Ideas for Borderlands 4

[Redfield]

What do you think about having a Siren Man hero in an upcoming Borderlands 4? I would like this idea even because we only had women as siren in the three games of the series and a male siren as villain in this third game and I would also like to ask you .... why do you think you didn't put any character as dlc this time in the Borderlands 3?

[Junipercat]

Originally posted by Veni_Vidi_Vici:

A man can be a siren, just make it a trans man. Very progressive too.

Perhaps, but I would like to see the option for someone who is male to begin with. Otherwise starts as female but trans to male (for whatever reason) seems a bit cheating to me and doesn't completely count.

[Profile]

ok, just to recap what i've read up on, siren powers aren't inherited genetically, but are instead passed on by conscious choice from one siren to the next, and only passed once the existing siren dies

and if a successor isn't consciously chosen, then one is chosen by unknown forces for unknown reasons

the powers aren't genetic at all, since they left and returned to Lilith, almost like a spirit possession (we could even see the powers moving visibly through the air from tyreen back to lilith, so when it's not in a host body, it can literally be seen as a type of... not sure how to describe it, colorful ectoplasm?)

tyreen was chosen when nyriad's powers were released from the vault by typhon, so that gives us a clue that proximity might be a factor, the powers could have chosen from plant/animal/alien/human but chose human, and of the humans present, it chose the youngest female, so there's some preference for youth and gender (which was also the case with angel, young, female, and possibly close in proximity in time and location to the death of the previous siren who possessed phaseshift)

tannis somehow got angel's powers, but it was implied that items (including the vault key) imbued with angels memories and that tannis's interaction with them had something to do with it

but if left to chance, i don't think tannis would have been chosen, instead, like the previous examples, i suspect they would have chosen a young female, young as in VERY young who was close in proximity at the time of death of the previous siren

we also know that the powers can survive without a host body (as proven by the powers that were sealed in the vault), but they need a host in order to be used, there's also evidence that the powers are drawn to a host if one is present, and that it has a preference for young females for whatever reason

so it might not be the case that it MUST be a female, just that females are preferred, and young ones at that

but in the case that a male somehow receives the powers (troy leeching from both tyreen and maya), the powers didn't just leave him because he was male, they could easily have abandoned him and chosen a young female who was nearby if they could, but they stayed with him as long as he was alive, that's another interesting preference or rule to the powers

if a male somehow acquires the power, it will stay with him until he dies, or until the powers are leeched away

so that leaves us with the following questions:

what happens when a siren chooses a male successor?

what happens when the siren doesn't choose a successor and only males are present in the surrounding area after the siren's death? is the youngest and most feminine male going to be selected, or will the powers keep roaming until it can find a young female?

because we're seen that it doesn't need to be a young female for the powers to be used, just that young females are chosen if no successor is chosen by the previous siren

[Profile]

all this reminds me of the movie "stargate" (1994)

an alien was able to transfer its life force into a human host

it selected a young male because he was the closest to the ship's teleportation beam at the time of its arrival, the other humans fled, while this one boy actually went towards the ship (the alien was very close to death so there was an urgency to acquiring a new host body) [EDIT; what i thought was the teleportation beam might actually have been the alien's life force actually entering the boy, because the ship's teleportation device shown later required rings of some kind at both ends to teleport]

in this case, the alien couldn't survive without a body (which was proven at the end of the movie when it died along with the human host)

but as long as it transferred from host to host, it could prolong its life

but in the case of the siren powers in BL, there was no urgency, so if given the choice, it would select a young female

now, we have to ask, why would such a preference exist? the young part makes sense, the younger the host, the longer it will generally live, but why female?

why would a supernatural power prefer to reside in a female body? did it have an aesthetic preference? if so, was the power sentient?

maybe like stargate, the powers are actually the life force of an alien species, and that their original bodies were female, which might explain a preference for a host body that resembled their own?

[Junipercat]

Originally posted by no longer adding anyone:

I must commend you for a very well thought out and intriguing post. You've given me new questions to contemplate. And your comparison to a Goa'uld was very interesting.

[Profile]

Originally posted by Junipercat:

Originally posted by no longer adding anyone:

I must commend you for a very well thought out and intriguing post. You've given me new questions to contemplate. And your comparison to a Goa'uld was very interesting.

thank you, i had to google "Goa'uld" since i'd never heard of that term before

so that's what Ra was originally, that's very fascinating

i had always assumed that the dying alien they showed in the movie was its original body, but it makes sense that it was just another host body it had taken over, perhaps even one among hundreds of others over the course of its life

it's interesting to imagine what might happen in reality if a human was possessing of siren powers after being possessed by some alien force, if not the same powers, then different powers perhaps, they'd be capable of performing acts that would be considered magic, or miraculous, resurrecting the dead (including themselves), walking on water, reading the future, turning water into wine, and other such miracles, such a being would be considered a god

just imagine if that actually happened, you know what they say, fact can be stranger than fiction...

[Junipercat]

Originally posted by no longer adding anyone:

thank you, i had to google "Goa'uld" since i'd never heard of that term before

so that's what Ra was originally, that's very fascinating

i had always assumed that the dying alien they showed in the movie was its original body, but it makes sense that it was just another host body it had taken over, perhaps even one among hundreds of others over the course of its life

If you are interested in such a concept, I would suggest checking out Stargate SG-1. That series explores that concept as picks up some time after the end of the original movie. Be careful, it has 10 seasons so is a long ride. There are a couple other spin-offs, but I don't know much about them.

[Profile]

Originally posted by Junipercat:

Originally posted by no longer adding anyone:

thank you, i had to google "Goa'uld" since i'd never heard of that term before

so that's what Ra was originally, that's very fascinating

i had always assumed that the dying alien they showed in the movie was its original body, but it makes sense that it was just another host body it had taken over, perhaps even one among hundreds of others over the course of its life

If you are interested in such a concept, I would suggest checking out Stargate SG-1. That series explores that concept as picks up some time after the end of the original movie. Be careful, it has 10 seasons so is a long ride. There are a couple other spin-offs, but I don't know much about them.

thank you again, i'll be looking into it more, especially where it relates to the Goa'uld species, i think eternal life (or the potential for it anyway) is something that will always be interesting

while we're on the subject of stargate, i guess that's another similarity between stargate and borderlands, the stargate itself

before we found out that vaults were just prisons for monsters (plus some loot), there was that theory that they were actually like stargates, remember? but i guess stargates aren't required if the player can travel through space using sanctuary 3

EDIT: it's also interesting that the vaults were able to hold the siren powers from escaping even after the host died, so it was just in there, swirling about waiting for the moment the vault was opened, so it didn't need a host to survive, but it clearly preferred bonding with a host rather than not, it really is a mysterious phenomenon

[Mewsha]

A soft reboot of the story?

I know it's unrealistic, but one can dream. It's just so depressing how many characters were absolutely butchered in service of BL3's shaky writing. I guess we're stuck with what we got.

Rhys, Aurelia, and Vaughn are almost unrecognizable compared to how they were portrayed before. Rhys shows none of the character growth he experienced in Tales from the Borderlands. Aurelia apparently abandons all morals and principles she stood from in the Pre-Sequel to become a one-dimensional evil villain. They straight up made Vaughn the annoying joke guy. Krieg is shoved to the side and kept for DLC. You'd be mistaken if you didn't know Mordecai, Brick, and Tina were once major characters based on how they're treated in BL3.

Obviously what they did to Maya was horrible.

I also just don't like the new emphasis on Tanis. She's a good background character, and she should have stayed that way.

More respect for the characters would be great. This is where I'm assuming this game's writers didn't have a lore bible to refer to. They should probably have one and refer to it frequently so that characters don't make dumb choices that betray their previous depiction.

I actually liked all of the current vault hunters though, and hope they do return in some form for BL4. That's probably one of the only well written parts of BL3.

I think that a male siren character could be interesting, but I think they blew their chance on that one with Tyreen and Troy. I actually thought a big missed opportunity was Troy stepping out from under Tyreen's shadow. It would have been far more interesting to see him betray her, and it felt like they were leading up to that but nothing really came of it and we got a generic ending to their story. I'm not opposed a male siren that is a hero in the future though. I just don't know if they could tell that story in a coherent way.

What I seriously hope they consider is less jokes. Seriously. The great part of Borderlands games were that the more serious moments were given space to be that. Nobody was making a lame joke or giving a one-liner. Anytime a major moment happened you were able to feel the weight of it and the game's story was so much better off for it.

As for gameplay, I don't really have many complaints for BL3. I feel like the gunplay is still top tier all these years later.

[kukuhimanpr]

borderlands writers doing fallout bible-ish things for borderlands lore? i dunno. i don't want to expect anything from b4 writers after gearbox butchered many pre-b3 characters in b3.

but seriously... borderlands does need some kind of lore bible like fallout or elder scrolls bible. well, maybe not at the same level as elder scrolls lore... elder scrolls lore is M A S S I V E, despite some retcons and lore contradictions elder scrolls lore are still well loved by most of its fans.

[RoboSauce]

Regarding other VHs in BL3 I recall Gearbox saying it would be untenable because of all the extra writing and voice lines, heads, skins, balancing another skill tree and anoints etc. I'd love another one myself but I get the choice, as the games get bigger major additions can get harder.

[Krypto]

All I want is some better ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ writing, and more weapon types from each of the manufacturers. Give me Maliwan AR's, Vladof shotguns, elemental Jakobs, and improve rocket launchers.

[𝓵𝒆𝓰𝓰𝓻𝓪]

the most important... thing fix the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game. after Pandora’s Next Top Mouthpiece bug i got the next bug on The Kevin Konundrum doesn´t appear. so the dev´s need to fix that ♥♥♥♥. thats the important thing for me

[Junipercat]

Originally posted by Darkwalker:

All I want is some better ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ writing, and more weapon types from each of the manufacturers. Give me Maliwan AR's, Vladof shotguns, elemental Jakobs, and improve rocket launchers.

Jakobs is anti-elemental. Maliwan is always elemental. Those two are purists of those extremes.

[Krypto]

Originally posted by Junipercat:

Originally posted by Darkwalker:

All I want is some better ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ writing, and more weapon types from each of the manufacturers. Give me Maliwan AR's, Vladof shotguns, elemental Jakobs, and improve rocket launchers.

Jakobs is anti-elemental. Maliwan is always elemental. Those two are purists of those extremes.

More variety will only benefit a game like this. Also, Gearbox could find a way to incorporate a shift in Jakobs mindset to include elemental variants for their guns.

Why Maliwan doesn't make assault rifles is beyond me.

[Junipercat]

Jakobs has a passion about the best 'pure' gun. To make elemental would be an insult to their brand.

Maliwan being elemental, or other special effects, is their passion. I do agree that not having assault rifles seems strange as that doesn't go against what their weapons are about.