The ridiculous imbalance between the classes

[Ghostlight]

Having played all classes to at least level 15, and a few (Gunner, Pet Guy, Siren) considerably higher, I have to say the imbalance is rather striking. Pick one of the following...

1) You can fire a psychic attack of some kind every 30-odd seconds that is less effective than your average gun and typically hits one or two enemies.

2) You have a pet that deals meh damage and can perform a lack-lustre special attack every 30-odd seconds.

3) You have a decoy and a drone that does meh damage to enemies.

4) You can turn into a giant mechbot that melts absolutely everything in mere seconds, including all bosses, and can last for 2+ minutes.

Seriously, Gunner is so much more powerful than the others that it is a bit of a joke.

Am I missing something here?

[Leg Day]

Feeling similar. Switching to Flack so my partner gets healed too. Gunner I was steamrolling and didn't notice she needed revives. I was winning too hard how are you going to be dying?

[JackBurton]

Regardless of characters compared, one cannot properly judge a VH until after earning enough XP for nearly 2 capstones - to buff stats for the things you're whining about.

edit: This applies to all games in series. Play Zane a bit longer then tell us he sucks and does meh damage and that Amara is better off using only guns.

[LT2483]

You are missing that skills can have a purpose besides dealing damage. Amara's skills are built in crowd control. Zane's have great utility (although you can have the clone built to do crazy damage if you so desire). FL4K has a mix of everything - damage, CC, utility. Moze is damage.

And before you continue to think Moze is the best because her skills deal damage, gun damage will out-damage the bear. Moze is the one who struggles the most to get her skill to assist with gun damage.

I'm not saying Moze is bad, but she isn't good for the reason you think so. Hope this actually helps... I feel like I've fallen for a troll post though.

[Nish-Ki]

My amara hits for 2mil, depending on the gun. More if I use something heavy like my sniper, she has gun damage conversion on red tree.
Plus She can become immortal from healing with Elemental damage, and "ties that bind" is hella powerful.
Blue tree lets her use her skill twice back to back.
Amara is lots of fun to play for me personally

[Linukas164]

Originally posted by JackBurton:

Regardless of characters compared, one cannot properly judge a VH until after earning enough XP for nearly 2 capstones - to buff stats for the things you're whining about.

edit: This applies to all games in series. Play Zane a bit longer then tell us he sucks and does meh damage and that Amara is better off using only guns.

I was going to say something similar, and not everything is based on gun damage, there are also things like mobility and survivability, also at max level with decent gear all characters are able to pretty much oneshot all mobs and oneshot / one mag most bosses, each character has some insane builds that have 1B+ damage. Also Fl4k's pet can outperform iron bear. Welcome to endgame powercreep, they are pretty equal, but each has stronger and weaker sides

[Holografix]

Moze is like Salvatore. Crazy powerful near max levels. The EZ Modes of BL3 and BL2, respectively.

[Ghostlight]

Originally posted by LT2483:

Amara's skills are built in crowd control. Zane's have great utility

Originally posted by linas164:

not everything is based on gun damage, there are also things like mobility and survivability

Why do I need crowd control, utility, mobility or survivability when I melt every enemy in sight in seconds? This is with chars around level 40 / end of first play-through, which is what most players' experience will be.

[LaeLena]

Originally posted by Ghostlight:

Originally posted by LT2483:

Amara's skills are built in crowd control. Zane's have great utility

Originally posted by linas164:

not everything is based on gun damage, there are also things like mobility and survivability

Why do I need crowd control, utility, mobility or survivability when I melt every enemy in sight in seconds? This is with chars around level 40 / end of first play-through, which is what most players' experience will be.

Different play styles and the fact that games like this are balanced around being max level and playing endgame. Not around first story play through or low level shenanigans.

[Amnesi4]

Originally posted by Ghostlight:

Having played all classes to at least level 15

yeah I stopped reading from this point onward already

[Kyoki]

As a zane main - just play more until you reach more capstone skills and can make a more solid build. Every Vault hunter has insane builds that can take on takedowns solo easily.

[Linukas164]

Originally posted by Ghostlight:

Originally posted by LT2483:

Amara's skills are built in crowd control. Zane's have great utility

Originally posted by linas164:

not everything is based on gun damage, there are also things like mobility and survivability

Why do I need crowd control, utility, mobility or survivability when I melt every enemy in sight in seconds? This is with chars around level 40 / end of first play-through, which is what most players' experience will be.

Any character can melt anything in seconds, you can just chose if you want to kill entire room in 5 seconds or kill each enemy one by one taking a second for each kill. Since most stuff is broken in terms of power, a lot players experiment with different type of builds looking for more fun or chalanges. And mobility is very important, who would like to walk in an empty dessert, while you can just run to the enemies and shoot them. For many players it's only a choice how to destroy enemies in seconds, some of them chose not to do that.

So players just mess around with unusual non standart builds. The other characters are for diversity. Moze is the highest damage character, but for many people it's not fun to play as her. Not all people are interested in oneshoting bosses and crushing all enemies, some of them like to grab a Jacobs gun and become a cowbow from western, some people like to watch their pet destroying enemies, some people like grabbing an enemie and waching the whole room explode, or punch someone in the face really hard, or just wach rack attack bringing all those ghast calls.

People have different tastes and opinions, just like in Bl2 Salvador is the most powerful, but if people wanted to bloodsplode the room they played as Krieg. If they wanted to snipe they chose Zer0 (or something else). Or just gaige with all that anarchy flying around.

Borderlands has never been about power, it always was about having fun (for the most part).

[Qwib-Qwib]

Well, I just started the game, but if it's anything like B2, you're gonna melt 95% of what you meet in your first two playthroughs anyway. It was a great game, but it's such a shame that it only really starts on Ultimate Vault Hunter. Everything under that is pretty much a long-winded tutorial, it's just supposed to help you get your feet wet and get a grasp of the basic mechanics. You didn't even need elements to get through them.

So the first 15 levels... Yeah, they mean absolutely nothing at all, they're certainly not enough to even start getting a good look at a char and what they can do. That's the thing about ARPGs and looter-shooters like Borderlands. You have to sink a few points into them, see what works and what get you killed, what's useful about them, even outside of pure damage. If it was all about damage, there wouldn't be much point in having 4 chars.

[Percello]

Every class has their pros and cons. If you focus on their pros and build on it, you will seem OP. This goes for every class.. and it depends on gear, of course.

[MeinChurro]

I'm pretty new to endgame, not many guardian points. Respecced into a full on iron bear build, and I can just shred enemies with Iron Bear (combined with annointed buff). It's actually so broken. Easy Mayhem 10 drops. I'm laughably weak w/o iron bear in mayhem 10 otherwise.

[smythny]

Every VH has builds that melt content in this game. Just some have much easier ways of making those builds. In this case, on Mayhem 10/11, Moze easily melts due to the insane Mayhem scaling she gets on a few skills and with Iron Bear.