Armor schematics

[kensai606]

Hi,
Is there a source of diagrams we can study?
As there's no RNG it's kinda vital knowing where to shoot.
Ideally the ingame unit info could have the hit box schematics.
Cheers!

[CalvinJZ]

Well there's plenty of them on the internet, i mean, the GoH armor and module layout are not made up. Alternatively if you have WT, you can easily use the armor inspector there.

You can on google images search for something like "Tiger 1 interior", usually lotsa scale models pop up with cutaways where you can easily see every component.

Generally speaking (because well, it's handy if you forget the layout for a specific vehicle:

• crew is very much standardized: driver on the left of the hull (or middle if there's no bow MG) and a radio op/ bow mgunner on his right, in the turret left hand side, the gunner with commander at his back (depends again if it's a two or three man turret) with loader on the right (this is opposite if we talk about for instance US vehicles).
  
• For early vehicles: ammo is practically everywhere, but most sure shot will be on the rear bottom left and right of the fighting compartment
  
• For larger vehicles: ammo is usually stored on the wall sides and at the bottom of the fighting compartment or turret basket. Some vehicles (namely German heavy tanks) store ammo in their sponsons (the overhanging part of the hull above the tracks).
  
• Pretty sure you know where the engine is: pretty much always in the back, with exceptions: such as the Ferdinand, having the engine mounted in the front/center.
  
• Tracks... well i hope you can see them
  
• Transmission: the transmission is mounted on the side where the sprocket wheels are mounted: generally on the rear for Soviet vehicles and the front for German vehicles.
  
• turret ring: the turret ring is just the part where the turret and the hull meets: some are more visible than others
  
• gun and breech: the gun is visible so that's no problem, the breech is usually on the inside of the vehicle, it's part of the gun, some vehicles (Soviets ones mainly) have a bulge underneath their gun, that is part of their gun breech.

I think that covers about every component that can be damaged or destroyed.

[kensai606]

I think I know what a tank is, I worked on them for 22 years.
I was hoping for the schematics the game is running on because the modelling isn't going to be 100% accurate. The emphasis is that the game is detailed, accessing that information is crucial, no?
The ingame unit info is extremely limited, minimum and maximum armor values, that's it

[CalvinJZ]

Originally posted by kensai606:

I think I know what a tank is, I worked on them for 22 years.

Very nice! Modern tanks or WW2 vehicles?

Originally posted by kensai606:

I was hoping for the schematics the game is running on because the modelling isn't going to be 100% accurate. The emphasis is that the game is detailed, accessing that information is crucial, no?
The ingame unit info is extremely limited, minimum and maximum armor values, that's it

Well, so far pretty much all the armor models are spot on, so your knowledge carries over. If you want a more detailed look into what's actually used tho, you can dig into the game files to look throught the armor thicknesses. I think it's incredibly hard to do some armor inspection mode (like WT) in this game engine, but maybe one day.

Still, using armor schematics founds on the the internet are pretty much sufficient. GoH has seperate armor thickness for lower plates, upper plates, roof armor, mantlet and whatever extra it got. Also hitboxes are much better, so return rollers and tracks for instance don't soak up shots that would've before in MoWas2.

[kensai606]

I started out on Chieftain, then Challenger 1 and finished on Challenger 2. I miss those days.
I guess I'll use the schematics I have and see how they fit this game.

[[Cokes] Danish]

I would use war thunder since its free and its machines are pretty close to reality. In general shooting where the driver is a good bet. do keep in mind that many early war tanks has low velocity cannons so they might be tricky to aim

[kensai606]

Have you tried killing the Kv1S in the German mission? I basically beat the tank to death. I only killed it by an eventual point blank shot from the rear.

[CalvinJZ]

Originally posted by kensai606:

Have you tried killing the Kv1S in the German mission? I basically beat the tank to death. I only killed it by an eventual point blank shot from the rear.

Ye, the KV-1 (not the 1S i think in the mission) is a tough nut to crack. But that's also mainly because you get "inadequate" weaponary to fight it. I used lotsa smoke to prevent it from firing at me, while i shot a couple of APCR rounds (on the Pz38t) very surgically on the flat side armor. Additionally it's usually very handy to pummel the tracks and gun, so that it's effectively also a kill.

You can also use satchel charges or the Pz4's HEAT round (i think it has around 80mm or pen, that should be enough too for a flat side shot or flat turret shot). Actually the Jagdpanzer 1 is also probably more than adequate of doing the same (at close ranges).

[Alpha]

not sure if it helps and fit, but i compare the tank diagrams from World of Tanks and War Thunder to Men of War, it is not 100 fitting, bit give you a clue where weak spots are. but i am not sure, if MoW or yet CtA and GoH have such a detailed model with different zones - or do they say : front 500mm, side 220mm, rear 50mm (just for an example) ? i definatle know that you can destroy different things on the tanks - but hitting the driver with one hull breaking shot - i am not sure if this is possible

MoW had a manual with a few information about this

----------------- Man of War AS 2 Manual -----------------
(sorry it is from google translator - cause i have to hurry and go to work ... )

Use armor-piercing ammunition to attack armored vehicles. Such as your weapon ca-liber, the armor level of your opponent, the hitting angle and the distance to the target all determine whether your ammunition penetrates or ricochets off the target. Smaller caliber ammunition cannot do much against thicker armor. Grazing shots are less visible than hits from a straight angle, and the longer a cartridge is over longer distances, the more destructive it is.
---------------------------------

https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/244450/manuals/Men_of_War-Assault_squad2-manual-VIEW-GER.pdf?t=1619788077

ah... missing the good old manual time :)

a note from the devs could help here :)

[CalvinJZ]

Originally posted by Alpha:

not sure if it helps and fit, but i compare the tank diagrams from World of Tanks and War Thunder to Men of War, it is not 100 fitting, bit give you a clue where weak spots are. but i am not sure, if MoW or yet CtA and GoH have such a detailed model with different zones - or do they say : front 500mm, side 220mm, rear 50mm (just for an example) ? i definatle know that you can destroy different things on the tanks - but hitting the driver with one hull breaking shot - i am not sure if this is possible

MoW had a manual with a few information about this

----------------- Man of War AS 2 Manual -----------------
(sorry it is from google translator - cause i have to hurry and go to work ... )

Use armor-piercing ammunition to attack armored vehicles. Such as your weapon ca-liber, the armor level of your opponent, the hitting angle and the distance to the target all determine whether your ammunition penetrates or ricochets off the target. Smaller caliber ammunition cannot do much against thicker armor. Grazing shots are less visible than hits from a straight angle, and the longer a cartridge is over longer distances, the more destructive it is.
---------------------------------

https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/244450/manuals/Men_of_War-Assault_squad2-manual-VIEW-GER.pdf?t=1619788077

ah... missing the good old manual time :)

a note from the devs could help here :)

As far as i can see when looking through the game files, the armor values are all very in detail and correct. It wouldn't suprise me tbh, if WT was also used as aid, but that's basically using applied real sources anyway.

As for penetration mechanics, KE rounds, such as AP, APCR, etc all behave very similar to what they do in WT. It's pretty realistic. In addition to that, GoH has spalling effects which can make non penetrating hits of high enough energy still do something.

As for explosive rounds, such as HE, the mechanics differ and i'm not entirely sure how it works.

[Herr Flick]

I am horrified by the suggestion that we would use any game as a "reference". We do not do that.
By the way, we do not prioritize manuals and schematics, we prioritize working on release. Maybe we will consider something like armor schematics after release. Stay tuned.

[kensai606]

Originally posted by Herr Flick:

I am horrified by the suggestion that we would use any game as a "reference". We do not do that.
By the way, we do not prioritize manuals and schematics, we prioritize working on release. Maybe we will consider something like armor schematics after release. Stay tuned.

Thanks for responding. I hope you see my question as a demonstration of my keen interest. I don't want everything given to me, just knowing what direction to investigate is enough. Armor based on historical information is just what I'm looking for.

[Alpha]

Originally posted by Herr Flick:

I am horrified by the suggestion that we would use any game as a "reference". We do not do that.
By the way, we do not prioritize manuals and schematics, we prioritize working on release. Maybe we will consider something like armor schematics after release. Stay tuned.

i think cause of WT, WoT and GoH all use historical corret information - there will be a lot of similarity - but no one used the other as reference, they all use the historic data as reference - and this is very cool :)

thx Herr Flick - i would love to see some schematics about units !

[Alpha]

Originally posted by kensai606:

Originally posted by Herr Flick:

I am horrified by the suggestion that we would use any game as a "reference". We do not do that.
By the way, we do not prioritize manuals and schematics, we prioritize working on release. Maybe we will consider something like armor schematics after release. Stay tuned.

Thanks for responding. I hope you see my question as a demonstration of my keen interest. I don't want everything given to me, just knowing what direction to investigate is enough. Armor based on historical information is just what I'm looking for.

if you found something or put something together, let me know :)

just found this on pinterest https://www.pinterest.de/pin/423971752398433837/

[Herr Flick]

Originally posted by kensai606:

Thanks for responding. I hope you see my question as a demonstration of my keen interest. I don't want everything given to me, just knowing what direction to investigate is enough. Armor based on historical information is just what I'm looking for.

You're welcome. And yes, I absolutely see your keen interest, which is great because GoH was developed with players like you in mind. It's just not fair if I suggest we have plans and resources to make schematics, that's what I meant.

[Dr. Acula]

Originally posted by CalvinAz:

Well there's plenty of them on the internet, i mean, the GoH armor and module layout are not made up. Alternatively if you have WT, you can easily use the armor inspector there.

You can on google images search for something like "Tiger 1 interior", usually lotsa scale models pop up with cutaways where you can easily see every component.

Generally speaking (because well, it's handy if you forget the layout for a specific vehicle:

• crew is very much standardized: driver on the left of the hull (or middle if there's no bow MG) and a radio op/ bow mgunner on his right, in the turret left hand side, the gunner with commander at his back (depends again if it's a two or three man turret) with loader on the right (this is opposite if we talk about for instance US vehicles).
  
• For early vehicles: ammo is practically everywhere, but most sure shot will be on the rear bottom left and right of the fighting compartment
  
• For larger vehicles: ammo is usually stored on the wall sides and at the bottom of the fighting compartment or turret basket. Some vehicles (namely German heavy tanks) store ammo in their sponsons (the overhanging part of the hull above the tracks).
  
• Pretty sure you know where the engine is: pretty much always in the back, with exceptions: such as the Ferdinand, having the engine mounted in the front/center.
  
• Tracks... well i hope you can see them
  
• Transmission: the transmission is mounted on the side where the sprocket wheels are mounted: generally on the rear for Soviet vehicles and the front for German vehicles.
  
• turret ring: the turret ring is just the part where the turret and the hull meets: some are more visible than others
  
• gun and breech: the gun is visible so that's no problem, the breech is usually on the inside of the vehicle, it's part of the gun, some vehicles (Soviets ones mainly) have a bulge underneath their gun, that is part of their gun breech.

I think that covers about every component that can be damaged or destroyed.

This is super helpful actually, thank you.