Suggestion - Crosshair Always Visible

[SnarKs]

Can we please? Its so disorientating the way it is. Aiming in the direction the character is facing feels pretty bad. On a controller you can easily just push the joystick in the direction you plan to aim in, and have a better idea of where the hell youre aiming.

Edit - My hand cant resync itself with a crosshair if it is constantly resetting itself and going invisible. Sure, I can tell what direction my character is facing, but my crosshair is resetting itself constantly, so my hand has to fight to resync with the crosshair everytime I aim.

Edit 2 -
Just to help clarify things a bit more, because it seems like some people are confused. I, and some others, are not asking for the ability to instantly turn around with the mouse. We understand that the turning speed of the helldivers is an intentional game design choice, different weapons have different turning speeds, we understand this. We just want to be able to get a grasp of where our desired aim is going to be when we do aim, just like the controller does with joysticks. Both of which have turning speeds when aiming. No "Insta Turning", like Alien Swarm or Gauntlet.

[Euphytose]

Just make a carbon copy of the way Alien Swarm works.

[SnarKs]

Publicado originalmente por DSNeverShift McDouche:

Hey guys. I'm Johan Pilestedt, game director of Helldivers and we are closely watching this conversation.

We were uncertain what the PC-community would feel about the crosshair. We initially had it on screen at all times with aiming making the helldiver facing it. This proved to make snapshots and accurate fire very easy, outmatching the controller.

Our solution was to steal your crosshair, and initially we were sceptical about the way it felt, but after some playtesting it felt more natural to us.

We might correct this next week if y'all just believe it's frustrating. (Enjoyment > balance).

Thanks for playing BTW, I really appreciate all the great reviews and upvotes. Keep on spreading democracy.

Yeah, making the helldiver face the crosshair at all times definitely is not how I want it to work. Just likes you said, it makes the helldiver too accurate and fast.

I think the best solution is to make the helldiver face in the direction of the movement keys, and with the crosshair visible at all times, the helldiver would point and aim towards the crosshair when the player has begun to aim.

I feel like thats the better of the choices. Thanks for taking the time to fill us in and read our feedback!

Publicado originalmente por Euphytose:

Just make a carbon copy of the way Alien Swarm works.

That actually sounds like how they initially had it setup. Which in turn makes the helldiver too fast and accurate, and gives the player the ability to run backwards. Definitely not how the game is designed to be played.

They dont want helldivers to be a fast paced top down shooter like alien swarm, running backwards from hordes of enemies and firing with snapshot aiming.

[Euphytose]

Publicado originalmente por SnarKs:

Publicado originalmente por DSNeverShift McDouche:

Hey guys. I'm Johan Pilestedt, game director of Helldivers and we are closely watching this conversation.

We were uncertain what the PC-community would feel about the crosshair. We initially had it on screen at all times with aiming making the helldiver facing it. This proved to make snapshots and accurate fire very easy, outmatching the controller.

Our solution was to steal your crosshair, and initially we were sceptical about the way it felt, but after some playtesting it felt more natural to us.

We might correct this next week if y'all just believe it's frustrating. (Enjoyment > balance).

Thanks for playing BTW, I really appreciate all the great reviews and upvotes. Keep on spreading democracy.

Yeah, making the helldiver face the crosshair at all times definitely is not how I want it to work. Just likes you said, it makes the helldiver too accurate and fast.

I think the best solution is to make the helldiver face in the direction of the movement keys, and with the crosshair visible at all times, the helldiver would point and aim towards the crosshair when the player has begun to aim.

I feel like thats the better of the choices. Thanks for taking the time to fill us in and read our feedback!

"too accurate" really?

Twin stick shooters don't work like that. You move with WSAD relative to the screen, and aim with the cursor. Everything else is counter-intuitive.

I'm glad I found this thread, this is the type of things that would have instantly called for a refund.

And devs worried that "the mouse outmatch the controller", huh... You don't say?

Potential to be a great game but currently dumbed down.

[Euphytose]

Publicado originalmente por SnarKs:

Publicado originalmente por Euphytose:

Just make a carbon copy of the way Alien Swarm works.

That actually sounds like how they initially had it setup. Which in turn makes the helldiver too fast and accurate, and gives the player the ability to run backwards. Definitely not how the game is designed to be played.

They dont want helldivers to be a fast paced top down shooter like alien swarm, running backwards from hordes of enemies and firing with snapshot aiming.

Then it's not a twin stick shooter, it's a pseudo tactical game with top down view.

[Proper Skux]

Yeah, games designed around their primary control method. How disgusting?

Like I can get people who don't like the current KBAM set up but 'how dare you not design this PS4 exclusive to play well if you completely change the control set up to focus on KBAM as the dominant option' is kinda an absurd complaint.

[punchobastardo]

Publicado originalmente por DSNeverShift McDouche:

Hey guys. I'm Johan Pilestedt, game director of Helldivers and we are closely watching this conversation.

We were uncertain what the PC-community would feel about the crosshair. We initially had it on screen at all times with aiming making the helldiver facing it. This proved to make snapshots and accurate fire very easy, outmatching the controller.

Our solution was to steal your crosshair, and initially we were sceptical about the way it felt, but after some playtesting it felt more natural to us.

We might correct this next week if y'all just believe it's frustrating. (Enjoyment > balance).

Thanks for playing BTW, I really appreciate all the great reviews and upvotes. Keep on spreading democracy.

Thank you Johan and you guys from AH for the "divine":) intervention, it came at the best time as this discussion was slowly heading to not quite sane territories. I only have to say that decisions of the last time don't work quite good most of the time and that I am very happy as a PC user with KB+M and a big fan of your games and talent that you acknowledge this issue. I don't mind playing an easier game as long as it is fun -and you guys are the synonym of fun- so I would prefer other measures on behalf of you to make the game more challenging, let's say by turning up the difficulty a notch or two with more enemies or more HP or.. -well you are better in that department so I'll just leave it to you:) - instead of crippling some mechanic for it to do it. So again, I'm looking forward to the return of what was there in the first place and thank you very much for listening.

[Euphytose]

Publicado originalmente por Albino Bunny:

Yeah, games designed around their primary control method. How disgusting?

Like I can get people who don't like the current KBAM set up but 'how dare you not design this PS4 exclusive to play well if you completely change the control set up to focus on KBAM as the dominant option' is kinda an absurd complaint.

You're not making any sense. Geometry Wars is a twin stick shooter, that I play with a controller, and it doesn't work like they say this game works. The crosshair is just here for added precision, you can play my way of doing controls with a controller and it's still going to be better.

[Proper Skux]

Publicado originalmente por Euphytose:

Publicado originalmente por Albino Bunny:

Yeah, games designed around their primary control method. How disgusting?

Like I can get people who don't like the current KBAM set up but 'how dare you not design this PS4 exclusive to play well if you completely change the control set up to focus on KBAM as the dominant option' is kinda an absurd complaint.

You're not making any sense. Geometry Wars is a twin stick shooter, that I play with a controller, and it doesn't work like they say this game works. The crosshair is just here for added precision, you can play my way of doing controls with a controller and it's still going to be better.

Because Geometry Wars and Helldivers are different games that only really have similarities in 'are top down and let you shoot things'. Helldivers has a bunch of mechanical stuff like turn speed, the trade off between aiming and sprinting and the risk of friendly fire that makes how it controls important and tied to the controller. If that wasn't the case Arrowhead would've gone straight to always on crosshairs. It's not like this is their first PC game.

The crosshair is in the game as is and allows for plenty of precision. It's just not always on to prevent perfect snap shotting, which would make the game significantly easier.

[Euphytose]

Publicado originalmente por Albino Bunny:

Publicado originalmente por Euphytose:

You're not making any sense. Geometry Wars is a twin stick shooter, that I play with a controller, and it doesn't work like they say this game works. The crosshair is just here for added precision, you can play my way of doing controls with a controller and it's still going to be better.

Because Geometry Wars and Helldivers are different games that only really have similarities in 'are top down and let you shoot things'. Helldivers has a bunch of mechanical stuff like turn speed, the trade off between aiming and sprinting and the risk of friendly fire that makes how it controls important and tied to the controller. If that wasn't the case Arrowhead would've gone straight to always on crosshairs. It's not like this is their first PC game.

The crosshair is in the game as is and allows for plenty of precision. It's just not always on to prevent perfect snap shotting, which would make the game significantly easier.

Then, as I said, it's not a twin stick shooter. If you want a good twin stick shooter made by people (actually, one guy), who knows what this means, look up "Nation Red".

Dumbing down controls is possibly the worst way of increasing difficulty. Even the usual "more health more damage" is better.

[Proper Skux]

It's not dumbing down the controls though. They're just different. It's basically the top down equivelent to the difference between an ADS shooter and Unreal Tournament. Plus honestly I'd take interesting controls over more health/damage as a difficulty mechanic. One of those is an actually interesting bit of design, the others just upping numbers.

Also Nation Red is pretty great and you're right. This game isn't just a shooter. It's as much about positioning and resource managemetn as it is twitch plays.

[punchobastardo]

Publicado originalmente por Albino Bunny:

Publicado originalmente por Euphytose:

You're not making any sense. Geometry Wars is a twin stick shooter, that I play with a controller, and it doesn't work like they say this game works. The crosshair is just here for added precision, you can play my way of doing controls with a controller and it's still going to be better.

Because Geometry Wars and Helldivers are different games that only really have similarities in 'are top down and let you shoot things'. Helldivers has a bunch of mechanical stuff like turn speed, the trade off between aiming and sprinting and the risk of friendly fire that makes how it controls important and tied to the controller. If that wasn't the case Arrowhead would've gone straight to always on crosshairs. It's not like this is their first PC game.

The crosshair is in the game as is and allows for plenty of precision. It's just not always on to prevent perfect snap shotting, which would make the game significantly easier.

You don't seem to want to understand, when the game is coming to the PC it has to be working for the PC, otherwise it is a bad port and no one wants a bad port, now can you dig it please?

Also your arguments about precision and advantages are really thin, I have too many friends playing Gauntlet on the most demanding level where half of them use KB+M and half of them use Controllers and I can't tell the difference in precision and speed although Gauntlet is x100 times more action based and twitch demanding than Helldivers. Hoping that PC gamers with a KB+M will be intentionally crippled and not be heard by the developer so that you "feel better" while in the meantime everyone else will be frustrated does not make you look good. We 've already explained to you that you can't emulate a controller with a mouse 1:1.

[Proper Skux]

But... that's not really what I'm saying?

My point is that Helldivers is a different game to Gauntlet (as you pointed out, it's already less twitch based) and that therefore it having a different game to all the other twin sticks isn't automatically a bad thing.

I never said anything about crippling PC or making a bad port. I even find the KBAM controls perfectly fine. If I found them unplayable I'd be right there with you but 'it's not as percise as a totally different game because the controls are different' isn't the game as a bad port and it's hyperbole to keep throwing that out there.

If you want bad port controls the original Dark Souls is still there as a shining effort of a game that gave zero ♥♥♥♥♥ about KBAM. Something Arrowhead clearly did put effort into given they even tried multiple methods of implementing it before settling on this one.

[punchobastardo]

Publicado originalmente por Albino Bunny:

But... that's not really what I'm saying?

My point is that Helldivers is a different game to Gauntlet (as you pointed out, it's already less twitch based) and that therefore it having a different game to all the other twin sticks isn't automatically a bad thing.

I never said anything about crippling PC or making a bad port. I even find the KBAM controls perfectly fine. If I found them unplayable I'd be right there with you but 'it's not as percise as a totally different game because the controls are different' isn't the game as a bad port and it's hyperbole to keep throwing that out there.

If you want bad port controls the original Dark Souls is still there as a shining effort of a game that gave zero ♥♥♥♥♥ about KBAM. Something Arrowhead clearly did put effort into given they even tried multiple methods of implementing it before settling on this one.

Sorry but either you don't want to understand or you are playing the stupid, so I won't continue this discussion anymore as it's really starting to hurt my health now. What's been said it has been said already, very analytical and by many, numerous times, yet you are in a constant denial. Good luck to everybody and thanks Johan and AH for listening.

[Euphytose]

Publicado originalmente por Albino Bunny:

But... that's not really what I'm saying?

My point is that Helldivers is a different game to Gauntlet (as you pointed out, it's already less twitch based) and that therefore it having a different game to all the other twin sticks isn't automatically a bad thing.

I never said anything about crippling PC or making a bad port. I even find the KBAM controls perfectly fine. If I found them unplayable I'd be right there with you but 'it's not as percise as a totally different game because the controls are different' isn't the game as a bad port and it's hyperbole to keep throwing that out there.

If you want bad port controls the original Dark Souls is still there as a shining effort of a game that gave zero ♥♥♥♥♥ about KBAM. Something Arrowhead clearly did put effort into given they even tried multiple methods of implementing it before settling on this one.

You said "you would be too accurate". There's no such thing as "too accurate" unless you use an aimbot. PC gamers favour precision and good input reaction over most things. If you want to dumb yourself down with a controller then by all means, go for it. But there's no reason to make it hard for keyboard & mouse users.

[Icephyre]

That's a terrible excuse to intentionally gimp KB/M controls when that's the main input device for the PC platform and the most popular choice.