BL3 is amazing and the story isnt really worse than the other games IMO.

[Bumblebro]

So far the story itself is just as flat and edgy as the other games. I really dont get why people were Sh**ing all over it, its fine - all i care about (and i guess many other people) is the shooting and looting and the fun grind.
Are the Twins as cool as Handsome jack? Nah but they are fine mostly so far.

I also didnt have to skip anything, pacing was fine.
Also quiet enjoyed the sidequests.

Gunplay is the best in the series, hands down.

Still hate the DLC-Fest that is borderlands and will wait for a deep sale before i tackle any of it if its worth it...

[Roberick]

BL3 has the best gameplay, exploration (thanks to the crew challenges/red chests/Typhon logs), level design, soundtrack, build variety and the endgame content having actual raids with well designed bosses (unlike BL2 raids bosses, half of them were complete garbage) makes it the best Borderlands game so far.

The freebies (level cap increased, both Takedowns, all seasonal events, M2.0) and support the game has gotten was also another positive (you had to pay for that in BL2) and I did enjoy the Season Pass 2 way more than the headhunter packs (which were very subpar and not worth playing) even though it was a bit overpriced.

However, I do have to agree that BL2 had the better campaign, villain and humor. I don't think the story was THAT good like people circlejerk about (it has too many plot holes, contrivances and wasted potential) and I definitely feel like Handsome Jack carried the plot HARD because of his voice actor and delivery, but it was better than BL3's campaign, I think almost everyone can agree with that.

Maya dying (and the way she died) made people insanely butthurt and they wrote the story off completely because of it (and no, nobody gives a damn about Roland, is not the same). They definitely could've written that better, alongside other plot points here and there, such as the friction between the Calypso Twins (which led nowhere) and Ava having a more robust character arc and not being handed Sanctuary at the end (just give the ship to the BL3 VH, they deserved it).

That being said, if you're playing Borderlands for the writing, you're doing it wrong, this series is mediocre at best in that department and there much, much better games out there for that.

[Pandora's Actor]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nihilus:

All these things people are complaining about (whichever camp they are belonging too) are simply opinions.

sorry buddy but it stops being an opinion when the majority of the borderlands fans agree on the same thing. in this case.. the story of bl3 and the main bad guys aka the cringe twins oh and the poop jokes being bad.

[Lethe]

I'm at the very beginning, just made it to first planet with maliwan.
I feel like I have spent way more time listening to inane dialogue than actually shooting enemies.
I'm glad you liked the game, I hoped it was more to my liking like previous titles tho

[ProjectBlitz]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Holografix:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

The only reason plot wise that Maliwan exists on Promethea is because Katagawa wanted to take over Atlas which requires him wage war against it. Which is great and all until you realize that's what the Cult also and is what the cult would have done anyway without Maliwan. They secured the Promethea Vault and needed/wanted the key, they would have had to fight through Atlas anyway. Every reason Maliwan had to be in the main story, the cult had an equivalent reason.

>Crimson Raiders are looking for the vault on Promethea.
>3 vault fragments to make the Promethea key:
- Katagawa had a vault fragment (giant laser)
- Rhys has a vault fragment
- Maya on Athenas has a fragment
>Katagawa wants to build a mega corporation and monopolize gun selling across the universe so he is doing a hostile corporate merger on Atlas. Maliwan guns have been a mainstay in borderlands universe so Maliwan corporation story is about 2 gun manufacturers fighting a corporate war.
>Enter Calypso Twins. They don't care about Atlas or guns. They organized the Bandits (who make their own weapons) and they just want the power of the vault which is the monster. They only want the Ravager.
>The easiest way to do that is to ally with what they see as the stronger corp: Maliwan. (There is an echo where Tyreen mentions this).
>Tyreen also mentions that Katagawa should appeal to the desires of the COV because the COV don't care about what Maliwan wants -- which is Atlas.

tldr; Maliwan & COV have different reasons and motivations for fighting on Promethea.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

why, what, when, and where do Maliwan involve themselves with the great vault in the story seeing as the great vault is the macguffin of the whole story? The answer is unfortunately that they don't. They don't give a rats ass about the great vault and they might not even be aware of it, in short they have no bearing on the main story and they are simply there.

Katagawa is using a vault key fragment to power the giant laser cannon. But he is so rich and so arrogant he doesn't care about the Promethea Vault at all. He only cares about his corporation. This is his blind spot, a nuance of character.

I disagree that the great vault is a macguffin as it ties all the different planet stories together and is the main reason why we are playing as VAULT HUNTERS.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

Maliwan has no story reason to be in the game. Just the gameplay reason of being different enemies.

See above comments for refutation.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

but they at least need to have some impact on the characters and events that do tie to the main plot beyond stating they are allies especially since the cult have every motive, resource, and most importantly plot relevance to take Atlas with or without Maliwan.

1. They do have impact.
2. The COV have different motivations than Maliwan (they don't want to monopolize the gun market, they just want to worship the Twin Gods, etc...)

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

A basic rule of competent writing is to write in such a way where characters, factions, even objects have some sort of impact, either plot related, or emotionally relevant to plot relevant characters, or to the audience.

1. Katagawa was Rhys' foil. Their battle is an example of the corporate wars much talked about in the borderlands universe.
2. There were some Maliwan side-quest that shed light on Katagawa's mental state and family situation.
3. Without our character, THE VAULT HUNTER, Atlas might've fallen to Maliwan.
4. Maliwan is everywhere in BL3: Promethea, Athenas, Necrodefayo, Maliwan Takedown Blacksite, Slaughtersport 2000. THEY ARE A HUGE PART OF THE GAME.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

Unfortunately you could swap Maliwan with the cult and lose no plot relevance or emotional impact on any characters or the audience, at most you change some dialog between Atlas characters and Katagawa/Maliwan to Atlas and cult/twins and the chain of events still could play out the same with no plot degradation. Again this is leaves the whole faction feeling like a tagged on after thought written "just because."

1. Maliwan depises the COV, the COV don't like Maliwan.
2. Tyreen manipulates Katagawa to assassinate Rhys which is a fun boss battle.
3. It was fun to learn about all the Maliwan lore, about the Truants, about Katagawa, about how the coporate wars continue unabated even in BL3.

Maliwan's story was a nice addition to BL3 and from the echos and dialogue the story explored a nuanced yet tentative partnership between suspicious allies (Katagawa & Twin Gods). They were necessary to show a contrast in different styles of corporate management (compare Jakobs to Maliwan), and to put a face on the otherwise ubiquitous yet mysterious weapons manufacturer.

Again I've played ever side mission in the main game. AND again, every benefit that Maliwan provided the cult literally already had. Weapons? Clearly the cult weren't all packing Maliwan gear but their usually collection of anything they can get there hands on. Transport? Again Tyreen literally teleports entire drop ships worth of mobs on you all the time. Man power? Nope, the deal between Maliwan and the Cult was for the cult to provide the bodies. The only good point you made was that Katagawa foils Rhys. Unfortunately the Twins could easily have taken Katagawa's place and have no effect on the story outside of dialog, they could have easily fill the place of a threat to Rhys and everything he built. They could still assault atlas to get their key fragment, , the cult could already be in possession of the Key instead of Maliwan, after all it wasn't explained why Maliwan has the key fragment. On Athenas, instead of Maliwan, the cult could have attacked the planet. Literally everything involving Maliwan could be replaced with the cult and you would run the same story with no emotion impact lose and no plot lost, in fact the Cult has more reason to be on Atlas and Athenas than Maliwan, after all the cult actually is plot related to the keys, vaults, and Great Vault.

Sure, Maliwan would have taken over instead of destroying Atlas like the cult would have but seeing Maliwan doesn't take atlas, it doesn't matter what the cult would have done vs what Maliwan would have done as the plot requires the invaders to be defeated, plot wise the invading faction only needs to have a good reason to invade and fight Atlas and the vault being on an Atlas planet and Atlas being in possession of a key fragment is more than enough reason for the Cult and ties into the actual grander storyline.

And yes Maliwan are a sizable part of the game but are initially written in for the sake of enemy variety and feel like a throwaway, replaceable faction on Promethea whose writing could have been better or whose writing resources could have been directed to the main plot and characters. That's my entire point, that Maliwan's introduction is too long and bloated and is one part of the reason why BL3's story is not very good. I've been focusing on Promethea because I've clearly gotten ranty enough without touching on other places. But since you touched on it, why would the cult let Maliwan go after the key on Athenas? They didn't need Maliwan to take a planet of pacifist monks and they have a more vested interest in the Key than Maliwan.

Maliwan being on Nekrotafeyo makes the most sense since it is implied through dialog and echos that they were there for a while exploring Eridian tech and such, probably even before the war on Atlas, but after the twins had left. They aren't competing with the cult for screen time or plot relevance in this case because the cult isn't on Nekrotafeyo at the same time and doesn't show up until much later in an Area that is plot related and therefore the cult should be the faction there since they're the faction most related to the plot. On Promethea, every where Maliwan was and everything Maliwan did, the cult had the same or better reason to be there doing the same things and as far as we know both were already on world at the same time. This therefore makes Maliwan feel like a tagged on third wheel, i.e., bad writing. On Nekrotafeyo, the cult doesn't have to be where Maliwan was and Maliwan may have been interested in the area where the cult eventually shows up but Maliwan doesn't end up there because the cult takes plot precedence, not to mention that they weren't both already on world so it doesn't feel like you can cult Maliwan out and insert the more plot relevant cult like you could with the two being on Promethea at the same time and having goals and motives that aligned almost perfectly.

Anyhow I can tell I'm not convincing you but that's ok. I think I'm done with the topic of Maliwan. I've said my piece and take it for what you will.

[Holografix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Roberick:

Ava having a more robust character arc and not being handed Sanctuary at the end (just give the ship to the BL3 VH, they deserved it).

The Vault Hunter is a merc, they are not a leader. The Vault Hunter should never be the leader of the Crimson Raiders. They do not deserve to lead or deserve the ship Sanctuary III. All that 'deserved' stuff is ego-tripping players having a conniption over realizing that Sanctuary III has a woman at the helm, and that the Crimson Raiders is a siren, women-led resistance group. And it's so obvious too, all the hate is males having a stroke over Ava or claiming that BL3 belongs to them. It's so transparent and so cringe.

Get Rekt.

[Holografix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

every benefit that Maliwan provided the cult literally already had. Weapons? Clearly the cult weren't all packing Maliwan gear but their usually collection of anything they can get there hands on. Transport? Again Tyreen literally teleports entire drop ships worth of mobs on you all the time. Man power? Nope, the deal between Maliwan and the Cult was for the cult to provide the bodies.

Ok, so you think the Calypso Twins shouldn't have allied with Maliwan....fair enough. Storywise it is a bad decision for both because eventually Katagawa loses his life, and we get inside the Vault.

But, your point that the alliance was a bad idea is not reason enough to write Maliwan out of the game, or to claim that Maliwan is just filler.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

Unfortunately the Twins could easily have taken Katagawa's place and have no effect on the story outside of dialog, they could have easily fill the place of a threat to Rhys and everything he built. They could still assault atlas to get their key fragment, , the cult could already be in possession of the Key instead of Maliwan, after all it wasn't explained why Maliwan has the key fragment. On Athenas, instead of Maliwan, the cult could have attacked the planet. Literally everything involving Maliwan could be replaced with the cult and you would run the same story with no emotion impact lose and no plot lost, in fact the Cult has more reason to be on Atlas and Athenas than Maliwan, after all the cult actually is plot related to the keys, vaults, and Great Vault.

Maliwan has the key fragment to power the space laser. Maliwan is everywhere in the galaxy because of corporate expansion. The COV can't replace Maliwan because Maliwan has dropships, etc. Only after Tyreen takes Lilith's powers does she have the ability to teleport, and only after Katagawa dies do the Twins have access to Maliwan dropships (See Eden-6).

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

it doesn't matter what the cult would have done vs what Maliwan would have done as the plot requires the invaders to be defeated, plot wise the invading faction only needs to have a good reason to invade and fight Atlas and the vault being on an Atlas planet and Atlas being in possession of a key fragment is more than enough reason for the Cult and ties into the actual grander storyline.

You have a personal problem with Maliwan's presence in the game. That's on you though. I suspect no amount of story crafting will convince you otherwise.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

Maliwan are a sizable part of the game but are initially written in for the sake of enemy variety and feel like a throwaway, replaceable faction on Promethea whose writing could have been better or whose writing resources could have been directed to the main plot and characters. That's my entire point, that Maliwan's introduction is too long and bloated and is one part of the reason why BL3's story is not very good.

This is your personal reading of Maliwan in BL3. You claim the writing could be better, but you never offer solutions or examples. I played the same game too, and I didn't think Maliwan's intro was bloated or too long. Again, maybe it is just you.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

But since you touched on it, why would the cult let Maliwan go after the key on Athenas? They didn't need Maliwan to take a planet of pacifist monks and they have a more vested interest in the Key than Maliwan.

The COV doesn't let Maliwan do anything. Maliwan does it's own thing. Maliwan knows about the vault key fragments and wants the one on Athenas (Maya tells you that Truant is searching for the vault key fragment but is too incompetent to find it). Truant even says that he is a professional oppressor and enjoys invading planets and settlements. Maliwan is using a fragment in the space laser so they know how valuable those artifacts are to war mongering. Plus, Maliwan was tipped off by a traitor monk in Athenas about there being a vault key fragment on the planet (side mission data).

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

On Promethea, every where Maliwan was and everything Maliwan did, the cult had the same or better reason to be there doing the same things and as far as we know both were already on world at the same time. This therefore makes Maliwan feel like a tagged on third wheel, i.e., bad writing.

I don't think including Maliwan in BL3 is bad writing. That's your pet peeve. And I didn't feel that way about Maliwan and COV. I mentioned before that Maliwan and COV's interests are not perfectly aligned. Each faction want different things.

[Holografix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Pandora's Actor:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nihilus:

All these things people are complaining about (whichever camp they are belonging too) are simply opinions.

sorry buddy but it stops being an opinion when the majority of the borderlands fans agree on the same thing. in this case.. the story of bl3 and the main bad guys aka the cringe twins oh and the poop jokes being bad.

no, it never stops being an opinion no matter how many people agree on it.

[L]

It can be an opinion, fine, whatever. However, the overall all consensus is that BL3 from a storyline perspective is an absolute piece of garbage by most people.

You might have a group of people who enjoyed it, but most did not, so the overall consensus is that most people did not like the story, what happened, and the conclusion.

For me personally (opinion, and I'm with the overall consensus that it was bad from a storyline perspective) the issues involving BL3 is just bonkers.

I got a friend who was banned from BL3 simply because he went on the official forums and called Flak a "he" and this "supposedly" was so insulting that it warranted a ban because the creator supposedly made the damn robot "non-binary" which is the most absurd thing ever.

The robot has a males voice, and my friend had no clue that stuff like this was even relevant in the game nor did he even know (all of my friends who played with me didn't even know this including myself) and any person would have of just said "he"...but I guess this was wrong. Okay then...

Now, BL3 from just a pure gameplay standpoint is the BEST of them all in my opinion, and it's not even close, simply due to so much of the quality of life changes from BL2 to BL3.

However, it falls short on everything else, and this includes the cast of playable characters of BL3 vs BL2, in which characters like Maya, and Zero alone make the BL2 playable cast 1000000x better.

I really wished they just made a BL All-Star group where you can pick ANY of the characters from BL1-BL3 combined, which from a gameplay standpoint, would be the absolute best ever.

Yet, again the the purposeful push of garbage characters like Ava and the pushing of modern agendas within the game left a serious sour taste in most of the people who played the storyline in one way or another.

I had eight total friends who played this game, and after completing the storyline, 7 out of the 8 people hated BL3 storyline so much that they no longer play the game anymore.

Only one friend still has the game and "thinks" that it had a good storyline, so overall, even my friends coincide with the overall consensus of a terrible storyline.

Gameplay is great in BL3....but everything else is just so bad.

[ProjectBlitz]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Holografix:

Ok, so you think the Calypso Twins shouldn't have allied with Maliwan....fair enough. Storywise it is a bad decision for both because eventually Katagawa loses his life, and we get inside the Vault.

But, your point that the alliance was a bad idea is not reason enough to write Maliwan out of the game, or to claim that Maliwan is just filler.

I read everything else you wrote but quoting the whole thing would be a bit much considering how short my reply will be.

Anyhow, my friend, I have no problem with Maliwan and I don't dislike them. My point is not that the alliance is a bad decision. Just that the reason behind it is written very poorly. I've been repeating this for the last three comments. The way Maliwan is introduced is one of a few plot points and plot holes that make the story overall less than it could have been. I even said that Maliwan's presence on Nekrotafeyo makes pretty good sense as it progresses the story without feeling like Maliwan was a forced in faction with "Just because" style of writing because they aren't competing with the Cult already being there and making Maliwan feel unnecessary the way they do on Promethea or making them feel like they have a much weaker plot reason than the Cult like they did when attacking Athenas. There is no point in redirecting this at me as if I have some personal qualm. I've literally spelled out my logic and if you disagree then do so and move on. If you can't understand what I'm saying, just pretend to disagree and move on, you don't have to try and discredit me.

[Holografix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από L:

It can be an opinion, fine, whatever. However, the overall all consensus is that BL3 from a storyline perspective is an absolute piece of garbage by most people.

You might have a group of people who enjoyed it, but most did not, so the overall consensus is that most people did not like the story, what happened, and the conclusion.

All these kinds of posts always use the terms "most people" or "everyone" or "most everyone." Those are abstract placeholders to make the argument that there is consensus, that majority means authority. But there is no consensus. "BL3 story = bad" is just a viral meme. The same thing happened with Metal Gear: Survive, Death Stranding, etc...

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από L:

For me personally ...

yup

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από L:

Yet, again the the purposeful push of garbage characters like Ava and the pushing of modern agendas within the game left a serious sour taste in most of the people who played the storyline in one way or another.

Again with the move towards "most of the people." It's just some people who hated on Ava because she's a girl. Simple facts, and frankly truly pathetic.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από L:

I had eight total friends who played this game, and after completing the storyline, 7 out of the 8 people hated BL3 storyline so much that they no longer play the game anymore.

7 out of 8 is hardly "most people." And hate is such hyperbole, just use 'dislike' or 'annoyed' next time.

[Roberick]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από L:

However, it falls short on everything else, and this includes the cast of playable characters of BL3 vs BL2, in which characters like Maya, and Zero alone make the BL2 playable cast 1000000x better.

I actually disagree with this point. The other stuff in your post is things like the campaign being worse than BL2 (which I agree with) and the pronoun issues for FL4K, which has no bearing in the games quality whatsoever, so it's a waste of time to adress those.

You could've actually pointed out how Salvador or Krieg are arguarbly better playable character since they fill their own niche that they do very well (frenetic melee combat and customizable weapon loadout because lol dual wield) and that's very subjective, but the two that you picked up makes no sense and I assume you don't mean personality wise because all the playable characters besides Krieg and Gaige are flat as boards in BL2 since their dialog in-game is non-existent aside from headhunter packs and their battle lines are as generic as you can get (besides Krieg and Gaige, like I said earlier. Maybe add Zer0 there too because of his haiku weirdness).

Objectively speaking, Amara simply outclases Maya in every area besides being a teamplayer (which was actually adressed with the Purple tree in both threat generation and healing), starting from survivability (Sustainment alone is better than Maya's entire blue tree, which is mostly worthless aside from resing allies), speed (Spiritual Driver COM), crowd control builds (Ties that bind is a massively improved version of phaselock without the need to spec into an additional tree for CC like Maya needs to do with Motion/green tree), Elemental builds...and besides that she simply has more build variety that allows her to do different action skill builds with things like Phaseslam/Phasecast/Phaseflare, as well as melee builds if you spec into Green/Purple.

This is a very similar case to what happens with Moze and Axton where the former is just better in every single way imaginable (her gun builds are better and less ammo hungry, her grenade/splash builds are several times stronger, her action skill is a much better turret with Auto Bear than Axton even with her 2x turrets capstone...) , but I won't bother with it since most BL2's players agree that Axton just sucks.

Zer0 vs FL4K is a more debatable thing however, since Zer0 can chain melee kills more precisely if you play it well (and melee in general is a thing FL4K struggles to do, outside of very limited and specific setups), but in terms of sniping, survivability and crowd control, FL4K reigns supreme and has simply more going for it in terms of build diversity without the need for broken talents (cough Bore cough). Even at the highest levels of gameplay, Zer0 outside his action skill is basically a walking tissue paper that can die constantly from someone looking at him and his Decepti0n skill is a less refined Fade Away, since in the former you can only shoot or melee once, while the later is more customizable since you melee as much as you want while FA is out and can either pick from a 3-shot variety (aimed more at sniper/launcher builds) or continous fire with the "Gorillas in the mist" augment (for faster fire rate weapons).

[Holografix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ProjectBlitz:

My point is that the reason behind it is written very poorly. The way Maliwan is introduced is one of a few plot points and plot holes that make the story overall less than it could have been. I even said that Maliwan's presence on Nekrotafeyo makes pretty good sense as it progresses the story without feeling like Maliwan was a forced in faction with "Just because" style of writing because they aren't competing with the Cult already being there and making Maliwan feel unnecessary

Not trying to discredit you, I'm just having a hard time understanding your point. You never write how Maliwan's intro is "badly written" and explain what exactly is wrong, or how Maliwan's intro is a plot hole. You just simply claim it is "poorly written" without giving examples except to write that Maliwan doesn't have to be there because the COV is there. That doesn't make sense to me, because I think all the factions fit in the story quite well.

So without explanation on your part, you really aren't getting your point across.

[Winblows]

mediums dont change people change, the problem is that the story isnt any better or different then the other games, bl2 worked because it was a different time before people ♥♥♥♥ post 24/7 so the non stop humor was welcome, now the constant attempts at humor really dont get away with half of them falling flat, it just comes off at annoying

borderlands is stuck in 2012 and the once decent writting is now what would beconsidered run of the mill or trash tv that trys to appeal to the young millennials, bl2 came out when media was starting to appeal to these people but was once good has now been surpassed

also the antaginist's were annoying as hell, the ava maya thing was cheap, most of the story was predictable and never had anything clever go on, the whole forshadowing and thanks for doing what I wanted you to do vault hunter thing was meaningless and dissapointing
also the destroyer or what ever sucked, it just looks like a sub boss not some "destroyer"

[SkepticJoker]

Just finished the main story, it was awful. Ava and the twins were so annoying and cringe. That and all the main characters kept making not funny "jokes". Then Lilith did the super woman crap. Firstly it made no sense, secondly it was cringe, and thirdly Jack is right. Vault hunters are more bandits then they are hero's.

[SkepticJoker]

Then there are those cut scenes, like the one after you kill the first twin, the other twin almost kills your friends, and we do nothing to intervene.