New DLC Vault Hunter, when ?

[LARA CROFT]

[Junipercat]

They said at the start that they intended NOT to have DLC Vault Hunters. They wanted to focus on the defaults ones. So you deal with what you've got.

[Kobeth]

It's extremely unlikely that we are going to get a new DLC on this game, let alone new vault hunters DLC. The 4 vault hunters that we have are already pretty interesting in my opinion, with a lot of depth to them. So even though I wouldn't say no to maybe one new vault hunter, I'm not sure what it would truely bring to the game. I would rather have more takedowns and more endgame content overall.

[vee-kay]

The vault hunters in Borderlands series have always been of these 4 archetypes: siren/spellcaster, berserker/brawler, medic/soldier, hunter/sniper. Or variations thereof.

BL1: Lilith, Brick, Roland, Mordecai.
BL2: Maya, Salvador, Axton, Zer0. BL2 has 2 additional DLC classes: Gaige (mechromancer - soldier with a robot instead of turret), Kreig (psycho - basically a berserker/brawler).
TPS: Athena, Wilhelm, Claptrap, Nisha. 2 additional DLC classes: Jack (doppelganger) and Aurelia (hunter/sniper).
BL3: Amara, FL4K, Moze, Zane.
TTW: Spellshot, Brr-Zerker, Graveborn, Stabbomancer, SporeWarden, Clawbringer. Post-release class added: Blightcaller. TTW uniquely allowed the player to use 2 classes simultaneously, so there are actually exciting combos of skills and guns/equipment to be tried out.

The games are all complete, the devs are working on BL4, so there are unlikely to be any new DLCs or vault characters (classes) added to these finished games.

[Uzkniso o.o]

It's unlikely that this title will get any new updates/dlcs.

[выключи его наху]

GB decided to not add new VHs into the game, but instead gave old ones new skilltrees, so i think we kinda okay with that

[vee-kay]

Originally posted by ATLAS:

Originally posted by vee-kay:

...the devs are working on BL4...

Wow i didn't know about that :polar:

I hope that Lilith will also be in Borderlands 4

Lilith seemingly "died" in a blaze of glory, as per the BL3 storyline, but she may be resurrected in BL4.

This sites summarizes the BL3 climax and conjectures neatly:
https://www.gamesradar.com/borderlands-3-ending-explained/

Vault Hunts rarely succeed without sacrifice, and the ultimate Vault Hunt in Borderlands 3 required a Siren as powerful as Lilith to give up her own life to stop Pandora (The Great Vault) being ripped apart by its moon, Elpis (The Great Vault Key). It's not exactly clear how Lilith did this, but we see her fly towards Elpis and explode into some sort of Eridium-fuelled supernova of Siren energy, brandish the moon with her Firehawk mark in the process.

It's pretty messianic stuff, which is part of the reason we're not quite sure whether Lilith is actually dead… yet. Many on Pandora, including Tannis and Ava, are seen in the credits sequence investigating their friend's whereabouts, which suggests she's merely "stuck in limbo" somewhere on Elpis or beyond, and there's a chance to bring her back. Our best guess is that this thread will be a dominant narrative arc for Borderlands 4 which, let's face it, is as inevitable as a Skag to the slaughterhouse at this point.

With Lilith gone, Ava has essentially taken over as the new leader of the Crimson Raiders, and Pandora is safe (well, as safe as it can be) once again. So… what happens now? During the post-credits, we see our heroes enjoying some well earned down time, with Hammerlock and Wainwright tying the knot, Tiny Tina and her adoptive parents Brick and Mordecia back to playing Bunkers & Badasses, and our Vault Hunters tucking into a hearty, post-adventure meal at Dynasty Diner, Avengers style.

Meanwhile, with Ava studying to become a full time Siren, I wouldn't be surprised if she's being poised by Gearbox as one of the next set of playable characters in a future instalment, but it's unclear whether the days of Vault Hunting are behind us now that The Great Vault itself has been dealt with. For now, we're happy to give Pandora some peace and quiet, but this is the Borderlands, and a new threat will surely rear its ugly head soon enough.

---

I also have a hunch that Handsome Jack will be resurrected in some avatar in BL4 (BL2 even resorted to a Doppelganger version of him as a DLC villain), because Gearbox still haven't figured out viable archvillains to replace him.

Tyreen & Typhon, the Calypso Twins characters, were criticized heavily by gamers and fans (because it seemed like a deliberate attack and provocation on real-life video game streamers, by Gearbox), so they won't be resurrected, but there may be some nods to their backstories in BL4.

[Black Hole]

I dont want lilith or any of the others back, look how they treated their characters in 3 and wonderlands....no thanks just let them move on and give us new interesting characters at this point.

[Uzkniso o.o]

Originally posted by Megatron:

I dont want lilith or any of the others back, look how they treated their characters in 3 and wonderlands....no thanks just let them move on and give us new interesting characters at this point.

Yea, tbh I am, also, all for a brand new cast. Especially, after what they did to Maya.

But I think, it's more a question of "who is going to return in BL4?".

[vee-kay]

We all know who will return.
BL3's bad mad child, of course...

Ava!!!!

(My brain already hurts from whatever nonsense GBX will write to make Ava into a main NPC (or even a playable character!) in BL4. Surely, she's being touted as the new leader of the Crimson Raiders, after Roland's death, Lilith's disappearance and Brick & Mordecai's retirement as recluses).

[Uzkniso o.o]

Originally posted by vee-kay:

We all know who will return.
BL3's bad mad child, of course...

Ava!!!!

(My brain already hurts from whatever nonsense GBX will write to make Ava into a main NPC (or even a playable character!) in BL4. Surely, she's being touted as the new leader of the Crimson Raiders, after Roland's death, Lilith's disappearance and Brick & Mordecai's retirement as recluses).

They will kill the franchise if that's how it's going to go.

[vee-kay]

They will kill the franchise if that's how it's going to go.

GBX and SBI already tried their level best to kill the franchise.
It is not a coincidence that BL3, TPS and TTW are unoptimized and with weakest storylines and characters.

TPS and TTW are flops. BL3, an older game, has more active players, despite having worst storyline and characters.

This Reddit thread sums up my thoughts about Ava:
https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d9o8az/as_an_author_i_can_explain_the_ava_hate_in_detail/

[Uzkniso o.o]

Originally posted by vee-kay:

This Reddit thread sums up my thoughts too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d9o8az/as_an_author_i_can_explain_the_ava_hate_in_detail/

Problem is, Ava is not a well received character in general, and it's not going to be easy and/or possible for the devs, and story-writers, to force the player to like her.

It would be easier to:
1. Kill Ava off;
2. Pretend she never existed;
3. Introduce an entirely new character, as a replacement.

[vee-kay]

Originally posted by Uzkniso o.o:

Originally posted by vee-kay:

This Reddit thread sums up my thoughts too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/borderlands3/comments/d9o8az/as_an_author_i_can_explain_the_ava_hate_in_detail/

Problem is, Ava is not a well received character in general, and it's not going to be easy and/or possible for the devs, and story-writers, to force the player to like her.

It would be easier to:
1. Kill Ava off;
2. Pretend she never existed;
3. Introduce an entirely new character, as a replacement.

Ava is already made leader of the Crimson Raiders at the climax of BL3, by Lilith before she "sacrificed" herself.

It didn't matter one ounce to the GBX writers that Ava was useless, dangerous (she killed multiple main characters because of her actions), arrogant, disobedient, and callous to others. Ava has zero experience as a combatant, leader or even as a Siren.

I agree with the Redditor that Rhys (who rebuilt Atlas, and fended off Maliwan attacks, by leveraging Zer0 and the vault hunters) would have been a better leader for the Crimson Raiders. Even Brick or Mordecai could have been brought out of semi-retirement to lead the Crimson Raiders and Sanctuary. Rhys and his bodyguard pal Zer0 (with help from the other vault hunters) could have righted the ship [the franchise (as a metaphor) and Sanctuary (as a flying city spaceship)] that went astray with the death of the extraordinary leaders Roland, Lilith (but is she really dead? BL4 may resurrect her), Maya, Scooter, etc.

But noooo - "Ava forevaaaaa" because she's the golden child of the GBX devs for this BL franchise.

So Ava is here to stay (for BL4). And she will cause more chaos and upheavals (in BL4). I wouldn't even be surprised if entire BL4 storyline revolved around Ava.

The devs decided to kill the franchise, and they're going about the easiest worst way to do it. Ava will be their torch to set fire to the once-glorious forest.

[Uzkniso o.o]

Originally posted by vee-kay:

The devs decided to kill the franchise, and they're going about the easiest worst way to do it. Ava will be their torch to set fire to the once-glorious forest.

Well said. In that case, RIP BL4.

[vee-kay]

Originally posted by Uzkniso o.o:

Originally posted by vee-kay:

The devs decided to kill the franchise, and they're going about the easiest worst way to do it. Ava will be their torch to set fire to the once-glorious forest.

Well said. In that case, RIP BL4.

There can be one way out for the GBX devs though.

They have to make Ava into an archvillain.

How about below storyline?

Ava was bestowed control of the Crimson Raiders at the end of BL3's events, thanks to Lilith, but she is still clueless, careless, arrogant and lazy, and people die around her as a result. She doubles down on the criticism by exiling or punishing the critics. Things go from bad to worse, when Ava starts using her Siren powers to torture her detractors in public view. The orphan child who was adopted by the Crimson Raiders and vault hunters, had become their tyrant.

There is a resulting rebellion as the Crimson Raiders want to depose Ava as their leader, so the retired vault hunters Brick & Mordecai are called in by the rebels (who are hard-pressed to take down an out of control Siren), and with their help, Ava is then cast out in a coup.

Ava manages to escape, taking with her a core bunch of loyal (bribed) Crimson Raiders as per personal troop. She then dispatches them across the Pandora world as her agents, as she sets about trying to do what neither Handsome Jack nor the Calypso Twins were able to achieve so far: complete destruction of the Crimson Raiders and the vault hunters. Her childish antagonism has morphed into open hate.

Ava somehow destroys Sanctuary, and leaves the Crimson Raiders rudderless and homeless. She opens vaults and unleashes monsters that terrorize Pandora. Bounties are placed on the vault hunters, so they are hunted by bandits and mercenaries wherever they go. But who's funding all this mayhem? Is it Ava? Who's funding her, and why? Who's pulling the strings?

New vault hunters are recruited by a desperate Rhys (Atlas) to turn the tide, as epic battles erupt across Pandora, as bandit clans, scavengers, Hyperion, Maliwan and other companies scent blood, and they all dive in for their pieces of the pie. Everyone wants to control Pandora, and in all that chaos, Ava is hiding somewhere, cackling with glee as she just wants to see everything and everyone burn, no matter what the costs. She sends messages taunting and tempting the vault hunters, using them to trigger or kill vault monsters.

Ava, the adopted kid of the vault hunters and Crimson Riders, is now their arch nemesis.

And that climactic war between the Siren-who-became-an-archvillain and the Rebels-who-want-to-save-Pandora can be the storyline of BL4.

Amara and Tannis realize that all Sirens go mad in the end due to their latent/innate Siren powers being amplified by imbibing/infected by Eridium. Their own superpowers make them do crazy things. Handsome Jack was a latent Siren too, but he didn't know it, so it made him do so many crazy things. But that's why his daughter Angel was a Siren, it's in her DNA (child of a Siren is born a latent Siren, but may or may not learn to activate the Siren powers). Jack, Angel, Tyreen, Typhon, Lilith, Maya - all died because of their Siren powers made them do reckless actions. Tannis has mental problems, because she too is a Siren, but her scientific inquisitive mindset keeps her brain from going haywire.

Ava was on the same "Siren going crazy" route, albeit going faster and deeper, because she thought she was better than anyone else and never obeyed her mentors, so she didn't bother to learn to control her Siren powers. She was a teenage brat who never outgrew her rebel-without-a-cause brattiness, until it was too late (she killed her mentors). She had set herself on a path of no return.

Ultimately, Amara and Tannis make Ava realize that her own Siren powers are the reason why she's being reckless and loving chaos. Stricken with anguish at her unavoidable fate (of going crazy as a Siren), and realizing why her mentors wanted her to control her powers, Ava finally ends up saving Pandora during a climax of apocalyptic crisis (created by her reckless opening of the vaults), by sacrificing herself in a blaze of glory, just like her mentor Lilith did. Tannis and Amara sacrifice their own Siren powers by letting Ava leech them, so she can do her climactic rescue of Pandora. Before she dies Ava cries for forgiveness, because somewhere deep down she felt she wasn't worthy of all the love and support the vault hunters and mentors gave her when she was a child so she kept lashing out in explosive anger due to her uncontrolled Siren powers weakening her mind.

And thus ends Ava's redemptive arc. Too late to save her(self), but not too late to save Pandora. Ava the Siren of Chaos, became Ava the Savior of Pandora.

Ava is already hated by BL fans. So the GBX devs can make use of that hate, and leverage it for BL4. That can be the only redemption for her.