Is ''night of the raven'' worth it?

[llVIU]

Hello, I finished gothic 2 without addons, later I finished it WITH addons and the big difference is that night of the raven makes skilling MUCH harder, and the addon itself, the new map seemed... meh. Bland/boring? Most of all, imbalanced?

What do you think, I wanted to play gothic 2 again should I bother with the add-on again? Extra content sounds nice but not if it makes the game worse.

Or maybe you know some good mods/patches that I should use? Suggestions are welcome

[ShinraV]

l'hiver mod for rebalance + small additions that are nice to play as a returning player.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

What exactly do you find "bland/boring"? The map of Jharkendar or the quests, NPC interactions, dungeons, riddles, rewards?

If you do a good bunch within Jharkendar before entering the Valley of Mines, it becomes fun.

[llVIU]

yes, that whole new map seemed just... ''fan-made''. I'm not a fan of beaches, swamps or desserts, and that's exactly what the map had. There wasn't specific NPCs that seemed very useful (items, training, etc) or funny. Or anything. It just seemed like extra content that was forgettable. With or without the extra content, I could go about my day just fine, and the placement for it was horrible, it was in the middle of the game. I just wanted to finish a quest, get the eye of innos, and I found myself having to go on this extremely long side road. And in the end I still had the same exact armor... and the sword from raven was just stupid/strange, I think?

I wish I could say more but I just can't remember much about it. Something about stone tables too to increase strength but I don't remember. I liked in gothic 1 that you could just train your strength to 100 and then drink pots to boost it, but in gothic 2 it seemed overly complicated.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by llVIU:

I'm not a fan of beaches, swamps or desserts, and that's exactly what the map had.

And caves and temple ruins. And beasts you don't meet outside the expansion. Anyway, it's hard to please you, if you just don't like beaches, swamps or deserts.

The pirates camp offers one of the best quests in the game. To get half a dozen pirate companions when clearing a canyon from beasts and orcs.

Originally posted by llVIU:

There wasn't specific NPCs that seemed very useful (items, training, etc) or funny. Or anything.

Tons of permanent bonus options in Jharkendar. Skill teachers. items as loot and rewards, such as the bandits armor.

Originally posted by llVIU:

and the placement for it was horrible, it was in the middle of the game.

Nah. You get the offer at start of chapter 2, which is early game content, but doesn't imply anything about your level, since you may rush through chapter 1 and choose to enter the Valley of Mines before visiting Jharkendar. You may also travel back and forth freely.

Originally posted by llVIU:

and the sword from raven was just stupid/strange, I think?

In which way?

Originally posted by llVIU:

I wish I could say more but I just can't remember much about it. Something about stone tables too to increase strength but I don't remember.

The stone tablets are not specific to the addon world Jharkendar. You find several already in chapter 1 on the isle of Khorinis.

Originally posted by llVIU:

I liked in gothic 1 that you could just train your strength to 100 and then drink pots to boost it, but in gothic 2 it seemed overly complicated.

What would be the rationale? You can raise STR via LP as in Gothic 1, and eventually you will notice that it costs a lot of LP to raise it further, which will be the point when to start thinking about bonus options. Potions/elixirs are just one option.

Playing more slowly and exploring more carefully makes the game a much, much better experience.

[Freddie Leonhart]

You won´t want to miss that extra content in Jharkendar <3

[llVIU]

thanks for the post but I started again and I only get to START the whole ring of water thing AFTER I get my knight armor. In act 3. Not start of act 2. I was about level 18, I killed a few thousand monsters, I killed SO many monsters and I can barely weild some basic 2 hand weapons. All points into strength, very few into the basics of 2 hand, I am so far from 200 str. Only 100. Why is it so insanely difficult to train in gothic 2 NOTR. I still didn't manage to find out how to read stone tablets, and I don't think I want to, since considering how difficult it is, I need it after 200 str. And I don't have ANY points to spare to read tablets anyway since I'm absolutely desperate to train str. This is the imbalance that I spoke of. 3-4-5 points for 1 str. Killing one single seeker is difficult enough. And I haven't even gotten to jharkendar yet.

And to think I got tons of experience by abusing a glitch, near the old camp luring about 100-150 orcs near the ram on west side, then killing them. That took so long. And after so much exp, I would barely be able to kill 1 single orc 1v1. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Shadow beast rips me apart in seconds.

I am also playing some l'hiver mod something which makes it a bit better, I think, but in gothic 1 getting max str requires 9 levels, too easy, whereas in gothic 2 NOTR requires about 450 levels I think. And the higher level you are, the harder it is to level up.

About complcated - finding out where you can learn how to brew pots, the insane wild vegetation makes it difficult to find the herbs, training to brew potions, finding brew flasks, finding which teacher trains to 60, 90, 120, 200, which one is WILLING to train you (torlof stops if you become militia) some ask for money or a specific item (blacksmith in khorinis) or have to become apprentice to one, or find a specific character in a specific place (Diego). And the limits are quite low. 90 str? Can barely hold a sword with that. That's like 45 str in vanilla gothic 1/2. In gothic 1 you got diego at start and he can train to max str till the end of the game, no penalites, no max cap etc, it's the complete opposite.

I can tell you about raven's sword once I get it again. I think it had some strange magic effect that can kill people. And low base damage?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by llVIU:

thanks for the post but I started again and I only get to START the whole ring of water thing AFTER I get my knight armor. In act 3. Not start of act 2.

Why? All requirements but one can be completed in chapter 1. The final requirement is to report back to Lord Hagen, which starts chapter 2. And then you can enter the addon world Jharkendar for the first time.

Originally posted by llVIU:

I was about level 18,

Level 18 isn't much. You can reach level 14 and higher before starting chapter 2, and if taking your time to do stuff in Jharkendar, you will gain like 10 more levels before visiting the Valley of Mines for the first time.

Originally posted by llVIU:

All points into strength, very few into the basics of 2 hand, I am so far from 200 str. Only 100. Why is it so insanely difficult to train in gothic 2 NOTR. I still didn't manage to find out how to read stone tablets, and I don't think I want to, since considering how difficult it is, I need it after 200 str.

Uh, what?! You would be well-advised to stop spending raw LP into STR around 64, since LP are scarse and three LP per 1 STR is a lot, and you want to learn other, cheaper skills instead. To use the stone tablets, you need to learn the ancient languages from Myxir. With the permanent bonuses in the game (not limited to stone tablets), you then can raise your skills a lot.

Originally posted by llVIU:

And I don't have ANY points to spare to read tablets anyway since I'm absolutely desperate to train str.

It's the wrong approach, which makes the game way more difficult.

Originally posted by llVIU:

I can tell you about raven's sword once I get it again. I think it had some strange magic effect that can kill people. And low base damage?

Beliar's Claw. You can read up on it here:
--> http://www.worldofgothic.com/gothic2/?go=klaue

[llVIU]

-no, I got told only in chapter 3, I think when vatras sent me to lares and lares gave me a ring. I'm not talking about some loopholes. I'm guided by how the game guides me.
-well maybe YOU, since YOU are experienced but for a regular player, trust me, it was difficult getting level 18. And I do run around left and right exploring places and killing monsters. Again, I'm in chapter 3 and still am nowhere near entering jharkendar. If I was *supposed* to be in jharkendar then maybe the game should've told me to go there, and where it is, or how to enter it. It's not my fault. I'm following the game story here. And side quests. None of it mention jharkendar yet.
-Well nobody told me to NOT spend LP into str, so again, I refer to the ''complicated'' str system. Nobody told me either that I should learn tablets (in-game), in fact it's very vague and cryptic. All I remember was xardas said he doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about them and vatras wants to steal... eh, take them from me. I refer to gothic 1 again and the simplistic system, go to diego, learn str, that's it.

Think about it, is a game good if you have to go out of your way to spend hours, researching these details about some specific place and some specific way to train stats, and when to do it, where to do it, because the game (in-game) you simply don't get told by anyone? This is what I meant by overly complicated system. It reminds me of the idiotic system in morrowing where you are supposed to put your least favorite/used skills as main skills, and your favorite skills as minor skills. Completely backwards system. Oh and you can't change it afterwards, it's a permanent mistake made from the very beginning of the game. At least in gothic 2 NOTR I can just get another level or 2 and learn tablets, or go figure out by myself (no thanks to useless NPCs) where this jkhaar place is.

One more question though, don't stone tablets top up your strength? So then my max strength would be 200 and I won't be able to go past 200. And let me tell you, even with 100 strength, I barely manage to scratch the enemies. A regular orc warrior takes about 15 hits. The criticals from 2 hand sword skill don't even make a difference to him, he is THAT strong.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by llVIU:

-no, I got told only in chapter 3, I think when vatras sent me to lares and lares gave me a ring. I'm not talking about some loopholes. I'm guided by how the game guides me.

Then you've ignored several of the NPCs too much. Clearly you can join the ring of water in chapter 1, work for Vatras and complete his tasks.

Originally posted by llVIU:

-well maybe YOU, since YOU are experienced but for a regular player, trust me, it was difficult getting level 18.

With regard to Gothic 2, there is nothing that makes me "experienced". I refer to my first playthroughs. I played the game slowly and carefully, hording items and deciding carefully whether and when to apply permanent bonuses. Obviously, in the very first playthrough, I missed some bonuses, but the stone tablets, elixirs and various other bonuses cannot be missed.

Originally posted by llVIU:

And I do run around left and right exploring places and killing monsters. Again, I'm in chapter 3 and still am nowhere near entering jharkendar. If I was *supposed* to be in jharkendar then maybe the game should've told me to go there, and where it is, or how to enter it. It's not my fault. I'm following the game story here. And side quests. None of it mention jharkendar yet.

Vatras talks about it. It is related to bringing ornaments to the water mages, and there is even an option to be accompanied by Lares all the way to the excavation site on the isle of Khorinis - provided that you help Lares a bit, or else he cannot leave.

Originally posted by llVIU:

-Well nobody told me to NOT spend LP into str, so again, I refer to the ''complicated'' str system.

You should have realized that the cost per skill point increases. Why would you neglect other, cheaper skills (such as the weapon skills) in favor of spending awful amounts of LP on raising STR further. You could have noticed that there are permanent bonuses in the game, such as for special food, potions you can find/buy/craft, equipment.

Originally posted by llVIU:

Nobody told me either that I should learn tablets (in-game), in fact it's very vague and cryptic.

Of course, it's a mystery, but it should have raised your interest. You've managed to ignore the ring of water quests for some unknown reason, so you've not met the other water mages yet.

Originally posted by llVIU:

One more question though, don't stone tablets top up your strength? So then my max strength would be 200 and I won't be able to go past 200.

Skill teachers are limited to 200, but if you use stone tablets, you can raise attributes beyond 200. However, finding all STR bonuses requires careful searching, and only then you can get approx. +150 STR via bonuses.

[Turbo Nozomix]

NotR is awesome. I found nothing boring or bland about the new region in the game, quite the opposite: It's beautiful and I found it enthralling. The quests are interesting, the locations are filled with charm, and I found the whole thing very impressive.