Get rid of infinite ammo weapons / add harder mode / rebalance some things

[nickwithtea]

Please rebalance all weapons with infinite ammo - including the dlc ones. I don't see why you would exclude them from requiring ammo - I also think there needs to be a higher difficulty that limits strategems and respawns - It's a great game but it's far too easy - the only challenge is those terribly small survival maps and that's because enemies just spawn ontop of you with little wiggle room

Also I've found perks like displacement field to be too helpful - they recharge too quickly and give players too many extra chances when they should of been downed/died. UAV is OP and can be used forever - it shows every single research on the map over and over again..... The mini-map itself shows where every object is.. I just think you've provided too much to make everything too easy.

Hope to start some discussion w/ the others as well, once you know what you're doing helldive is no different than easy difficulty.. I think the fun in the game is also the challenge and there doesn't seem to be much of it. I want to feel 'good' after completing the hardest difficulty. For example a fully upgraded Breaker Shotgun is far too strong and requires no real aiming because of the spread and range.

[KrysisMode]

Nick you ain't realy gonna convince people like that. Especially if you put up the burden of proof fallacy on them. Try and calm down it does have a few weakpoints.

After playing with and without it I'm willing to say its only major broken feature is the ammo gimmick. Careful enough and you'll never need a reload with it and it's got enough stopping power to nail scouts and low level enemies in style.

However outside that niche use it has short comings, especially compared to an upgraded Justice. The lack of armor penetration makes clearing out groups alot easier as it'll cut groups apart at the same time saving ammo and time. Controlled bursts or single shots let it be accurate as the sickle, and it dishes out overall better damage since it doesn't share the laser's weakness on shields so it cuts them open faster. On the small ones it's not really a problem but you will notice a major difference on heavy targets.

On top of that it's amazing performance drops when a scout does pull something in on you forcing a runner. A justice can actually fend off small groups with ease.

It's really starting to sound like you have an issue with solo runs being comically easy if you abuse game mechanics instead of the sickle itself here. I've done solo runs with a breaker before it's not the gun it's the way things work in the game.

[StoneGolem]

I'm happy with the game as it is.
But I'm ok with the idea for a higher difficulty for better players.
Those difficulty levels might have some constraints as well.
However, pls don't touch my laser weapons.

[Patchy]

Publicado originalmente por KrysisMode:

However outside that niche use it has short comings, especially compared to an upgraded Justice. The lack of armor penetration makes clearing out groups alot easier as it'll cut groups apart at the same time saving ammo and time. Controlled bursts or single shots let it be accurate as the sickle, and it dishes out overall better damage since it doesn't share the laser's weakness on shields so it cuts them open faster. On the small ones it's not really a problem but you will notice a major difference on heavy targets.

On top of that it's amazing performance drops when a scout does pull something in on you forcing a runner. A justice can actually fend off small groups with ease.

Don't want to sound rude but it sounds to me like you just can't aim at center mass. It drops everything except elites in 3 shots - just like the justice - and the difference on shields is absolutely negligible considering you dont need to reload it and can keep throwing fire downrange. I can stand my ground with the sickle better than the justice because I don't have to take a break to reload and I can fire faster than I need to fire justice to keep it accurate without overheating.

Sure, the justice has unstoppable AP on its side, but the spread making some center-aimed shots miss unless you slowly tap fire + reloading means at best the dps is on par with the sickle, not above it, and I seriously dont notice any significant difference in group killtimes due to it taking the same amount of center mass aimed shots with both weapons to kill things, and non-center mass shots barely mattering. I will say it's not great against cyborgs - but then you can just use the breaker, and the justice isn't good against cyborgs either.

Justice also won't let you stand ground against a pack of elites, either. No gun will - you'll have to leg it or use a stratagem/mortars. The best alternative is using an smg or a railgun and stunning them, and that certainly wont kill them as fast. It just stuns them so you don't have to move. And those guns are worse for literally every other occasion.

[roy2k]

Publicado originalmente por Jubeithar:

Publicado originalmente por roy2k:

One real problem of laser weapon is the its user almost has no patient to wait for other weapons users to get their ammo supply, and just run away.

thats the problem of the person who's playing and not the laser.

And that's the abuse of laser cause this. Now the end game full of laser guns

[shiggy]

Publicado originalmente por nick:

Publicado originalmente por shiggy:

Evidently hasn't played to the point where elite mobs show up, or even tried to use them against helldive illum/borg patrols. If what you're saying was true, everybody would be able to solo a retaliatory strike mission on helldive with the Sickle alone.

The only thing a Sickle is good for is freeing up a resupply strategem slot, and that you get a great AR-like weapon so early in the game.

You can't solo retaliatory strike missions because you have no space to move, monsters spawn on top of you, and you're delayed when calling any strats. Compared to regular missions you can minimize/completely cease alarms and run away when an alarm is actually triggered

You can solo any regular helldive with it however. Please stop trying to argue that the gun isn't broken overpowered because you're just wrong, go ahead and raise valid points on how the gun isn't overpowered.

I'll start

Infinite Ammo
High Damage
Infinite Range
No Recoil

Yep seems balanced to me

Yeah because weapons are important in soloing Helldives, more than strategem use, map awareness, and running away.

Get real. Your gun in a solo is for clearing patrols and ambushers.

- Borg patrols at helldive laugh off Sickle shots, you'll be better off with a Justice.
- Illum shielded scouts require 3-4 center shots with the Sickle, you'll be better off with a Breaker, especially when they show up en masse. And good luck trying to take down Illum beacons with it.
- Bug scouts are a joke and can be killed with the basic Liberator. In fact, you're better off with a high rof weapon for these.

And you're complaining there's no recoil? LOL, if you hold down fire to the point where on any other upgraded gun recoil starts to show, the Sickle starts to overheat.

The fact that you also say it does high damage also makes me laugh. Yeah, high damage is great for wrecking unarmored alert mobs (you know, the ones that show up on easier difficulties) but you need damage AND penetration to even have a chance of killing the elite ones before they overwhelm you.

The real reason why everyone brings the Sickle: Nobody waits for another player's resupply drops in a public game. EVERYBODY in a public game likes to fight it out, meaning running out of ammo at inopportune times. Hence people bringing the Sickle.

But you can't comprehend that, and somehow confuse the game being easy (only because you run away from alerts) with the weapons being OP.

[Hina]

I would suggest having a fog bank kind of event, like localized areas of fog that would lower the damage of lazers. That way lazers are still viable, but you have to move out of the fog area in order to have full damage lazers again.

Perhaps the fog could also act like a smoke screen, hiding units under it or reduced vision, even aiding sneaking. The fog bank can move around the map, allowing new strategy.

[Moriarty!]

IMO, all guns should be balanced around AR20 justice,parangon and the breaker. Both of these guns are "viable end game". The other don't have anything special worth it.
-dual liberty need maybe more range.
-SMGs are okay
-pump action need more punch /CQC ability.add bayonnet ad ap round or explosive.
-Tesla shotgun Idk (one handed or more power).
-AR liberty should be the more accurate/ maybe give one/2 more spare clips since it's a beginner weapon.
-AR Patriot is a spray and pray weapon. IDK but maybe incendiary round would be okay as final upgrade.
-DLC sniper rifle should have AP rounds.
-The main problem of the sickle is that it take the role of sniper rifles. His range should be reduced to AR range. but i'm also okay if lazer guns consume their baterries.

[laurifen]

Why the hate for lasers? It's almost as if some people don't want any of the weapons to be more useful than any of the others. Why does every gun in the game have to be exactly equal to the others, like it's a zero-sum game? What's wrong with unlocking a weapon that has more utility than some others?

I'm not saying that I agree that the gun's overpowered, but what's wrong with having a weapon that you don't have to reload if you're careful with it?

[Katz]

Whiners can't control their Spray & Pray fingers and wanna whine about the only way to survive this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥?

...if they Nerf Pulse Weapons just cause of your crying, imma go back to playing Witcher 3.

[Flo]

What would you do as a lvl 15 difficulty though? There's only so much tanks you can put on the screen as the same time
In lvl 12 it's already a spawn galore, you just run to make them disappear. A lvl 15 diff wouldn't change anything unless it has really different gameplay

[nickwithtea]

Publicado originalmente por Nyaru:

What would you do as a lvl 15 difficulty though? There's only so much tanks you can put on the screen as the same time
In lvl 12 it's already a spawn galore, you just run to make them disappear. A lvl 15 diff wouldn't change anything unless it has really different gameplay

Limit amount of stratagem uses
Force alarm during objectives
Limit Amount of Respawns

Are just some examples

[Kermer]

TBH Patriot is better than laser carbine, but you need to bring ammo (1 less slot to customize)

If you want to make it harder - just play with some noobs/newbies. You'll find diff 7 harder than 12...

[Xilia]

Although it does lower damage. The first shot doesn't generate heat. So tapping, especially with mouse, makes it super easy to just shoot the borders for sniping random patrols. Even though lower damage.. It kills anyhting outright in a few shots other then the toughest enemies in the game. It is less usefull against illumy, though. But hands down. bugs don't stand a chance against it. 2 people concentrated fire even lay waste to brood commander in a few moments.

http://puu.sh/m3D5Z/b21706eaf6.jpg <- u can see that my rifle just fired but generated literally no heat
Here is my team doing lv 12 with ease. Only one death occured, and that was from the shuttle landing on his head.
No need to nerf it really. Just remove that one tap-no heat thing. now I feel an idiot if I take anything else then the sickle for bug missions.