Is BL3 really all that "greedy" and is the franchise really going down hill? (I respectfully disagree and fair warning, this is a LONG discussion)

[ProjectBlitz]

I've noticed that people are a bit heated on this topic. I see a lot of discussions about how BL3 has destroyed the franchise and ruined the series for them and I'm not entirely sure why. I also here how people think this game is being extremely greedy. While I do understand the sentiments especially around season pass 2, but I don't think that things are as bad as it could be and I do honestly believe the monetization is actually significantly better than BL2. Now if you're willing to hold a second and take of your rage hats, give me a second to reason this out. And if you do want to share an opinion, please keep it civilized.

Let's start with the monetization comparison between BL3 and BL2. I see very often claims that BL3 is much more greedy than BL2 and I honestly do believe that's the rose colored nostalgia glasses talking. Lets compare BL2 season pass to BL3 season pass 1. BL2's season pass included the four story DLCs: Captain Scarlet and her pirate's booty, torgue's campaign of carnage, hammerlock's big game hunt, and Tiny Tina's assault on dragon's keep. It also included 11 level increases raising level cap to 61. Yes, that was all that was included in BL2's season pass. Here's the link to the steam page. Notice the score is mostly negative. https://store.steampowered.com/app/218560/Borderlands_2_Season_Pass/
BL2 does not have any bundle packages that includes just the season pass without other major DLCs.

BL3's season pass 1 includes Moxxi's heist of the handsome jackpot, Guns, Love, and tentacles then marriage of wainwright and hammerlock, Bounty of blood, and psycho krieg and the fantastic fustercluck plus the but stallion cosmetic pack. Additionally the super deluxe edition of BL3 is base game plus season pass 1, plus all the preorder cosmetics and stuff. Steam page for the Season pass 1
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1233062/Borderlands_3_Season_Pass/
Steam page for the super deluxe edition
https://store.steampowered.com/sub/427289/

In both cases I don't believe that either game had announced anything beyond season pass 1 at launch. But let's look at the bundles each game has for content beyond their initial season pass. BL2 has the GOTY edition, and BL3 has season pass 2. BL2's GOTY edition includes all the season pass 1 content plus the psycho pack that adds krieg, the mechromancer pack that adds gaige, the creature slaughter dome which is an preorder arena, the collector's edition pack which is a cosmetic pack. But that still doesn't include all content for the BL2 (I actually bought this version of the game when I first got BL2 and was pissed to learn I was still missing DLCs) What wasn't included was the five head hunter DLCs, the raid on digistruct peak DLC which increased level cap to 72 plus added 8 OP levels (BL2 equivalent of mayhem) as well as a new map raid and new loot and a new rarity, and about 30 cosmetic packs that you COULD NOT get as a part of any edition/pass of BL2. That's right 30 cosmetics that were 100% sold separately. The only way to get any of these cosmetics included in a bundle was to buy the handsome collection which included everything from BL2 and everything from the presequel, and this actually meant everything this time. Only problem was that according to the steam page "Includes all available downloadable content for Borderlands 2 and Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel as of December 31st, 2017." So that means 2 things, the handsome collection DIDN'T include all that until end of 2017 or it didn't release on steam until the end of 2017. In which case the only way to the complete BL2 package was a bundle 5 years after the game released. here's the handsome collection store page:
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/8133/Borderlands_The_Handsome_Collection/

BL3 has Season pass 2 which I agree is much weaker than season pass 1. But the content in season pass 2 is beyond a shadow of a double more than all the head hunter packs which didn't even include any new mechanics or weapons. The designer's cut added arms race and new skill trees which I find to be comparable to how BL2's upgrade pack added digi peak and OP levels. Both adds new weapons. Director's cut adds a small story mission, some new loot both from the new maps in the small story mission and to arm's race plus it adds a raid boss, and vault cards which are new loot in a different format. Again not as great as season pass 1 but still more content than the later half of BL2's dlcs. Heck if you only looked at BL2 DLC's and don't include the BL2 season pass and the head hunter packs all you really have to work with are the two character packs and digi peak which imo are comparable in terms of content and quality to the director and designer's cut. And in both cases fall sort of their game's respective story DLCs.

So is season pass 2 really making BL3 more of a cash grab than BL2? I don't think so. BL2 literally has 30 cosmetics that they were selling at like 2 or 3 bucks a piece at one point with literally no way to get them other than buying separately until years later when the handsome collection came out. While all cosmetic packs for BL3 are sold separately, they are also included at no additional charge if you buy the ultimate edition which includes season pass 1 and 2. If you only the super deluxe edition, you will not get season pass 2 or the multiverse disciples cosmetic pack, but you will get every other pack the game has released. Also forgot that no level increases were sold separately so if you play with a friend and don't have the all the DLCs they won't be 22 levels higher than you in the endgame.

In closing,
BL3 may not have the most bang for your buck but it honestly is a much lesser cash grab than some of the monetization that happened in BL2. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's criticism of BL3 but please, when you beat on BL3, don't claim to be a fan of BL2 especially when it was clearly much more greedy with a lot more cash grab packs that you literally couldn't get even if you owned the highest edition of the game, at least not until five years after the game's release. Like I bought BL2 base game, then the GOTY edition to get what I thought was everything only to realize I still had to buy the upgrade pack 2 for digi peak, OP levels, and level cap plus all the head hunter packs. Also commander lilith's DLC released years later and that was free to owners of the game initially, but it has to be bought separately NOW and isn't included anywhere, even in the handsome collection. So yes, absolutely bash BL3's garbage writing, it's terrible treatment of old characters, and anything else you want but if you do complain about greed then you need to equally be as hard on BL2 if not more. IMO BL3 is the step away from greed that I wanted to see from gear box. They avoided micro transactions such as skin packs etc that can only be purchased 100% separate from everything else. They avoided charging for in game loot boxes. They avoided charging for individual timed battle passes every few "seasons" when every other looter on the market is doing just that. My hope is that they even further clean up the monetization in future games because I honestly do believe that BL3 has been the most fun Borderlands game at least in gameplay, and that it has been the most balanced and variety filled borderlands game to date. And I think the gameplay in 3 is super tight and very snappy given the clunky look and design of everything. Like I expected the game to shoot and play better than BL2 in terms of gun responsiveness, but not up to modern standards and I was hella suprised to find the game felt closer to destiny's mechanics and over all exceeded the modern standard in a lot of cases.

[Bankai9212]

Here’s the thing the head hunter packs aren’t needed to farm legendaries, the content in season pass 2 is. All head hunters gave players is another way to farm something with the latest hot fixes has relegated all farming to one boss and that’s it. Also charging a raid boss(something bl2 had a launch) and a quick mission lasting less than an hour isn’t a rip off I don’t know what is. The first part of sp2 gets a slight pass for skills that’s it.

[ProjectBlitz]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Here’s the thing the head hunter packs aren’t needed to farm legendaries, the content in season pass 2 is. All head hunters gave players is another way to farm something with the latest hot fixes has relegated all farming to one boss and that’s it. Also charging a raid boss(something bl2 had a launch) and a quick mission lasting less than an hour isn’t a rip off I don’t know what is. The first part of sp2 gets a slight pass for skills that’s it.

That's my point though, the head hunter packs didn't add anything at all, they didn't even add new loot, they were one map with one boss fight yet the were being sold as content. Content to me in a looter shooter means content in the form of new loot. Would you not agree that new loot in a looter shooter counts as content, probably the most important content? In any case BL2 did not lack alternative farming methods and I believe that was just BS they told people to get them to buy things that didn't add anything to the experience.

In my OP I compare the designer's cut to the level pack 2 for BL2. Both gave you a new area with new mechanics, both weren't really loved initially. Both added new loot. And I absolutely agree that the director's cut isn't very good in comparison to everything else released for BL3, but the new loot they added through it I quite enjoy. The vault cards are pretty nice in my opinion. The new smaller maps added with ava's mini questline in the directors cut are about the same size as a head hunter map and they have about one mini boss each that drops new directors cut exclusive loot in addition to adding more loot to arm's race. Also the first level cap increase in BL2 you couldn't buy anywhere except as a part of the season pass, GOTY edition, or handsome collection. Forcing you to buy a whole edition for a level cap increase, pretty cash grab to me. BL2 also had cosmetic packs that weren't included anywhere except for the handsome collection 5 years after release. Cosmetics that you could only be obtained via real money and weren't included anywhere else no mater the edition of the game you bought? Seems pretty cash grab to me.

Again it is fair, absolutely justified even, to dislike the season pass 2, but then you really need to take of the rose colored glasses and realize how much more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up BL2 was and that BL3 is legitimately a step towards a less ♥♥♥♥♥♥ monetization scheme. I have no problems with people roasting BL3 for being greedy. My problem is that they do that, then go "look at how great BL2 was, just do that!" When hell no, that was even worse.

[Bankai9212]

That’s what makes in optional though, gearbox even stated as much. If people want more enemies to kill with a different means of getting gear they can. Compared to a game mode removing the point of a character build so once you get what you need it’s a paperweight. A raid boss that should have been there from day one and a 1 hour long mission. I get adding more gear if that’s the case why note make more of season one. This content barely adds any new enemies and uses existing assets. Heck even if you don’t sp2 you’ll get mods for skill tree you won’t have. I won’t say BL2 wasn’t extreme but they felt optional compared to sp2.

[JackBurton]

BL2 was original cash grab of series, but godspeed telling that to it's loyal-til-death sheep.
It cost more to buy all content in BL2 (HHs, DLCs, VHs, cosmetics) than BL3's Ultimate Edn.

[Mami The Beer Baron]

Originally posted by ProjectBlitz:

I've noticed that people are a bit heated on this topic. I see a lot of discussions about how BL3 has destroyed the franchise and ruined the series for them and I'm not entirely sure why. I also here how people think this game is being extremely greedy. While I do understand the sentiments especially around season pass 2, but I don't think that things are as bad as it could be and I do honestly believe the monetization is actually significantly better than BL2. Now if you're willing to hold a second and take of your rage hats, give me a second to reason this out. And if you do want to share an opinion, please keep it civilized.

Let's start with the monetization comparison between BL3 and BL2. I see very often claims that BL3 is much more greedy than BL2 and I honestly do believe that's the rose colored nostalgia glasses talking. Lets compare BL2 season pass to BL3 season pass 1. BL2's season pass included the four story DLCs: Captain Scarlet and her pirate's booty, torgue's campaign of carnage, hammerlock's big game hunt, and Tiny Tina's assault on dragon's keep. It also included 11 level increases raising level cap to 61. Yes, that was all that was included in BL2's season pass. Here's the link to the steam page. Notice the score is mostly negative. https://store.steampowered.com/app/218560/Borderlands_2_Season_Pass/
BL2 does not have any bundle packages that includes just the season pass without other major DLCs.

BL3's season pass 1 includes Moxxi's heist of the handsome jackpot, Guns, Love, and tentacles then marriage of wainwright and hammerlock, Bounty of blood, and psycho krieg and the fantastic fustercluck plus the but stallion cosmetic pack. Additionally the super deluxe edition of BL3 is base game plus season pass 1, plus all the preorder cosmetics and stuff. Steam page for the Season pass 1
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1233062/Borderlands_3_Season_Pass/
Steam page for the super deluxe edition
https://store.steampowered.com/sub/427289/

In both cases I don't believe that either game had announced anything beyond season pass 1 at launch. But let's look at the bundles each game has for content beyond their initial season pass. BL2 has the GOTY edition, and BL3 has season pass 2. BL2's GOTY edition includes all the season pass 1 content plus the psycho pack that adds krieg, the mechromancer pack that adds gaige, the creature slaughter dome which is an preorder arena, the collector's edition pack which is a cosmetic pack. But that still doesn't include all content for the BL2 (I actually bought this version of the game when I first got BL2 and was pissed to learn I was still missing DLCs) What wasn't included was the five head hunter DLCs, the raid on digistruct peak DLC which increased level cap to 72 plus added 8 OP levels (BL2 equivalent of mayhem) as well as a new map raid and new loot and a new rarity, and about 30 cosmetic packs that you COULD NOT get as a part of any edition/pass of BL2. That's right 30 cosmetics that were 100% sold separately. The only way to get any of these cosmetics included in a bundle was to buy the handsome collection which included everything from BL2 and everything from the presequel, and this actually meant everything this time. Only problem was that according to the steam page "Includes all available downloadable content for Borderlands 2 and Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel as of December 31st, 2017." So that means 2 things, the handsome collection DIDN'T include all that until end of 2017 or it didn't release on steam until the end of 2017. In which case the only way to the complete BL2 package was a bundle 5 years after the game released. here's the handsome collection store page:
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/8133/Borderlands_The_Handsome_Collection/

BL3 has Season pass 2 which I agree is much weaker than season pass 1. But the content in season pass 2 is beyond a shadow of a double more than all the head hunter packs which didn't even include any new mechanics or weapons. The designer's cut added arms race and new skill trees which I find to be comparable to how BL2's upgrade pack added digi peak and OP levels. Both adds new weapons. Director's cut adds a small story mission, some new loot both from the new maps in the small story mission and to arm's race plus it adds a raid boss, and vault cards which are new loot in a different format. Again not as great as season pass 1 but still more content than the later half of BL2's dlcs. Heck if you only looked at BL2 DLC's and don't include the BL2 season pass and the head hunter packs all you really have to work with are the two character packs and digi peak which imo are comparable in terms of content and quality to the director and designer's cut. And in both cases fall sort of their game's respective story DLCs.

So is season pass 2 really making BL3 more of a cash grab than BL2? I don't think so. BL2 literally has 30 cosmetics that they were selling at like 2 or 3 bucks a piece at one point with literally no way to get them other than buying separately until years later when the handsome collection came out. While all cosmetic packs for BL3 are sold separately, they are also included at no additional charge if you buy the ultimate edition which includes season pass 1 and 2. If you only the super deluxe edition, you will not get season pass 2 or the multiverse disciples cosmetic pack, but you will get every other pack the game has released. Also forgot that no level increases were sold separately so if you play with a friend and don't have the all the DLCs they won't be 22 levels higher than you in the endgame.

In closing,
BL3 may not have the most bang for your buck but it honestly is a much lesser cash grab than some of the monetization that happened in BL2. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's criticism of BL3 but please, when you beat on BL3, don't claim to be a fan of BL2 especially when it was clearly much more greedy with a lot more cash grab packs that you literally couldn't get even if you owned the highest edition of the game, at least not until five years after the game's release. Like I bought BL2 base game, then the GOTY edition to get what I thought was everything only to realize I still had to buy the upgrade pack 2 for digi peak, OP levels, and level cap plus all the head hunter packs. Also commander lilith's DLC released years later and that was free to owners of the game initially, but it has to be bought separately NOW and isn't included anywhere, even in the handsome collection. So yes, absolutely bash BL3's garbage writing, it's terrible treatment of old characters, and anything else you want but if you do complain about greed then you need to equally be as hard on BL2 if not more. IMO BL3 is the step away from greed that I wanted to see from gear box. They avoided micro transactions such as skin packs etc that can only be purchased 100% separate from everything else. They avoided charging for in game loot boxes. They avoided charging for individual timed battle passes every few "seasons" when every other looter on the market is doing just that. My hope is that they even further clean up the monetization in future games because I honestly do believe that BL3 has been the most fun Borderlands game at least in gameplay, and that it has been the most balanced and variety filled borderlands game to date. And I think the gameplay in 3 is super tight and very snappy given the clunky look and design of everything. Like I expected the game to shoot and play better than BL2 in terms of gun responsiveness, but not up to modern standards and I was hella suprised to find the game felt closer to destiny's mechanics and over all exceeded the modern standard in a lot of cases.

did you forget the handsome collection or something?

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by JackBurton:

BL2 was original cash grab of series, but godspeed telling that to it's loyal-til-death sheep.
It cost more to buy all content in BL2 (HHs, DLCs, VHs, cosmetics) than BL3's Ultimate Edn.

Ah mr. Jack I hate anything bl2 burton.

[Mami The Beer Baron]

Originally posted by JackBurton:

BL2 was original cash grab of series, but godspeed telling that to it's loyal-til-death sheep.
It cost more to buy all content in BL2 (HHs, DLCs, VHs, cosmetics) than BL3's Ultimate Edn.

bro, just get the handsome collection lol, its a hell of a lot cheaper than the BASEGAME OF BL3

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Stu Pickles, Master Footster:

Originally posted by ProjectBlitz:

I've noticed that people are a bit heated on this topic. I see a lot of discussions about how BL3 has destroyed the franchise and ruined the series for them and I'm not entirely sure why. I also here how people think this game is being extremely greedy. While I do understand the sentiments especially around season pass 2, but I don't think that things are as bad as it could be and I do honestly believe the monetization is actually significantly better than BL2. Now if you're willing to hold a second and take of your rage hats, give me a second to reason this out. And if you do want to share an opinion, please keep it civilized.

Let's start with the monetization comparison between BL3 and BL2. I see very often claims that BL3 is much more greedy than BL2 and I honestly do believe that's the rose colored nostalgia glasses talking. Lets compare BL2 season pass to BL3 season pass 1. BL2's season pass included the four story DLCs: Captain Scarlet and her pirate's booty, torgue's campaign of carnage, hammerlock's big game hunt, and Tiny Tina's assault on dragon's keep. It also included 11 level increases raising level cap to 61. Yes, that was all that was included in BL2's season pass. Here's the link to the steam page. Notice the score is mostly negative. https://store.steampowered.com/app/218560/Borderlands_2_Season_Pass/
BL2 does not have any bundle packages that includes just the season pass without other major DLCs.

BL3's season pass 1 includes Moxxi's heist of the handsome jackpot, Guns, Love, and tentacles then marriage of wainwright and hammerlock, Bounty of blood, and psycho krieg and the fantastic fustercluck plus the but stallion cosmetic pack. Additionally the super deluxe edition of BL3 is base game plus season pass 1, plus all the preorder cosmetics and stuff. Steam page for the Season pass 1
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1233062/Borderlands_3_Season_Pass/
Steam page for the super deluxe edition
https://store.steampowered.com/sub/427289/

In both cases I don't believe that either game had announced anything beyond season pass 1 at launch. But let's look at the bundles each game has for content beyond their initial season pass. BL2 has the GOTY edition, and BL3 has season pass 2. BL2's GOTY edition includes all the season pass 1 content plus the psycho pack that adds krieg, the mechromancer pack that adds gaige, the creature slaughter dome which is an preorder arena, the collector's edition pack which is a cosmetic pack. But that still doesn't include all content for the BL2 (I actually bought this version of the game when I first got BL2 and was pissed to learn I was still missing DLCs) What wasn't included was the five head hunter DLCs, the raid on digistruct peak DLC which increased level cap to 72 plus added 8 OP levels (BL2 equivalent of mayhem) as well as a new map raid and new loot and a new rarity, and about 30 cosmetic packs that you COULD NOT get as a part of any edition/pass of BL2. That's right 30 cosmetics that were 100% sold separately. The only way to get any of these cosmetics included in a bundle was to buy the handsome collection which included everything from BL2 and everything from the presequel, and this actually meant everything this time. Only problem was that according to the steam page "Includes all available downloadable content for Borderlands 2 and Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel as of December 31st, 2017." So that means 2 things, the handsome collection DIDN'T include all that until end of 2017 or it didn't release on steam until the end of 2017. In which case the only way to the complete BL2 package was a bundle 5 years after the game released. here's the handsome collection store page:
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/8133/Borderlands_The_Handsome_Collection/

BL3 has Season pass 2 which I agree is much weaker than season pass 1. But the content in season pass 2 is beyond a shadow of a double more than all the head hunter packs which didn't even include any new mechanics or weapons. The designer's cut added arms race and new skill trees which I find to be comparable to how BL2's upgrade pack added digi peak and OP levels. Both adds new weapons. Director's cut adds a small story mission, some new loot both from the new maps in the small story mission and to arm's race plus it adds a raid boss, and vault cards which are new loot in a different format. Again not as great as season pass 1 but still more content than the later half of BL2's dlcs. Heck if you only looked at BL2 DLC's and don't include the BL2 season pass and the head hunter packs all you really have to work with are the two character packs and digi peak which imo are comparable in terms of content and quality to the director and designer's cut. And in both cases fall sort of their game's respective story DLCs.

So is season pass 2 really making BL3 more of a cash grab than BL2? I don't think so. BL2 literally has 30 cosmetics that they were selling at like 2 or 3 bucks a piece at one point with literally no way to get them other than buying separately until years later when the handsome collection came out. While all cosmetic packs for BL3 are sold separately, they are also included at no additional charge if you buy the ultimate edition which includes season pass 1 and 2. If you only the super deluxe edition, you will not get season pass 2 or the multiverse disciples cosmetic pack, but you will get every other pack the game has released. Also forgot that no level increases were sold separately so if you play with a friend and don't have the all the DLCs they won't be 22 levels higher than you in the endgame.

In closing,
BL3 may not have the most bang for your buck but it honestly is a much lesser cash grab than some of the monetization that happened in BL2. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's criticism of BL3 but please, when you beat on BL3, don't claim to be a fan of BL2 especially when it was clearly much more greedy with a lot more cash grab packs that you literally couldn't get even if you owned the highest edition of the game, at least not until five years after the game's release. Like I bought BL2 base game, then the GOTY edition to get what I thought was everything only to realize I still had to buy the upgrade pack 2 for digi peak, OP levels, and level cap plus all the head hunter packs. Also commander lilith's DLC released years later and that was free to owners of the game initially, but it has to be bought separately NOW and isn't included anywhere, even in the handsome collection. So yes, absolutely bash BL3's garbage writing, it's terrible treatment of old characters, and anything else you want but if you do complain about greed then you need to equally be as hard on BL2 if not more. IMO BL3 is the step away from greed that I wanted to see from gear box. They avoided micro transactions such as skin packs etc that can only be purchased 100% separate from everything else. They avoided charging for in game loot boxes. They avoided charging for individual timed battle passes every few "seasons" when every other looter on the market is doing just that. My hope is that they even further clean up the monetization in future games because I honestly do believe that BL3 has been the most fun Borderlands game at least in gameplay, and that it has been the most balanced and variety filled borderlands game to date. And I think the gameplay in 3 is super tight and very snappy given the clunky look and design of everything. Like I expected the game to shoot and play better than BL2 in terms of gun responsiveness, but not up to modern standards and I was hella suprised to find the game felt closer to destiny's mechanics and over all exceeded the modern standard in a lot of cases.

did you forget the handsome collection or something?

I think he was referring to more at release. Bl2 had a lot of cosmetics etc, but unlike the stuff from SP2 none of that is needed. Heck they even gave commander Lilith dlc for free for a time.

[Mami The Beer Baron]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Originally posted by Stu Pickles, Master Footster:

did you forget the handsome collection or something?

I think he was referring to more at release. Bl2 had a lot of cosmetics etc, but unlike the stuff from SP2 none of that is needed. Heck they even gave commander Lilith dlc for free for a time.

understandable
most of the stuff from SP2 could have just been added to basegame but we're dealing with randy pitchford here, he wants all the money afterall

[ProjectBlitz]

Originally posted by Stu Pickles, Master Footster:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

I think he was referring to more at release. Bl2 had a lot of cosmetics etc, but unlike the stuff from SP2 none of that is needed. Heck they even gave commander Lilith dlc for free for a time.

understandable
most of the stuff from SP2 could have just been added to basegame but we're dealing with randy pitchford here, he wants all the money afterall

I did not forget the handsome collection. In fact in the OP that you quoted me on mentions the handsome collection multiple times. I even mention specifically that BL2 sold over 30 cosmetic packs that you couldn't get as a part of any bundle, not the season pass, not the GOTY edition except for the handsome collection. The problem was, and I even included a link to the handsome collection where there is a sentence in the description of the handsome collection that states "Includes all available downloadable content for Borderlands 2 and Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel as of December 31st, 2017." Basically the handsome edition said that it was including all stuff for BL2 and the presequel on the very last day of 2017. Meaning two things, not everything from BL2 and the presequel was included before Dec. 31st of 2017, OR the handsome edition didn't release until December 31st, 2017. In either case you there was no way to get the 30 cosmetic packs, upgrade pack 2, and the head hunter packs except buying all of them individually for 4 to 5 years before the handsome collection included them, and that's even if you owned the highest edition at the time. Remember BL2 came out in 2012.

Then I went on to say that in BL3, if you bought the super deluxe edition you would get all cosmetics except the Multiverse Disciples cosmetics which you would be able to instantly get if you picked up season pass 2 separately. Or you could buy the ultimate edition and get both season passes and all cosmetics ever released. If you bought the base game and then season pass 1 and 2 separately you'd only be missing the deluxe pack which could be bought separate. In BL2 you had to buy all this ♥♥♥♥ separate even when you owned the highest edition, none of it was included. At least with 3 there are editions and passes that will get you all content released without having buy all the passes, then buy all the cosmetics separate.

For example when I got into BL2, I bought the base game. Then I picked up GOTY edition a year later which was the highest edition available (and still is unless you count the handsome collection) and it included the season pass and the two character packs. Now that was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cash grab because the two character packs were the only things in the GOTY edition that wasn't already in the season pass. So after buying GOTY edition I had to buy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ upgrade pack 2 aka the digistruct peak pack. After that I was still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ missing the five head hunter packs and all the cosmetics. I eventually bought the handsome collection on sale because I wanted to at least try the presequel. And that's how I got the rest of the content for BL2 YEARS later.

But saying BL2 isn't a cash grab because the handsome collection exists is like waiting for 3 more years for a "Calypso Collection" or some ♥♥♥♥ and saying BL3 isn't a cash grab because you can buy BL3, BL2, and TPS and all there DLCs as a part of the "Calypso Collection." You know what I mean?

[Mami The Beer Baron]

Originally posted by ProjectBlitz:

Originally posted by Stu Pickles, Master Footster:

understandable
most of the stuff from SP2 could have just been added to basegame but we're dealing with randy pitchford here, he wants all the money afterall

I did not forget the handsome collection. In fact in the OP that you quoted me on mentions the handsome collection multiple times. I even mention specifically that BL2 sold over 30 cosmetic packs that you couldn't get as a part of any bundle, not the season pass, not the GOTY edition except for the handsome collection. The problem was, and I even included a link to the handsome collection where there is a sentence in the description of the handsome collection that states "Includes all available downloadable content for Borderlands 2 and Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel as of December 31st, 2017." Basically the handsome edition said that it was including all stuff for BL2 and the presequel on the very last day of 2017. Meaning two things, not everything from BL2 and the presequel was included before Dec. 31st of 2017, OR the handsome edition didn't release until December 31st, 2017. In either case you there was no way to get the 30 cosmetic packs, upgrade pack 2, and the head hunter packs except buying all of them individually for 4 to 5 years before the handsome collection included them, and that's even if you owned the highest edition at the time. Remember BL2 came out in 2012.

Then I went on to say that in BL3, if you bought the super deluxe edition you would get all cosmetics except the Multiverse Disciples cosmetics which you would be able to instantly get if you picked up season pass 2 separately. Or you could buy the ultimate edition and get both season passes and all cosmetics ever released. If you bought the base game and then season pass 1 and 2 separately you'd only be missing the deluxe pack which could be bought separate. In BL2 you had to buy all this ♥♥♥♥ separate even when you owned the highest edition, none of it was included. At least with 3 there are editions and passes that will get you all content released without having buy all the passes, then buy all the cosmetics separate.

For example when I got into BL2, I bought the base game. Then I picked up GOTY edition a year later which was the highest edition available (and still is unless you count the handsome collection) and it included the season pass and the two character packs. Now that was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cash grab because the two character packs were the only things in the GOTY edition that wasn't already in the season pass. So after buying GOTY edition I had to buy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ upgrade pack 2 aka the digistruct peak pack. After that I was still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ missing the five head hunter packs and all the cosmetics. I eventually bought the handsome collection on sale because I wanted to at least try the presequel. And that's how I got the rest of the content for BL2 YEARS later.

But saying BL2 isn't a cash grab because the handsome collection exists is like waiting for 3 more years for a "Calypso Collection" or some ♥♥♥♥ and saying BL3 isn't a cash grab because you can buy BL3, BL2, and TPS and all there DLCs as a part of the "Calypso Collection." You know what I mean?

its in terms of value for what you get, knowing gearbox that whole "calypso collection" would be atleast $100, if not much more.
you also seem to be really peeved just because i mentioned it since its at this point the most bang for your buck due to price/content ratio, CP77 was in the same point being $80+ bucks for a game that was basically a glorified tech demo at launch

[Dark Ghost]

Borderlands 2 had a lot of cash grab stuff too, but almost all of them were optional. Maybe the Head Hunter dlc didn´t give us new weapons or alts mode, but they were funny at hell. You don´t lost anything if you pass this dlc.
On B3, if you don´t get the second season pass, you can´t use the new trees, you lost the option of farming the new legendaries and other stuff. Borderlands 3 is the first one of the series that i didn´t bother on start a new game with another character, i would love a new dlc hunter instead of new trees. At the end of the day, it´s your choice if you decide to keep playing B3 or move away.

[SoundCollapse]

Originally posted by ProjectBlitz:

Meaning two things, not everything from BL2 and the presequel was included before Dec. 31st of 2017, OR the handsome edition didn't release until December 31st, 2017. In either case you there was no way to get the 30 cosmetic packs, upgrade pack 2, and the head hunter packs except buying all of them individually for 4 to 5 years before the handsome collection included them, and that's even if you owned the highest edition at the time. Remember BL2 came out in 2012.

I think the specific date was there to allow for future DLC (they had probably begun at least conceptualizing the Lilith DLC by then)
not sure why Steam never got an equivalent, but in 2015 they released the Borderlands Triple Pack for 360/ps3 which included all those cosmetics
and using the 2012 release date for the base game & saying it took too long for a collected version to come out is a bit unfair when the final headhunter pack came out in April 2014

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Dark Ghost:

Borderlands 2 had a lot of cash grab stuff too, but almost all of them were optional. Maybe the Head Hunter dlc didn´t give us new weapons or alts mode, but they were funny at hell. You don´t lost anything if you pass this dlc.
On B3, if you don´t get the second season pass, you can´t use the new trees, you lost the option of farming the new legendaries and other stuff. Borderlands 3 is the first one of the series that i didn´t bother on start a new game with another character, i would love a new dlc hunter instead of new trees. At the end of the day, it´s your choice if you decide to keep playing B3 or move away.

Seems to be the thing op is ignoring, all of it is optional nothing in sp2 isn’t and the stuff added isn’t worth the cost. Heck Kreig the second vault hunter was 10 bucks with a whole class while 15 gets you an extra skill tree for characters people have already maxed, and a worthless game mode.

[senitewolf]

"Hey, because five years after release they made a somewhat cheap collector's edition for the 50 extras you could buy for BL2 and there isn't one a year after BL3 came out for the 20 add-ons for BL3 it means BL3 is a cash grab and B2 wasn't, hurr-durr"
Flawless logic.