All main characters in borderlands 3 are women

[丂卩ㄖㄖ几ㄚ 丂卂ㄩㄥ]

Lillith, Maya, Ava and Tannis. So where is the gender equality for men? I mean if you play as zane you not part of the main group because your character has no development or screentime in cutscenes. I hope borderlands 4 has both men and women in it as important characters.

[Profile]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Icedfate:

if siren powers come from demons, then maya and amara and ava are also demons.

also, the word "demon" didn't always carry a negative connotation. it's the judeochristian religions that did that. they pretty much denounced all paganism and whatnot. .while absorbing pagan rituals into their mythology.

Christmas is a pagan holiday, as is Easter and Halloween

i know i was saying it made no sense for Typhon to be Jewish but then i realized maybe Earth does exist in borderlands universe and earth's culture might had trickled down through the millenias. i suspect borderlands would be set far into the future through and probably typhon doesn't know what "Jewish" is, he likely inherited his Yiddish speech patterns through his lineage.


i mean, we are talking about fictional characters here. . .

well, whatever the negative version of "demon" means, that's what lillith is

that's an interesting question about whether or not our earth is connected to the Borderlands universe, how cool would it be if earth is one of the planets we can visit in BL4? and what would the year be on earth? it could be very cool!

[Profile]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bankai9212:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από not adding anyone sorry:

ok, let's just ignore what she did to elpis like it never happened, yes her killing all life on elpis is just speculation right? it was all just a rumor right? i must have been imagining that

ok, let's just ignore that she hires mercenaries (aka vault hunters) to wipe out villages and towns on pandora (populated by people she refers to as bandits), meanwhile, we're the ones killing them and looting their corpses, let's just forget about that

yay lillith is a saint, she wouldn't hurt a fly, what an angel I"M BEING SARCASTIC SHE"S THE DEVIL!!!!!!!

How is it any different then the amount of creatures killed on pandora? Outside of certain character deaths when has the series cared about vault hunter body counts? You are hell bent on painting Lilith as evil despite the series never claiming she was ever morally good.

i totally agree, others are acting as if she's a saint and an angel, i have no idea what game they've been playing

as for lillith's mission reward guns sucking, in my mind, she chose them, she went into her bag of junk and gave us her most crap guns, that's how i read the situation

[Profile]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Junipercat:

I'll agree with "dog eat dog" world. That is a big theme of the borderlands.

The more 'civilized' worlds would have the normal concept of friendship. Bandits/psychos in general are different. They have been affected to be mindless (almost) killing machines. True the plague of those individuals makes them victims in one sense, but it is to the point that you must do what you can to survive.

Per Lilith's actions and the lore, casually murdering children goes beyond the character.

We see she does something to stop the moon. It is unclear exactly how the Firehawk mark is on it, and BL3 doesn't go over the status of it since TPS. The writers and devs are not going to have her kill children. But their writing left this debatable plot hole because they didn't address it.

Regarding the massive phaseshift, I was only saying it would be a nice plot hook for the next game and be a way for them to address the situation after the fact. Until BL4 exists (if ever), or the company clarifies what is actual lore, it remains an unknown.

Ratatouille was about a rat who broke the norm. He focused on taste and being clean. He raised up the culture of his colony to be honest. It was a play on words that got the story inspired. The rats were treated as such in the beginning, but if you actually watch the entire movie (without covering your ears chanting "rats are disgusting", even metaphorically), you will see growth of not only characters but an entire culture. Doesn't matter how a rat in a kitchen would be in real life, as that was an animated story. You shouldn't apply strict real-life rules to everything that is fiction.

what about the tribal people on eden 6, men and women, living in those huts, those were homes, and we went in completely unprovoked, guns blazing, killing and looting like we always do, lillith and the vault hunters don't kill children because there are no children in sight, the people we attack have probably hidden them away in safe places, because if they didn't, we'd be killing them all, we have no issue killing young men and women, how is that ok? you're acting as if there's a line between killing innocent men and women, and killing innocent children, all of the above are evil, so you can't escape lillith being evil, we were never the good guys, because there are no good guys in borderlands!

as for ratatouille, all i remember about that movie was ratatouille taking a crap in people's soup, biting the chefs scalp and ears, and generally spreading disease, that's what rats do, and that's what ratatouille did, he's gross, and his paws are covered in salmonella, what a loser

[Bankai9212]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από not adding anyone sorry:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bankai9212:

How is it any different then the amount of creatures killed on pandora? Outside of certain character deaths when has the series cared about vault hunter body counts? You are hell bent on painting Lilith as evil despite the series never claiming she was ever morally good.

i totally agree, others are acting as if she's a saint and an angel, i have no idea what game they've been playing

as for lillith's mission reward guns sucking, in my mind, she chose them, she went into her bag of junk and gave us her most crap guns, that's how i read the situation

That's just due to your bias towards her, every character in the game is an anti-hero. While they do end up saving people the world etc. The means of accomplishing it wasn't what we'd call good.

[Profile]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από kukuhimanpr:

yeeaaaa i'm not joining the speculation debate about lilith being irredeemable demon or flawed hero or whatever. but overall, if we speak about the morality of the playable vault hunters, the vigilante hero types of vault hunters we've played at least have more moral stability than gta/saints row mafia bosses protagonists. seriously, gta saints row games allow us to just stroll around and killing everything in sight including civilian innocents and our allies for lulz everyday, getting both penalties and rewards by being chased by cops and rewarded by the thrill of massacring everything and looting their stuff ad nauseum. and our boss mafia characters in those games almost never show regret for their psycopathic massacres. at least the vault hunters we played are not having any intents or capabilities to hurt or kill any residents of new haven/sanctuary/concordia/whatever non-hostile towns without fair reasons.

here's my speculation about whether elpis is still being inhabited or not to stop this ocd about whether elpis is still being inhabited or not after b1.5 ending:

-long before b1, dahl set up a large mining colony in elpis. but one day, they dig too deep, and a cataclysm called the crackening happened on elpis, causing earthquakes, spewing volcanoes and savage beasts throughout elpis. dahl yeeted out with their yeet 2.0 electric boogaloo protocol like what they did to pandora. elpis population plummet, but as years go on, the populace starts repairing some of the damages, and elpis' population rise again at the time of b1.5.
-b1.5 had zarpedon's lost legion greatly damaging elpis as a whole with their nerfed death star ray by using the hijacked helios station. which means... elpis could have suffered permanent damage to its climate and planet stability. so... presumably, almost every elpis populace are forced to migrate elsewhere. the poor ones that can't migrate would all die shortly in the aftermath of zarpedon's death rayying of elpis. but b1.5 and b3 writers never mentioned anything about whether elpis is still inhabited or not after that zarpedon death ray which is basically the crackening 2.0 purple ayylectric boogaloo.
-b1.5 writers showed that pickle had moved and settled in sanctuary joining athena's storytelling session. which supported my speculation above that elpis is now uninhabited.
-tftb writers showed that janey and athena had moved to old haven in pandora after b1.5. so again, this also supported my speculation above that elpis is uninhabitable, and jack isn't willing to spend cash to terraform elpis because he'd rather build his turbomansion dream city called opportunity in pandora and buy a diamond pony for lulz.

b3 writers probably had saw all the points above, and casually conclude that elpis has been long uninhabitable after b1.5 and is totally empty of humans at the time of b3. so this gave them the opportunity to have lilith get an easy way out as a hero in b3 ending. while forgetting to give a bit explanation about the points above that left most players be confused about whether there's still people living in elpis or not at the time of b3.

and everybody would probably not bother theorizing whats the consequences of elpis' almost descent to pandora and now elpis and pandora's orbit positioning with each other get totally screwed. even space geographic expert would have given up immediately.

nice try, but i feel you're overestimating the damage caused, elpis looked fine in bl2 and bl3, and the close up in bl3 showed that it was perfectly intact, there wasn't even a hint of a crater from any such attack on its surface, tbh it didn't look any more or less inhabitable than in tps, it looked exactly the same

[Bankai9212]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από not adding anyone sorry:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Junipercat:

I'll agree with "dog eat dog" world. That is a big theme of the borderlands.

The more 'civilized' worlds would have the normal concept of friendship. Bandits/psychos in general are different. They have been affected to be mindless (almost) killing machines. True the plague of those individuals makes them victims in one sense, but it is to the point that you must do what you can to survive.

Per Lilith's actions and the lore, casually murdering children goes beyond the character.

We see she does something to stop the moon. It is unclear exactly how the Firehawk mark is on it, and BL3 doesn't go over the status of it since TPS. The writers and devs are not going to have her kill children. But their writing left this debatable plot hole because they didn't address it.

Regarding the massive phaseshift, I was only saying it would be a nice plot hook for the next game and be a way for them to address the situation after the fact. Until BL4 exists (if ever), or the company clarifies what is actual lore, it remains an unknown.

Ratatouille was about a rat who broke the norm. He focused on taste and being clean. He raised up the culture of his colony to be honest. It was a play on words that got the story inspired. The rats were treated as such in the beginning, but if you actually watch the entire movie (without covering your ears chanting "rats are disgusting", even metaphorically), you will see growth of not only characters but an entire culture. Doesn't matter how a rat in a kitchen would be in real life, as that was an animated story. You shouldn't apply strict real-life rules to everything that is fiction.

what about the tribal people on eden 6, men and women, living in those huts, those were homes, and we went in completely unprovoked, guns blazing, killing and looting like we always do, lillith and the vault hunters don't kill children because there are no children in sight, the people we attack have probably hidden them away in safe places, because if they didn't, we'd be killing them all, we have no issue killing young men and women, how is that ok? you're acting as if there's a line between killing innocent men and women, and killing innocent children, all of the above are evil, so you can't escape lillith being evil, we were never the good guys, because there are no good guys in borderlands!

as for ratatouille, all i remember about that movie was ratatouille taking a crap in people's soup, biting the chefs scalp and ears, and generally spreading disease, that's what rats do, and that's what ratatouille did, he's gross, and his paws are covered in salmonella, what a loser

What, all they said is the writers are lazy and what happens on Eplis is left undetermined like other plot points. All they are saying is Lilith wouldn't just kill children. Also to repeeat lilith has enough control to not kill people with her powers. Otherwise all the Bl1 vault hunters and some BL2 once's would have been effect when she used it.

[Profile]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bankai9212:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από not adding anyone sorry:

i totally agree, others are acting as if she's a saint and an angel, i have no idea what game they've been playing

as for lillith's mission reward guns sucking, in my mind, she chose them, she went into her bag of junk and gave us her most crap guns, that's how i read the situation

That's just due to your bias towards her, every character in the game is an anti-hero. While they do end up saving people the world etc. The means of accomplishing it wasn't what we'd call good.

i agree with the latter half of your comment, but the first isn't just bias, lillith gave us objectively crap junk

meanwhile, claptrap gave us things like the pearl of ineffable knowledge, he understands what we need and want

meanwhile, lillith just buys the cheapest junk from the nearest vending machine and gives is out as mission rewards

[Bankai9212]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από not adding anyone sorry:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από kukuhimanpr:

yeeaaaa i'm not joining the speculation debate about lilith being irredeemable demon or flawed hero or whatever. but overall, if we speak about the morality of the playable vault hunters, the vigilante hero types of vault hunters we've played at least have more moral stability than gta/saints row mafia bosses protagonists. seriously, gta saints row games allow us to just stroll around and killing everything in sight including civilian innocents and our allies for lulz everyday, getting both penalties and rewards by being chased by cops and rewarded by the thrill of massacring everything and looting their stuff ad nauseum. and our boss mafia characters in those games almost never show regret for their psycopathic massacres. at least the vault hunters we played are not having any intents or capabilities to hurt or kill any residents of new haven/sanctuary/concordia/whatever non-hostile towns without fair reasons.

here's my speculation about whether elpis is still being inhabited or not to stop this ocd about whether elpis is still being inhabited or not after b1.5 ending:

-long before b1, dahl set up a large mining colony in elpis. but one day, they dig too deep, and a cataclysm called the crackening happened on elpis, causing earthquakes, spewing volcanoes and savage beasts throughout elpis. dahl yeeted out with their yeet 2.0 electric boogaloo protocol like what they did to pandora. elpis population plummet, but as years go on, the populace starts repairing some of the damages, and elpis' population rise again at the time of b1.5.
-b1.5 had zarpedon's lost legion greatly damaging elpis as a whole with their nerfed death star ray by using the hijacked helios station. which means... elpis could have suffered permanent damage to its climate and planet stability. so... presumably, almost every elpis populace are forced to migrate elsewhere. the poor ones that can't migrate would all die shortly in the aftermath of zarpedon's death rayying of elpis. but b1.5 and b3 writers never mentioned anything about whether elpis is still inhabited or not after that zarpedon death ray which is basically the crackening 2.0 purple ayylectric boogaloo.
-b1.5 writers showed that pickle had moved and settled in sanctuary joining athena's storytelling session. which supported my speculation above that elpis is now uninhabited.
-tftb writers showed that janey and athena had moved to old haven in pandora after b1.5. so again, this also supported my speculation above that elpis is uninhabitable, and jack isn't willing to spend cash to terraform elpis because he'd rather build his turbomansion dream city called opportunity in pandora and buy a diamond pony for lulz.

b3 writers probably had saw all the points above, and casually conclude that elpis has been long uninhabitable after b1.5 and is totally empty of humans at the time of b3. so this gave them the opportunity to have lilith get an easy way out as a hero in b3 ending. while forgetting to give a bit explanation about the points above that left most players be confused about whether there's still people living in elpis or not at the time of b3.

and everybody would probably not bother theorizing whats the consequences of elpis' almost descent to pandora and now elpis and pandora's orbit positioning with each other get totally screwed. even space geographic expert would have given up immediately.

nice try, but i feel you're overestimating the damage caused, elpis looked fine in bl2 and bl3, and the close up in bl3 showed that it was perfectly intact, there wasn't even a hint of a crater from any such attack on its surface, tbh it didn't look any more or less inhabitable than in tps, it looked exactly the same

Elpis wasn't a thing in 2 and it 3 it just exists, just sounds like you just want to paint Lilith as just a bad person when she isn't. A bad leader sure but that's just more bad writing if anything.

[Bankai9212]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από not adding anyone sorry:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bankai9212:

That's just due to your bias towards her, every character in the game is an anti-hero. While they do end up saving people the world etc. The means of accomplishing it wasn't what we'd call good.

i agree with the latter half of your comment, but the first isn't just bias, lillith gave us objectively crap junk

meanwhile, claptrap gave us things like the pearl of ineffable knowledge, he understands what we need and want

meanwhile, lillith just buys the cheapest junk from the nearest vending machine and gives is out as mission rewards

First what guns are good varies from person to person. You are free to not like them but blame the devs for the weapon rewards not the characters hence bais. That was an accident do to him going on a wild goose chase it's not like he know where to get such a relic.

[vee-kay]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Icedfate:

if siren powers come from demons, then maya and amara and ava are also demons.

also, the word "demon" didn't always carry a negative connotation. it's the judeochristian religions that did that. they pretty much denounced all paganism and whatnot. .while absorbing pagan rituals into their mythology.

Christmas is a pagan holiday, as is Easter and Halloween

i know i was saying it made no sense for Typhon to be Jewish but then i realized maybe Earth does exist in borderlands universe and earth's culture might had trickled down through the millenias. i suspect borderlands would be set far into the future through and probably typhon doesn't know what "Jewish" is, he likely inherited his Yiddish speech patterns through his lineage.

i mean, we are talking about fictional characters here. . .

Correct. The "evil spirit" connotations for "demon" are from Christianity.

Even prior to medieval era, it was written and pronounced as "Daemon" (Latin) or "Daimon" (Greek), and it represented a supernatural being, not an evil one per se. Etymologically daimon is likely a cognate Sankrit "danava" (a race of Asura).

Trivia: Even the concept of "deity" (lesser god) originally comes from Sanskrit proto-Vedic concept of "Daitya", who are the race of Asuras, children of "Diti" who's one of the Mother (primordial) Goddesses in Hindu Pantheon (from her the "Daityas" and "Marutas" were descended). The other Mother Goddesses (in Hindu proto-Vedic pantheon) are Aditi (from whom the divine "Devas/Suras" such as Indra and the 12 Adityas like "Mitra" and "Varuna" were born) and "Danu" (from whom "Danavas", the other race of "Asuras", were born). The Devas/Suras and Asuras are half-brothers.

Trivia: the Celtic/Irish Goddess "Danu" is the same "Danu" of Hindu origin (she's considered the primordial water/river goddess), and several the rivers in Europe are named after "Danu" (such as Danube, Dniestr, Dnieper, etc.).

Trivia: The Avestan/Zoroastrian concept are derived from the proto-Vedic pantheon, and hence they revere Ahuras (~Asuras) as good divine beings and consider Daevas (~Devas) as evil (this is opposite to Vedic concepts of Devas as diving beings and Asuras as belligerent/evil beings). Hence their holy book is Ahura Mazda. The Zoroastric fled from the persecutions of the Persian wars, back to their home land of India/Bharat, and they call themself Parsis (original Persians) since then. They are respected minority community in India who have given India several industry leaders (business empires) and societal stalwarts.

Trivia; the Aesir (Æsir) in Norse/Viking/Scandinavian/Lithuanian pantheon are derived from Hindu Asura, while the other race of Vanir are derived from Hindu Vanara. Famous Aesir/Æsir include Odin, Thor, Frigg (Odin's wife), Thor, Heimdall (guardian of the Asgardian bridge), Loki (the trickster, ex of Jötunn the Frost Giants), Njord (the sea god, ex-Vanir) Tyr (god of war), Freyr (god of fertility, ex-Vanir) & Freya (goddess of fertility), Sif (Thor's wife). The Ašvieniai/Asvinnae of the Norse pantheon (famously visible as the twin horse-heads wooden emblem on Viking longhouses and traditional Lithuanian houses) is derived from the Ashvin twins (horse-gods) from Hindu pantheon, sons of the Sun god Surya (Savitr). In fact, the Viking/Lithuanian word for horse (ašva) is derived from the Sanskrit word for horse (ashva). It is no coincidence that many words in Lithuanian language are similar to classic Sanskrit language script. Sanskrit word for fire (agni) became Agnis/Ignis in Lithuanian/Nordic languages, Sankrit Deva became Nordic/Lithuanian Daeva, Asura became Aesir, Vanara became Vanir, etc.. the list of such ancient influences is almost endless.

Trivia: Why these obscure similarities though between India and European cultures? It's because Sanskrit and Tamil are world's oldest active languages (and so the proto-Vedic Indian culture spread outwards), and India has been populated since before the last Ice Age meltdown! In fact, scientists confirmed that the Singhbhum landmass (Indian subcontinent landmass) was the first landmass to arise from the last Ice Age meltdown, and this is why the Himalayas (especially Mount Everest) are the tallest mountains in the world - it's because they rose up first from the ice cold oceans, before other mountain ranges in the world. During British Raj in India, when the Britishers tried to figure out why the sacred Ganges/Ganga river waters never got spoilt (such was this fame, that British ordered only Ganga water to be stored on ships as drinking/washing water, because it didn't used to get spoilt during the long sea voyages), and why Indians considered Ganga waters to be so holy because it supposedly cured all illness/ailments, they found something incredible - the Ganga river was the meltdown of an ancient ocean in the Himalayas, and it had ancient bacteriophages (this was first discovery of bacteriophages as per modern science) that killed bacteria, and thus prevented the water from being spoilt and help to cure some ailments. It was practically the healthiest water in the world, thanks to an ancient ocean on top of the oldest tallest mountains (Himalayas) in the world!

Trivia: The computer term "daemon" (background program/service) is from Maxwell's daemon of physics and thermodynamics, but another IT legend says it is an abbreviation for Disk And Executive MONitor.
https://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Daemon.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/120ig8k/the_origin_of_the_word_daemon/

TLDR: it is foolish to think that "demon" means innately evil. It is a religious corruption in recent centuries, as its earlier connotation is "supernatural/celestial being". In Hinduism, even Asuras (Daityas and Danavas) are not considered evil per se, they are considered to be supernatural beings (half brothers of the Devas/gods, who themselves do not always behave in a divine or benevolent way; this demonstrates that goodness and evil are not innate traits but rather temporary behaviour based on social moulding and circumstances) who've strayed from their divine origins (as children of Mother Goddesses). There have been Asura kings like Mahabali who are still worshipped as gods in India because of their divine benevolence and incredible achievements (e.g., Mahabali conquered the TriLokas (3 worlds: Swargaloka/Heaven, Patalaloka/Hell, Bhuloka/Earth) but surrendered them when god Vishnu appeared in front of him as an ascetic dwarf (Vamana avatar)), while there are gods who have fallen out of favour for worship (e.g., Mitra, the god of light and Danu the Mother Goddess are almost forgotten in Hinduism these days, while they are still in favour in Persian/Iranian/Turkish cultures and Celtic/Irish culture respectively).

[Icedfate]

we're also taught that claptrap is morally bankrupt and has warped values. we aren't "supposed" to be listening to claptrap.
i mean, when you first get to sanctuary, claptrap has people imprisioned in what will soon become your room on the idea that he thinks they are more valuable as slaves.

an extension of this is how he tells all sorts of lies about his adventures and makes himself out to be the heroe when he never does anything contructive and then Ava comes on board and believes all of claptraps tall tales and thinks he's the coolest, so it's again the writers signaling to us that we aren't supposed to like Ava. .

but then i dunno, because then they try to make you feel sorry for the claptrap the whole game you're finding parts for his girlfriend and when you finally finish her, she leaves him. and then they make him sympathetic where he has some noble things he does at least twice aaand crap. .i literally forgot the first one , but the second one was way late in the story, there is a side quest to go dancing with someone and it turns out this person got injured and now lives in a wheelchair and she's all depressed, but claptrap cheers her up and teaches her that having wheels instead of legs isn't all bad and actually, i don't know why they put that quest in there, because it's so short and has no relevance to the story, but i guess it's kind of cute.

and then there's the scraptraps in the handsome jack DLC and you get to kill them all and the NPC even says "you asked for this" (as if to break the 4th wall, meaning you, as the players asked for the chhance to kill claptrap so here, here's 100 claptraps for you to murder AND a giant one as well!) but then later, the Scrapstructor makes a "heroic sacrifice" , not unlike lilith, but on a much smaller scale and then you are made to feel sorry for it because it's still alive and stuck there and complains about loneliness.


and given that we've been all sharing our Game Theories and then the mention of Ratatoullie. i'm reminded of Matpat and his theory that the Ratatoulle rat is not as "clean" as we think he is. . .

but hey, it's just a Theory, A Gam. . .
nevermind

[Junipercat]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από not adding anyone sorry:

as for ratatouille, all i remember about that movie was ratatouille taking a crap in people's soup, biting the chefs scalp and ears, and generally spreading disease, that's what rats do, and that's what ratatouille did, he's gross, and his paws are covered in salmonella, what a loser

He didn't do that to anybody's soup. He improved the big pot of soup because it didn't smell right to his highly developed nose. And it came out wonderful.

Though Remy is very intelligent and can understand the human language (at least for where he lives), he cannot speak it. So they were trying to figure out a system for him to communicate cooking instructions. Once they figured out the weird marionette connections, it was golden.

He is a cartoon rat that practices good hygiene and is very selective about what he eats. So he doesn't have disease and such, though that is all most people see upon seeing a rat.

He cooks good clean food, stopped his colony from stealing to survive, got them to appreciate the food along with being clean, helped the critic regain his humanity, and is a big part in a new successful restaurant. He is neither gross or a loser. Sounds like you either didn't watch it at all (just snippets or trailers at best), or you didn't pay attention and let your pre-conceived bias ruin the movie.

I am wondering if for you to enjoy something (game or movie) it has to be deep and dark while being a parallel to real-life with no fantasy elements. It comes off that you discount the fantasy/fiction elements of many of them.

[kukuhimanpr]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από not adding anyone sorry:

nice try, but i feel you're overestimating the damage caused, elpis looked fine in bl2 and bl3, and the close up in bl3 showed that it was perfectly intact, there wasn't even a hint of a crater from any such attack on its surface, tbh it didn't look any more or less inhabitable than in tps, it looked exactly the same

well, all i'm saying is just speculations of course. the only strong hints we got that elpis is uninhabitable after b1.5 are pickles and springs settling in pandora. otherwise, the writers are all forgetting to have any npc say anything about elpis' state in b2 lilith dlc, tftb and b3.

its like b3 writers are pondering what to do to make tyreen do the ultimate bbeg finale act as b3 ending, and suddenly they remembered b1.5 elpis is still hovering on pandora doing nothing... then they just decide to have tyreen drop elpis, with lilith's method of stopping its descent be complete afterthought they just wrote in since they're more concerned about how to rush the job and what 'unnecessary contents' to cut. so enough ocd about elpis and lilith killing elpis children with glee to go out as a 'hero' because the writers didn't bother to make a somewhat sensical b3 ending. why should we bother ocd-ing and correcting the writers laziness here regarding b3 ending when we can't even sure whether they want lilith in that scene to stop elpis to be painted as hero, fallen anti-hero, monster or whatever else?

b3 writers had written themselves to a very confusing labyrinth full of plot holers in every corners. i really wonder how b4 writers would continue writing the borderlands story and characters after the failtastic holey writing of b3. b4 writers would probably set the new b4 story in a very far in the future setting, so that they could safely start their own new and 'completely fresh' borderlands stories without the hideous writing flaws of b3 haunting them, with them easily writing all the og borderlands characters be just footnotes in history with most of them already long dead due to old age or something. but they'd probably won't do that, since the way b3 writers write ava into every b3 cliffhangers had already indirectly forced b4 writers to completely focus on ava's next storeh on her journey to become the suest of mary sue.

also, while ilith does gave out bad guns as rewards, her flame of the firehawk shield quest reward in b2 is one of the best shield for certain gaige and krieg builds.

about claptrap. he likes to break 4th walls. so don't think too hard about what he does. because he's like the paimon of genshin impact in borderlands, he can do whatever he wants and he'll always have the plot armor to survive anything the writers threw at him. though i'm already long sick of gearbox's long tradition of making jokes about 'kicking claptrap while he's down' thing. its basically forced ingraining of bullying and hazing claptrap to almost every borderlands characters, with few exceptions to that trend like ava and maybe gaige. gaige politely and reluctantly asking claptrap's help in glt is probably one of the very few scene where b3 writers accidentally do a good writing for both gaige and claptrap's character (i'd still won't touch glt and won't consider it canon though because they nerfed almost every aspect of gaige's character and have her be simping hard for hammerlock). both gaige and claptrap are dorky weird characters that had shared backgrounds as victims of serious prolonged bullying. i was really disappointed anthony and other b2 writers never try to explore the potentially close friendship between gaige and claptrap. having a b3 quest where gaige tries to defend claptrap's another mishap while claptrap proceeds to do another claptrap thing that both endanger and embarrass them both would be so amusing.

[Sir Darles Charwin]

Wow, this thread's gone absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane. (well, insaner than it used to be)

[kukuhimanpr]

at least the insane stuff is more exciting to discuss and somewhat more productive rather than just circling around the topic of gender equality or whatever running around that line in b3. i don't know how the topic leads to elpis' ecological habitability and definition of demon irl though. i'm sure the former inhabitants of star wars' alderaan planet can give more accurate answer about elpis' habitability since they'd call zarpedon's helios destruction ray feels more like suntanning in the beach compared to the empire's death star ray.