When to start Night of the Raven?

[Siquale]

I don't understand when it's worth taking on this addition? Should it be completed parallel to the main walkthrough or after?

[Cortes]

At the beginning of chapter 2 would be a good time.
BEFORE marching into the Valley of Mines the first time.

[Siquale]

Originally posted by Cortes:

At the beginning of chapter 2 would be a good time.
BEFORE marching into the Valley of Mines the first time.

Thank you, I have just the second chapter and it’s time to go to the Valley

[Bilgot the Heartless]

Chapter 2 before the Valley is the best becasue you will back from Jharkendar much stronger and with a lot of gold. If you decided to do it later you must do it in chapter 3 because you won't be able to progress without it.

[Včelí medvídek]

both Ch 2 and 3 works well for me..

Actually Ch2 (valley of mines) is well designed for low lvl low geared characters, with most difficult enemy you have to deal with is Snapper... Hence you do not need do DLC area for it that has greater challenges itself.

That said chapter 3 Khorinis is brutal difficulty spike with wargs, dragon snappers and seekers released over whole map.. still you get better faction armor and such and can go to Jakhendar stronger than in CH2 than come back deal with Khorinis new challenges.

Only difference I found doing reverse and do DLC first is that I tend to kill Orcs and other enemeis in Ch2 valley that in general ares supposed be cleared no sooner than CH4 (=spending more real time than needed:p

For more smooth progress Ia ctually suggest wait with Jakhendar to CH3 and fight only enemies you have to till that.

PS:
I am now Mercenary route.. decided go jakhendar in CH3 and I have actually already Light Dragon Hunter armor for save Bennet (100/100/50/25) which will clearly help me clear the whole thing much mroe convenient and faster.

[[AK] GaroK]

Please, I urge you to NOT play before valley of mines in chapter 2. It's a really, really bad decision you shouldn't make.

People in this thread are veterans and optimizing playthrough for the best character possible as early as possible.

This way you will ruin the pacing. Chapter 2 has its own theme. You come back to the valley of mines, weak, unable to take on stronger enemies, especially orcs. You have to manouver your way around this very hostile environment, avoid them and sneak past them. So that when you come back there in Chapter 4, it makes things more special, as this is when you are actually supposed to be at your full power, no more hiding, just destroy everything in your way.

Going into Night of the Raven world kills the theme of Chapter 2 and makes Chapter 4 pretty much redundant, as what is supposed to be your first (re)visit in VoM showing you how mortal you are, turns into slaughterfest as you are a demigod with literal god's weapon.

[Siquale]

To be honest, I don’t remember why I did this, but I decided to look into the valley before the portal from the add-on opened. Now I can completely agree with this:

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

...
Actually Ch2 (valley of mines) is well designed for low lvl low geared characters, with most difficult enemy you have to deal with is Snapper... Hence you do not need do DLC area for it that has greater challenges itself.
...

Originally posted by GaroK:

Please, I urge you to NOT play before valley of mines in chapter 2. It's a really, really bad decision you shouldn't make.
...
This way you will ruin the pacing. Chapter 2 has its own theme.
...

Yes, for some it is better to finish the DLC between the second and third chapters, but for a beginner who is going through Gothic 2 for the first time, which I am, in my opinion, it is better to hold off on this.

Even more, I'm not sure if I should go through the DLC between the third and fourth chapters. The opponents, of course, have become very strong, as I can judge from the beginning, but perhaps the DLC is worth touching upon after the start of the fourth chapter, if possible? Don't even know...

In any case, many thanks to those who advised the addition after the second chapter and to those who advised after the third chapter. All this helps to understand the topic with DLC and choose the most pleasant path

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by Siquale:

Even more, I'm not sure if I should go through the DLC between the third and fourth chapters. The opponents, of course, have become very strong, as I can judge from the beginning, but perhaps the DLC is worth touching upon after the start of the fourth chapter, if possible? Don't even know...
:

The game solve this riddle for yourself - you are not allowed complete CH3 prior deal with DLC.

[Siquale]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

The game solve this riddle for yourself - you are not allowed complete CH3 prior deal with DLC.

What? D:

Okay, this is actually nice. Thanks for telling me about this

[Oneeyed]

Originally posted by GaroK:

Please, I urge you to NOT play before valley of mines in chapter 2. It's a really, really bad decision you shouldn't make.

People in this thread are veterans and optimizing playthrough for the best character possible as early as possible.

This way you will ruin the pacing. Chapter 2 has its own theme. You come back to the valley of mines, weak, unable to take on stronger enemies, especially orcs. You have to manouver your way around this very hostile environment, avoid them and sneak past them. So that when you come back there in Chapter 4, it makes things more special, as this is when you are actually supposed to be at your full power, no more hiding, just destroy everything in your way.

Going into Night of the Raven world kills the theme of Chapter 2 and makes Chapter 4 pretty much redundant, as what is supposed to be your first (re)visit in VoM showing you how mortal you are, turns into slaughterfest as you are a demigod with literal god's weapon.

Imho this is only true if you played Gothic 1 before Gothic 2.

But if you play Gothic 2 and never have played Gothic 1 then going to Valley of Mines in chapter 2 is just too hard for new players. The difficultiy of Valley of Mines in vanilla was good but with Night of the Raven they doubled to quadrupled the difficulty of orcs. It was clearly itended the people go to Jarkhendar first and that is what the developers communicated back then:
They opened Jarkhendar in chapter 2 so the players did not have to play through the whole game but can only play the addon and then stop it after finishing the addon.

But if you played Gothic 1 before then you points make sense because you know the landscape and all the caves and hideouts. So you know your way around and how to circumvent orcs and heavy monsters. New players dont - they just run into these really difficult monsters which have much higher armor, attribute values and hitpoints than in vanilla Gothic 2.

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by Oneeyed:

Originally posted by GaroK:

Please, I urge you to NOT play before valley of mines in chapter 2. It's a really, really bad decision you shouldn't make.

People in this thread are veterans and optimizing playthrough for the best character possible as early as possible.

This way you will ruin the pacing. Chapter 2 has its own theme. You come back to the valley of mines, weak, unable to take on stronger enemies, especially orcs. You have to manouver your way around this very hostile environment, avoid them and sneak past them. So that when you come back there in Chapter 4, it makes things more special, as this is when you are actually supposed to be at your full power, no more hiding, just destroy everything in your way.

Going into Night of the Raven world kills the theme of Chapter 2 and makes Chapter 4 pretty much redundant, as what is supposed to be your first (re)visit in VoM showing you how mortal you are, turns into slaughterfest as you are a demigod with literal god's weapon.

Imho this is only true if you played Gothic 1 before Gothic 2.

But if you play Gothic 2 and never have played Gothic 1 then going to Valley of Mines in chapter 2 is just too hard for new players. The difficultiy of Valley of Mines in vanilla was good but with Night of the Raven they doubled to quadrupled the difficulty of orcs.

But if you played Gothic 1 before then you points make sense because you know the landscape and all the caves and hideouts. So you know your way around and how to circumvent orcs and heavy monsters. New players dont - they just run into these really difficult monsters which have much higher armor, attribute values and hitpoints than in vanilla Gothic 2.

You are not supposed fight orcs in ch2. In opposite counter just enemies you can deal with (simple orc = wrong way) navigate you naturally through valley fighting mostly just wolves and bloodflies with few snappers.

It is better designed and tuned for low level and low gear than Jakendar.

[Cortes]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

It is better designed and tuned for low level and low gear than Jakendar.

No, just no.

It is absolutely mind boggling how ANYONE can think that first visit in the valley of mines should come BEFORE Jharkendar.
This game is supposed to be played the other way around, the enemies in the jharkendar make this absolutely clear.

[Bilgot the Heartless]

Originally posted by Cortes:

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

It is better designed and tuned for low level and low gear than Jakendar.

No, just no.

It is absolutely mind boggling how ANYONE can think that first visit in the valley of mines should come BEFORE Jharkendar.
This game is supposed to be played the other way around, the enemies in the jharkendar make this absolutely clear.

Well when game let you decide if you want to go to Jharkendar in chapter 2 or chapter 3 it only depends on players will. If it was supposted to be played only like that then you would have to go there in chapter 2.

I agree with others that going to Valley of Mines before Jharkendar is a nice experience for a new player. Every NPC tell you how dangerous is this place and better to avoid monsters, orcs. But looking from build perspective, it is always better to go to Jharkendar first.

[Oneeyed]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Originally posted by Oneeyed:

Imho this is only true if you played Gothic 1 before Gothic 2.

But if you play Gothic 2 and never have played Gothic 1 then going to Valley of Mines in chapter 2 is just too hard for new players. The difficultiy of Valley of Mines in vanilla was good but with Night of the Raven they doubled to quadrupled the difficulty of orcs.

But if you played Gothic 1 before then you points make sense because you know the landscape and all the caves and hideouts. So you know your way around and how to circumvent orcs and heavy monsters. New players dont - they just run into these really difficult monsters which have much higher armor, attribute values and hitpoints than in vanilla Gothic 2.

You are not supposed fight orcs in ch2. In opposite counter just enemies you can deal with (simple orc = wrong way) navigate you naturally through valley fighting mostly just wolves and bloodflies with few snappers.

It is better designed and tuned for low level and low gear than Jakendar.

That is exactly my point.

New players dont know this. They just run in and expect to be able to beat the monster who are there. That is the normal game logic. To avoid 90 % of the monsters in the Valley of Mines is very very inintuitive. And normal player wont do it. They are just frustrated getting into an area where they cant fight anything!

So getting to Jarkhendar first and being able to level up a lot and then going to the Valley of Mines makes a lot of sense for new players. Only people who played Gothic 1 first can go to the Valley of Mines first because they know what to avoid and they know Gothic is different in a lot of things.

[Siquale]

Originally posted by Oneeyed:

Only people who played Gothic 1 first can go to the Valley of Mines first because they know what to avoid and they know Gothic is different in a lot of things.

I agree, it makes sense.

I'm familiar with the first part of Gothic and other games from these developers, so I understand how their vision of the gameplay may be different from others. It can be really frustrating for new players to see how powerless they may be in a new location and they may not have time to understand that this is necessary. Although, I would probably still risk advising a beginner to go this route and hope that he can understand.

[OldFatGuy]

I just wanted to thank EVERYONE in this thread for a very informative discussion. I really appreciate the nuance here, and the thought processes regarding the pros and cons of this decision. I never would have thought of it in that detail before. Thanks again.