.

[xenon]

As I typed there, 76mm cannot pen it. I have no idea where the devs pull their numbers from, but I'm sure a T-34 would penetrate 75mm of armor from point blank distance. They've done the same thing with 85mm canon, where it's just 1mm away from the perfect 100mm penetration, therefore RED and cannot pen.

The Toyger is simply such a meme tank at this point, even 122mm nerfed canons struggle a lot against it. This is part of the reason why I typed Late is also Germoney territory. Soviets have a lot of IS-2s that are nerfed on purpose, yet cost either the same or even more than their German counterparts. So in there you'll left with either 152mm pure luck shots, arty or planes. Same thing as Mid.

Just compare DP units for both in Late. 60DP KT, 50DP Jagdpanther, 50DP Sturmmorser, 45DP Panther G..... against the crappy nerfed 50DP IS-2, or 45DP ISU-152. The latter can be frontally killed by 75mm Pak40, or even Panzer 3N I believe.

[Meadows]

Originally posted by xenon:

As I typed there, 76mm cannot pen it. I have no idea where the devs pull their numbers from

In late game simple anti-tank rockets from infantry always work. Which is confusing when a tank cant do the job.

[xenon]

Well yes, Panzershrecks are amazing. Depends on what you're firing though, because in Late the Germans have Panzer 3 for 320mp that have armor against Panzershrecks. Same with Stugs and Panzer 4. Germans also have better Panzershrecks/Fausts.

They also get Pay2Win Pak43 in Late, and Jagdtiger.

The good thing about Soviets in Late is the RNG Andryusha, OP Assault Engineers, the 20DP 76mm meme HEAT canon, and the 280mm nuke. T-34-85 can also be decent. Just have to keep in mind that Germoney has an answer for all of these.

[General Max Hoffman]

if you tracked it and were able to surround it you could have used smoke, got a man to jump out of your vehicle and used a satchel charge or two. Guaranteed to destroy it or kill the crew. especially if thrown on top of the engine. or used the engineers and other units who have charges, or used a flamethrower. Also focus on disabling the gun when it is tracked. Get creative. Don't start calling for nerfing things, If peoples tigers start blowing up on them for nothing all the time, in singleplayer as well, that will really ruin the game. This whining crap ruined steel division 2. Calling for nerfing things always ruins games. people on the other side whined about KVs and IS2s constantly in this game and Steel division 2 as well, The way vehicles work is pretty good at this point. These are good strong vehicles to use on both sides, leave them alone, they can be destroyed with the right tactics. Unless you want everybody to end up with ♥♥♥♥ equipment that blows up at the drop of a hat

[xenon]

1) Nobody calls for nerfs here. The devs already nerfed enough.
2) You can get creative all you want, but so can your opponent. Your opponent has the luxury of not being creative as well.
3) "Get a man to jump out of your vehicle and satchel" that's brilliant. A lot of vehicles don't have satchels, the crew will get killed when it gets hit and by the time you can get a satchel out, that last guy will be killed too. Not to mention the range is small and the damage is mediocre, and if you fail, you wasted a bunch of MP on nothing and gave points to your enemy.
4) I don't think you understand how smoke works. You can see through smoke in a lot of cases, while hiding your own position. That's why Toyger is so good.

But yeah, just satchel bro... Meanwhile 203mm that lands right next to it:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924264552
(it didn't care)

[General Max Hoffman]

Well tigers usually get badly damaged and destroyed all the time by less than 203mm artillery. All tanks and pretty much all self propelled guns have satchels. Can't say the damage from satchels is small, using 2 is pretty much always a guaranteed kill for a heavy tank even if it lands beside it, 1 if you throw it right on the back of the engine. yes range is small obviously, its an option. Think ahead and get the satchels out of your tanks and give them to some of your guys before you go after the tiger. Some of the infantry units carry satchels, and smoke around the tiger would prevent your men getting shot from elsewhere while running around it. a risky move but it is a way to kill a tiger. mid war Germans only get 1 tiger and it costs 60dp. A zis 30 is a threat to a tiger if used right. artillery probably destroys most of them.

ISU 152, Su 100s, not to mention IS2s, Andryusha there's plenty of counter for a tiger in late period. and you have to use ambush tactics, game isn't just about sending your units head on 1 on 1 with the enemy's best equipment. It's meant to be a formidable opponent like it was in real life. anyway op is proved wrong. several more ways to kill it than dropping an airstrike on it or burning it with fire, which are extra valid counters to it as well.

[xenon]

Well no I wouldn't say "usually". 203mm are a crap shoot, it has to directly hit to do good damage/destroy, and it's pure RNG. It also costs a staggering 70DP which makes 0 sense, especially considering Karl is 55 and Toyger is 60.

Zis-30 is not a threat to Toyger at all.... Toyger can constantly bounce and tank 122mm shells. When I play as Toyger in Late, I have no fear going against IS-2s and in most cases win. In my experience, there's no way IS-2 can oneshot a Toyger due to shoddy mechanics, meanwhile the reverse can happen. Which again, makes you question why is IS-2 more expensive?....

SU-100 is awful. Nobody buys it for a good reason. OP wasn't "proven wrong" either.

[⇓S'lakk⇓]

Just track it or avoid it, very simple.. If you're playing domination, it's not that difficult to do- and battle zones, just move off the point the tiger is near/on.

[xenon]

That's probably the worst advise you can give... The maps in this game are not infinite. Very "simple" when you're being pushed all the way to the spawn.

[Wertox]

203-mm, KV-2, airstrike.
But no1 mention KV-1 are so bugged due to their armor

[xenon]

Toygers are far more buggier than KV. Germans also get KVs of their own, with meme Pak40 variant costing 50dp (basically mini-Toyger, buying available twice per match).

KV-2 has less range, long reload, less accuracy, far worse armor.

[General Max Hoffman]

Originally posted by xenon:

Well no I wouldn't say "usually". 203mm are a crap shoot, it has to directly hit to do good damage/destroy, and it's pure RNG. It also costs a staggering 70DP which makes 0 sense, especially considering Karl is 55 and Toyger is 60.

Zis-30 is not a threat to Toyger at all.... Toyger can constantly bounce and tank 122mm shells. When I play as Toyger in Late, I have no fear going against IS-2s and in most cases win. In my experience, there's no way IS-2 can oneshot a Toyger due to shoddy mechanics, meanwhile the reverse can happen. Which again, makes you question why is IS-2 more expensive?....

SU-100 is awful. Nobody buys it for a good reason. OP wasn't "proven wrong" either.

Op stated there were only 2 ways to kill a tiger mid war 1.fire and 2. airstrikes and challenged us saying prove me wrong. I think I have demonstrated other methods. thus his challenge has been met

[xenon]

Well of course, if you count Zis-30 and strats like ISIS-cars with satchels as a viable counter...