The problem with charging money for a 4th skill tree..

[Risotto]

Is that now you are forced to use that skill tree above the others. Otherwise you have just wasted your money.

Honestly, extra skill tree should have been a free thing. If they want to make money, just make new characters and charge money for that. Hell, just bring back old playable characters with updated skill trees.

This company has a serious problem with shooting themselves in the foot all the time.

[JackBurton]

I'd rather have new trees. BL3's VHs are derivative, bringing back old ones would be pointless.
Gunzerker & Lawbringer have been done; Nisha dead. Maya & Lilith dead. Zane is new cryo specialist, Aurelia dead. No need for Axton, we already have 2 turrets: Auto Bear and Clone. No need for another brawler nor sniper. Gaige is a wedding planner; Athena off with Janey.
That leaves Fiona and Sasha. I'd buy either/both - and the new trees, plus a Grinder.

[Risotto]

Originally posted by JackBurton:

I'd rather have new trees. BL3's VHs are derivative, bringing back old ones would be pointless.
Gunzerker & Lawbringer have been done; Nisha dead. Maya & Lilith dead. Zane is new cryo specialist, Aurelia dead. No need for Axton, we already have 2 turrets: Auto Bear and Clone. No need for another brawler nor sniper. Gaige is a wedding planner; Athena off with Janey.
That leaves Fiona and Sasha. I'd buy either/both - and the new trees.

I like 4th skills trees, don't get me wrong.

but charging money for them is a terrible idea.

[JackBurton]

It seems most fans must've been late to the party and purchased Jack Bundle for $10 or w/e. They're spoiled. BL2 was shamelessly monetized by 2K & GBX: a SP, 2 VHs, 5 Headhunter pks, 30 cosmetics, and more... $150-ish, if purchased separately.

No one is forcing you to buy now, just wait for BL3's all-inclusive package in ~2022.

[Risotto]

Originally posted by JackBurton:

It seems most fans must've been late to the party and purchased Jack Bundle for $10 or w/e. They're spoiled. BL2 was shamelessly monetized by 2K & GBX: a SP, 2 VHs, 5 Headhunter pks, 30 cosmetics, and more... $150-ish, if purchased separately.

No one is forcing you to buy now, just wait for BL3's all-inclusive package in ~2022.

Read my intial post. I dont have a problem with spending money.

The problem is, if you buy this then you are forced to ignore the other skill trees, because then you have just wasted your money, if you don't use it.

The 4th skill tree should have been free, and we should have got something else for paid content.

[xXSetsu]

Nothing will ever come close to the charme of BL2 Tiny Tina DLC <.<

I don't know why GBX is against new Vault Hunters even though 75% of the DLC's released in BL3 feature Vault Hunters, that have been added later on, in a major role.

Can't tell if DLC3 has an added VH too though.

[Zylon]

Originally posted by xXSetsu:

Nothing will ever come close to the charme of BL2 Tiny Tina DLC <.<

I don't know why GBX is against new Vault Hunters even though 75% of the DLC's released in BL3 feature Vault Hunters, that have been added later on, in a major role.

Can't tell if DLC3 has an added VH too though.

You should see it from the positive side.

If they do not release new vault hunters, then we do not have to force them
to go to the awful story either. It is the humane thing to do.. they never have to encounter ava.

think about it.

[Djinn Tonic]

Well, if you're afraid you'll be forced to use the skill tree...don't buy the DLC? I hate that argument of "don't like it, don't buy it" because it's dismissive, but I honestly don't understand the issue you're having with this situation.

[Zylon]

There should not be any have and have nots in a game where we play together.
DLC content areas we can not access fine...

Legendary weapons we have no access to in said DLC concent areas are upsetting the balance between players, when they do encounter each other outside those specific DLC regions.

The same with the payed lvl cap increases in BL2.
For now it seems BL3 does not want to put level cap increases behind a paywall.

So they schemed and found a different way.. a 4rth skilltree to be put behind a paywall.
This is fine if people play solo, but in any game where people play together this again
pushes the have nots further away from the have players.

What alreaddy happened due to the legendary weapons in DLC content and now
with the payed 4rth skill tree is that power creep sets in.

A way to introduce planned obsolescence for everyone that plays with others that are
more powerful. You will notice they are stronger,, you start to feel inferior.

Or are you telling me none of you ever competed in coop games no matter how small the stakes?
Or will you tell me with a straight face that it wont matter if someone else is stronger due to
getting power through spending?

Wait.. we all bought the same game right? That is not right...
These are P2W mechanics.

[Sekzon]

i don't think it is p2w. speaking of me playing fl4k the new skill tree is useless. maybe some buffs but i doubt it since its about pet which no one uses anyway and you can already one shot anything on m10 anyway.

i can see a point with the dlc weapons - but there are enough "vanilla" weapons that are equally strong i believe. my main weapon is hellwalker for example.

but even if there are p2w mechanics.. why care? someone you play with has a better gun.. it's not like you would really see a difference. just more flashy balls and explosions.

[Zylon]

Originally posted by Sekzon:

i don't think it is p2w. speaking of me playing fl4k the new skill tree is useless. maybe some buffs but i doubt it since its about pet which no one uses anyway and you can already one shot anything on m10 anyway.

i can see a point with the dlc weapons - but there are enough "vanilla" weapons that are equally strong i believe. my main weapon is hellwalker for example.

but even if there are p2w mechanics.. why care? someone you play with has a better gun.. it's not like you would really see a difference. just more flashy balls and explosions.

You do not get it. or you pretend to not get it.

More accurate gun? player A does not have the 4rth skill tree or DLC legendary weapon that can offer such accuracy. and misses an enemy far away..
Player B does have 1 or both advantages over player A.. Player B hit its target and the enemy dies.

Player A is annoyed and feels useless., Player B feels good and does it again.. and again.

Now you can make the same point for all other charactaristics of weapons and skills
that result in power creep.

It is deliberate psychological warfare in the hope to push the non extra paying customer into the store to buy more.

How to solve this besides not offering extra powercreep for sale?
How about they do not match players that do not own the same DLC together?

That way there is no powercreep and everyone can have a fun time without creating
have and have nots in a coop competitive game.

Competitive? wait did you already forgot about the enemy in the back I talked about in the begin of my reply? There is competition on who can take out what enemy first.

[Numzy]

I need some crackers to go with all this whining

[carnie2]

Being offered the opportunity to buy a 4th skill tree, is good for all of us. Use it if you want...

If you prefer Borderlands 2, go play that... what are you even doing here then ?

[marcel]

You do realise they are running business and not some fan project.

I don't see DLC as pay to win as long as the DLC weapons are in balance with what is available in main game.

Same reasoning applies to the DLC skill trees, if they are balanced they just add another dimension to the way the game is played which is exactly the point of DLC.

Pay to win would be if the new skill trees were completely over powered, and even then BL3 is essentially a co-op game so the whole pay to win thing is mute,because the game is not designed around anyone player actually winning by killing another player. Yes, there is a duel mode but I have not seen a single duel outside of people trying to unlock a trophy.

As it stands playing with randoms is already an issue, like in most games people just hack game files the DLC is the least of concern.

Which is the main reason I never ever play with randoms.

[Agarillobob]

Originally posted by marcel:

You do realise they are running business and not some fan project.

I don't see DLC as pay to win as long as the DLC weapons are in balance with what is available in main game.

Same reasoning applies to the DLC skill trees, if they are balanced they just add another dimension to the way the game is played which is exactly the point of DLC.

Pay to win would be if the new skill trees were completely over powered, and even then BL3 is essentially a co-op game so the whole pay to win thing is mute,because the game is not designed around anyone player actually winning by killing another player. Yes, there is a duel mode but I have not seen a single duel outside of people trying to unlock a trophy.

As it stands playing with randoms is already an issue, like in most games people just hack game files the DLC is the least of concern.

Which is the main reason I never ever play with randoms.

imagine there even being a Pay to Win in a PvE game LuL

[Dyex]

Hey, were getting Mayhem 11 for free and a DLC is just pay for fun.
It's not like a 4th bonus tree was required.

No differnt then DLC Vault Hunters, 4th skill tree is something you might not even use or be intrested in.
It's the devolpers taking a bit of a chance it will sell.