revolter: rakk attack vs fade away

[tools guy-kun]

this is going to be a fairly long read but it explains everything in detail that may be important. however, if you want to skip straight ahead to the data, read whatever is below the fake spoiler line. there's no spoilers in it, it's just there to divide the paragraphs.

after finding a revolter shield, I did some research on it and the effect it gives is a shock enrage upon shield break. shock enrage adds a 200% shock damage bonus to ALL of your attacks, which includes your rakks, grenades, non-criticals etc.

then I anointed it with the shield start activates any shield break or fill effects. I thought if I could pair this with rakk attack, I could essentially recreate what Zane can do with his MNTIS cannon and trigger the shock enrage pretty much whenever I wanted as long as I maintained my rakk charges.

so I did some damage testing in the shooting range and tried out my multi-tap pistol. without any boosts, my pistol does around 350k damage per shot.

I've tested out fade away's damage boosts first. I anointed my pistol with the fade away boosts weapon damage to 150% while active. upon using fade away, one shot did 1m+ regular bullet damage and a bonus 2m+ shock damage on crit, which was basically all my shots.

then I moved onto the rakk attack. same pistol, yet I anointed it with enemies hit by rakk attack take 100% more damage for a short time. I threw my rakks at the Jack target and I didn't notice any increase in damage from my shots afterward. my pistol did basically the same damage without any boosts along with the bonus shock damage. remember, shock enrage adds a 200% bonus shock damage to all of your attacks, so essentially my numbers were 350k regular bullet damage, and 700k shock damage per shot. does this mean that the rakk attack bonus doesn't work on the Jack target?

despite this, I feel like rakk attack encourages more anointment flexibility with your weapons, since it runs on multiple charges that have relatively short cooldown rates, and they're really quick. because of this, you can use stuff like on action skill end, the next 2 mags will deal 100% bonus (insert element here) damage, which is also why I consider changing to rakk, since you can add more elemental damage to your guns alongside the shock damage, essentially doing at least 3 different elemental damage types in a single shot if your weapon is imbued with an element already.

There is nothing here except plain text to serve as a divider

Short summary, here is the data with the multitap pistol:

no skills activated: 350k reg bullet damage per shot = 350k damage per shot

fade away build activated with fade away weapon anointment: 1M+ reg bullet damage + 2M+ bonus revolter shock damage = 3m+ damage per shot

rakk attack build activated with rakk attack anointment weapon anointment: 350k reg bullet damage + 700k bonus revolter shock damage = 1m and 50k damage per shot OR 1.4M damage per shot if weapon is anointed with bonus elemental damage for 2 mags

clearly fade away wins in numbers here, but rakk attack feels more flexible with weapon/shield anointments due to its quick use. with fade away, ALL of your weapons would need the same fade away anointment which can be quite boring, but it really puts the extra oomph in the damage. whereas rakk attack can get a similar anointment buff with the rakk damage bonus anointment or one of the bonus mag elemental damage anointments, which opens up more anointment variety but it's 50% less than fade away's anointment.

what do you guys think? or better yet, what would you personally prefer?

[smythny]

I have used both options, and both are fun to use. There are definitely weapons that will work better with Fade Away, but you have great flexibility with both Action Skills.

The only real benefit Rakk Attack has over Fade Away is with the Action Skill Start anointment on the shield, and you can easily spam Fade Away or even Gamma Burst with the right build or gear.

Action Skill end anointments work just as well with Fade Away as they do with Rakk Attack. Just need to abuse the the 2 action skill cooldown skills that Fl4k has.

Also note that the 150% Fade Away anointment is not always the best anointment to use with Fade Away. As it gives only gun damage, and Fl4k can get plenty of gun damage, other anointments can be better. The 50/100% radiation anointment works similar to the revolter damage, in that it will boost all the damage you do. N2M is also better depending on the guns used.

The anointment that boosts splash damage also works well if you have a weapon that does splash damage. As it is separate in the damage formula, it will normally boost damage more than any anointment that gives gun damage. The splash damage will also increase the damage done by Rakk Attack.

[Safarel]

I been played alot with a fade away, and now i play only with a rakk attack

With a re-volt, R4kk P4k class mode and Guardian 4N631 (On action skill end - Splash Damage is increased) single cast of rakk deals from 55 to 80 million damage, that instantly killed every regular or badass enemy

With hunter-seeker grenade (grenade throw considered as weapon damage, and every bullet that spawned upon throw could crit because of "Megavore", and every crit proc "Head Count" that reduce Action Skill cooldown), and all of this tend us to that type of gameplay where you don't need to shoot AT ALL, at least for mobbing

[tools guy-kun]

Originally posted by Safarel:

I been played alot with a fade away, and now i play only with a rakk attack

With a re-volt, R4kk P4k class mode and Guardian 4N631 (On action skill end - Splash Damage is increased) single cast of rakk deals from 55 to 80 million damage, that instantly killed every regular or badass enemy

With hunter-seeker grenade (grenade throw considered as weapon damage, and every bullet that spawned upon throw could crit because of "Megavore", and every crit proc "Head Count" that reduce Action Skill cooldown), and all of this tend us to that type of gameplay where you don't need to shoot AT ALL, at least for mobbing

Huh... yeah I’ve been using bounty hunter this entire time, didn’t think of switching it up. I’ll look into that, thanks man

[smythny]

If you really want to make a completely overpowered build, there is 1 similar to what Safarel posted. Rakk Attack with the Peregrine (DLC 4) class mod. Use the Guardian 4N631 shotgun, the Fishslap grenade mod, Re-volter shield and the Unleash the Dragon artifact. The only anointment needed is the action skill start anointment on the Re-volter shield.

Any enemy that does not die instantly from the grenades dropped from the Rakk Attack will 100% die from the DOT applied by Unleash the Dragon. You can melt bosses, including those with massive HP in seconds. Only issue you will run into is if a strong boss is immune to incendiary damage.

Easiest way to farm almost any boss.

[tools guy-kun]

Originally posted by smythny:

If you really want to make a completely overpowered build, there is 1 similar to what Safarel posted. Rakk Attack with the Peregrine (DLC 4) class mod. Use the Guardian 4N631 shotgun, the Fishslap grenade mod, Re-volter shield and the Unleash the Dragon artifact. The only anointment needed is the action skill start anointment on the Re-volter shield.

Any enemy that does not die instantly from the grenades dropped from the Rakk Attack will 100% die from the DOT applied by Unleash the Dragon. You can melt bosses, including those with massive HP in seconds. Only issue you will run into is if a strong boss is immune to incendiary damage.

Easiest way to farm almost any boss.

Hmmm.... this sounds very well crafted and I beeline I have most of, if not all of these items. My only problem is survivability. I’ve been sticking with the frozen heart lately with my rakk attack skill for the novas that health steal, and it’s been working like a charm with mobbing, but sometimes I feel like I’m lacking damage. Maybe I’ll try this build out, but mind you I’m not built at all in the blue skill tree so hope that’s not required.

[smythny]

Not required. Only thing I would recommend is Flock N' Load augment so Rakk Attack drops more grenades. I've used this build only relying on Lick the Wounds and the health return on Falconer's Feast. The damage is so ridiculous you won't really need to worry about survivability.

Doesn't hurt invest in skills the reduce your action skill cooldown either.

[tools guy-kun]

Originally posted by smythny:

Not required. Only thing I would recommend is Flock N' Load augment so Rakk Attack drops more grenades. I've used this build only relying on Lick the Wounds and the health return on Falconer's Feast. The damage is so ridiculous you won't really need to worry about survivability.

Doesn't hurt invest in skills the reduce your action skill cooldown either.

yeah, I made sure to get as much of that as I possibly could. do you have any passives on your gear that buff splash damage or? also the peregrine has a short cooldown apparently so it may need some spacing between timing right?

edit: I just tested this on traunt and... welp, damn he died in two rakk attacks. although against psychoreaver, that dude is a tank so he took quite a good amount of rakks during his second phase mostly, so i dont think it works on him. either way, thanks for the tip mate, I might utilize this a bit more if I get used to going down a lot.

[smythny]

The com I have does not have +splash damage. Though splash damage, melee damage, and incendiary damage will all boost damage.

Some bosses have hitboxes that are hard for the Rakks to hit.

Note that Mayhem scaling and the Groundbreaker Guardian Rank perk will play a roll in damage. I play on Mayhem 10/11. You will definitely get more damage from this setup on higher mayhem levels.

[tools guy-kun]

Originally posted by smythny:

The com I have does not have +splash damage. Though splash damage, melee damage, and incendiary damage will all boost damage.

Some bosses have hitboxes that are hard for the Rakks to hit.

Note that Mayhem scaling and the Groundbreaker Guardian Rank perk will play a roll in damage. I play on Mayhem 10/11. You will definitely get more damage from this setup on higher mayhem levels.

but here's something I don't understand, though. the damage compared to holding the guardian shotgun vs not holding it is VERY different. for some reason, when I hold the guardian, the rakks kills nearly anything instantly/almost instantly, but when I hold a different gun, it does no where near the same damage. how does the guardian take effect in this? I've looked it up on the wiki and found nothing that answers this question for me clearly as I'd hoped.

edit: found my answer. according to loot lemon:
Up to +400% Damage (Skills, Grenades, the Guardian's damage,...)
Damage increases the further you are away from your target, capping out at 25m.

I knew the damage increased for the guardian's bullets themselves, but I didn't know it spread to other stuff. now it makes sense. mystery solved, thanks so much for introducing me to the build. it's been fun pressing F for my enemies.