what's the point of one handed weapons?

[Kaida]

Besides being able to carry the briefcase, what's the point of taking an smg when you can just take something more powerful weapons? Can you hold something else in your other hand?

[jajomba]

Vamandrac eredeti hozzászólása:

because it is really good against the Illum patrols

Like pretty much any other gun without hard range limit. It lacks stopping power in combat and is being outgunned by most other 2-handed weapons.

You've pointed at the balance issue yourself. The guns that are only good in certain scenario are weak because player has access to more versatile, hard-hitting weaponry. Why bother carrying an SMG that slows enemies down and lets you carry a briefcase, when you can bring 4th trident that is good at killing patrols, all sorts of regular enemies, AND lets you bring another stratagem due to it's infinite ammo. Hell, even among the SMGs there is a superior weapon - Knight SMG.

I'm not telling anyone that those weapons MUST BE USED, i'm often running around with underpowered weapons myself. Just saying that they're much stronger and i see the majority of players using them and it makes me sad. I myself would love to see guns like flamer, camper and punisher being good one day, but that will never happen.

[Reishadowen]

Vamandrac eredeti hozzászólása:

Mousie eredeti hozzászólása:

Everybody does use the same gun. Either they use laser weapons or they use the cannon from the dlc

That is a very generic answer, but it is wrong regardless. I have over 1000 + hours in this game and I have yet to see one "default" weapon that the majority of players use. Everyone has a favorite gun, but that does not mean there is just one that is better than all the rest.

Well, Mr. Expert, I may not have a thousand hours in this game under my belt, but I've played long enough to know that the Trident is the "get stuff done" weapon. No asking about ammo considerations, or if I need to escort something, etc. Just pick it, and go, and it'll do the job; whatever you're fighting, it'll do the job. Maybe the Rail Gun can take out a alot of enemies if you can line it up properly. Maybe you want to have two kinds of weapons accessible when carrying a briefcase. Maybe you can get some sick kill-chains with the lightning gun.

Or, maybe you just want something that reliably kills scouts before they raise the alarm, can kill most non-tank enemies the scouts might summon, and doesn't need a strategem slot dedicated for ammo refills.

Although I sometimes use other guns if I feel like challenging myself, or just messing around, I still know that the Trident is an all-purpose "kill whatever is in my way, no questions asked" gun. In a game where you have to work with up to three other randos, and plans can go so very awry, so very fast, something that reliably kills enemies before they kill me takes precedence. If I know a tough mission is ahead of me (like a retalitory strike), I don't debate: I grab my Trident. In most level 6+ missions I've ever played where things went well all around, at least one other person made the same choice.

So, yeah. I'd have to say that in my experience, the Trident is the most common weapon I see with people who know what they are doing.
(Sickle not as much, but that's probably because it's DLC)

Back to the main subject: I hold the view that the Defender SMG is a terrible weapon, with the Knight SMG only slightly better (I don't have any DLC SMGs, but I would guess they are in the same boat). Every time I have tried using them, I've always switched to my pistol in frustration because it is more reliable; it can kill scouts before they raise the alarm, and it can deal enough damage to kill most medium targets. SMGs fail the first test, and still take at least as many magazines to kill a medium target as the pistol does.

Also, the time spent carrying an object is typically miniscule compared to the total time spent in the mission. Picking a one-handed weapon that is worse than a two-handed weapon just to make the short amount of time you are lugging around a box just isn't worth it in the long run. So the one-handed weapon needs to be able to hold it's own when compared to two-handed weapons is other ways than, "you can use it while carrying a box."

[Vamandrac]

Considering you just admitted to not even using or owning every weapon the game offers, but claim to know what is the best tells me all I need to know about your opinion. Again, everyone has a favorite weapon, but that doesn't automatically qualify that weapon as the "best".

[Solinarius☕]

darisnova eredeti hozzászólása:

Well, Mr. Expert, I may not have a thousand hours in this game under my belt, but I've played long enough to know that the Trident is the "get stuff done" weapon. No asking about ammo considerations, or if I need to escort something, etc. Just pick it, and go, and it'll do the job; whatever you're fighting, it'll do the job. Maybe the Rail Gun can take out a alot of enemies if you can line it up properly. Maybe you want to have two kinds of weapons accessible when carrying a briefcase. Maybe you can get some sick kill-chains with the lightning gun.

The Trident is like a P2W weapon, for free! It breaks the balance of assault weaponry. Despite having the same range rating as the SMGs, it can hit well beyond scout detection range. You don't even have to fully upgrade it for it to fiercely compete with the rest of the helldiver arsenal. I think this is OK, though, since it was basically a gift from Arrowhead. Anyways, the Trident is an assault weapon, while the Rail Gun is a support weapon which does its job every bit as well as the Trident. The reason you see the Trident so much is because it's simply the best weapon for newbies to fully upgrade. They get used to the omniversatiliy it provides, and when they try other weapons, they start believing everything else sucks, or perhaps they don't take the time to understand other weapons (points in the early levels are precious, after all). Does this sound familiar?

darisnova eredeti hozzászólása:

Back to the main subject: I hold the view that the Defender SMG is a terrible weapon, with the Knight SMG only slightly better (I don't have any DLC SMGs, but I would guess they are in the same boat). Every time I have tried using them, I've always switched to my pistol in frustration because it is more reliable; it can kill scouts before they raise the alarm, and it can deal enough damage to kill most medium targets. SMGs fail the first test, and still take at least as many magazines to kill a medium target as the pistol does.

Hitting the absolute center of a target is vital for doing significant damage. The Trident makes this very easy since all you have to do is spray to win. WIth most other weapons, you have to make accurate, "controlled bursts" () to achieve the same effect. Also, Bugs waggle around when you shoot them. This is why pulse lasers are so effective against them. I haven't really tested the Defender that much, but I know the Knight is a solid SMG. If you are out of range, then get closer or use line of sight to your advantage! The extra mobility SMGs provide is a useful gimmick. Also, if you are using a SMG, you shouldn't take point. Executing your job/role is what squad tactics is all about. Four players equipped with Tridents, competing for the point position and kills is silly and inefficient (...if fun at times).

darisnova eredeti hozzászólása:

Also, the time spent carrying an object is typically miniscule compared to the total time spent in the mission. Picking a one-handed weapon that is worse than a two-handed weapon just to make the short amount of time you are lugging around a box just isn't worth it in the long run. So the one-handed weapon needs to be able to hold it's own when compared to two-handed weapons is other ways than, "you can use it while carrying a box."

Again, squad tactics. You don't need four players with assault weapons. Haven't you ever noticed that scouts have a shorter detection range if they target someone with a SMG? It's a little different with the Illuminate, but after all, each race has their own quirks which helldiver loadouts have varying effectiveness against.

[Insano-Man]

The biggest problem submachine guns have is that they're all directly competing with the pistol in one way or another. The pistol doesn't require a slot, reloads nigh-instanteously, and always gets a full refill from ammo drops. At the same time, it's capable of startlingly effective (if seriously ammo-inefficient) damage dumps at close range and has a slight range advantage on SMGs.

You can see this at work best with the Ninja subgun in the Commando pack. The Ninja doesn't have the mini-stun that other SMGs have and still suffers from all of the problems inherent to the class. I've only ever used the Ninja to gimp myself in low-level missions alongside new players - and even those situations have highlighted just how abysmal the weapon's performance is.

For me, mini-stun is the highlight of SMGs and their only real benefit. They offer something most other weapons don't; a cheap, reliable way to keep specific high-value targets locked down for other players to deal with. Against cyborg butchers, bug brood commanders, and Illuminate illusionists/councilors, the mini-stun can be a life-saver. Against everything else, you'd be better off picking something with better armor penetration, damage, and overall versatility.

[Reishadowen]

Vamandrac eredeti hozzászólása:

Considering you just admitted to not even using or owning every weapon the game offers, but claim to know what is the best tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

...seriously? My views on weapons is invalid if I haven't bought every last DLC pack in the game?

Solinarius eredeti hozzászólása:

The reason you see the Trident so much is because it's simply the best weapon for newbies to fully upgrade. They get used to the omniversatiliy it provides, and when they try other weapons, they start believing everything else sucks, or perhaps they don't take the time to understand other weapons (points in the early levels are precious, after all). Does this sound familiar?

Pretty familiar. When you have a weapon that is great all-around, there doesn't feel like much incentive to pick something might be a little better in a certain situation, but is harder to use properly. Doubly so if the weapon you are using requires someone else to know how to act to compliment you. Sad to say, I don't see this kind of teamwork (or even communication) very often in my multi-player games. =(

I only started exploring weapons like the Constitution, Punisher, and Double Freedom because I got bored with the Trident, and started looking for something else. With any other weapon, I might switch to another because I want a better advantage for a situation. With the Trident, I might switch to another because I want a better challenge for a situation.

Solinarius eredeti hozzászólása:

Haven't you ever noticed that scouts have a shorter detection range if they target someone with a SMG?

o.0
Uh, no. I haven't.
...
Is that actually a thing? Is it the same for shotguns?

[AgentFlea]

SMG should allow for even faster movement speed

[Kaida]

Aegis eredeti hozzászólása:

SMG should allow for even faster movement speed

I was thinking about this too. Currently it's just no different from the pistol at all except for when you aim down sights, but that small increase in speed isn't really worth much of anything because the weapon has very little stopping power.

[alucard.gaming@*****software.com]

Mousie eredeti hozzászólása:

Aegis eredeti hozzászólása:

SMG should allow for even faster movement speed

I was thinking about this too. Currently it's just no different from the pistol at all except for when you aim down sights, but that small increase in speed isn't really worth much of anything because the weapon has very little stopping power.

SMGs are less about stopping threats and more about safely walking away from them if they're dependent on melee. Theyre great for bugs for this reason.

[Xilia]

Versatility is the main point, also tanto does rek dem aliens. Its a great weapon for rush solo in my opinion.

[QuaestComm]

Not all one-handed weapons lack stopping power and range - the DBS-2 "Double Freedom" shotgun is quite lethal at point-blank range, but can still land pellets at extreme range to kill Scouts and Vanguards (technically, that weapon starts as a two-handed weapon, then gets converted to a one-handed weapon once a certain upgrade is purchased). This lethality, though, is necessary to offset its two-shell magazine.

[TitanShadow12]

I wouldn't take an SMG solo, but it's nice when you're diving with a group and the guy with the 1h weapon picks up the briefcase and doesn't need to drop it to contribute to fights. We can just keep moving while he ministuns the little guys.

[Reishadowen]

GazingPete eredeti hozzászólása:

Or you bring pump action shotgun against illuminates and something to destroy tripods and high councilors ; easier than bringing trident, depending on the situation - If no one else on the team can kill anything best to bring justice.

Yeah.......gonna have to disagree with you on that first part. Although the Punisher and Breaker are stronger per shot, but the constant reloading will allow shields to regen, and councilors to lob confusion orbs. Trident offers a compromise that allows it to keep firing, and keep good damage output.

Justice is a really tough and reliable weapon though. Good piercing, and good against bugs. Nice thing to bring when I have a spare stratagem slot for ammo. =)

GazingPete eredeti hozzászólása:

I feel like I should be asking if you do a lot of Helldives, because I hardly ever bring trident anymore. There are too many level 12 enemies that will just burn out trident if you try it on them.

Yes I do quite a few Helldives, and they usually go one of two ways for me.
1: smooth, because everyone knows what they are doing, does a good job of killing patrols, stake out a direction of the group/screen and defend from that angle, have mechs/HAVs/launchers which kill tanks, and don't take ages to kill them when they come on screen, and generally don't screw around and do stupid sh*t like what I'm about to go into.
2: A horrible shambling mess because at least one teammate does five or more of the following:
-Does not wait for other people to get their stuff;
-Throw a resupply beacon on top of someone else's tank or mech beacon;
-Constantly move in the opposite direction of the group while spamming "Move!" tacticom;
-Refuse to listen to anything on mic chat or have mic chat muted altogether;
-Jump around the screen in circles with a jetpack while carelessly lobbing airstrikes;
-Immediately throw massive splash damage airstrikes at the first tank which comes on screen instead of letting the guy with a dedicated rocket launcher or anti tank vehicle do his fricken job;
-Kill previously mentioned guy with anti-tank gun/mech using previously mentioned airstrike while leaving the enemy tank untouched;
-Immediately ready a shredder beacon as soon as the group reaches a stationary "defend" objective and hold it there for ten seconds instead of helping, then claim "it was an accident";
-Throw the revive beacon into the middle of a pack of grotesque and 3 warlords as opposed to somewhere safe;
-Throw the revive beacon in the direction of the enemies you just ran away from, and are still trying to outrun;
-Throw the revive beacon into a f*cking minefield, or wall of fire;
-Throw the revive beacon off a f*cking cliff;
-Sound surprised and victimized when a player complains at you for doing any of the previous items;
-Leave freshly revived players on their own instead of trying to keep their spawn point clear of threats, or help get their items back;
-Constantly tap the melee button while you run around the map, occasionally hitting, wounding, or killing other players in the process;
-Refuse to stop doing the above item after killing two players in a row, and they ask you to stop;
-Refuse to defend or utilize any turrets or vehicles other players drop down for the group;
-Constantly throw airstrikes, missile barrages, minefields, and walls of f*cking fire directly on top of turrets and vehicles summoned by other players;
-Refuse to stop doing the above item after being asked several times by other players to stop;
-Throw down a Shredder missile on entire f*cking retaliatory strike arena to kill a single f*cking tank;
-Throw down a Shredder missile before the extract shuttle fully lands, as if there is no way that could possibly backfire;
-Drop and detonate NUX Hellbombs when you are next to Rocket Launchpads and Geological Survery drills;
-Refuse to pick up an EAT-17 and instead keep spraying a Cyborg IFV with the Toxic spray gun for three straight minutes;
-Refuse to run away with other players from a giant Bug Behemoth, and instead try to run around and poke it in the butt with your bayonet;
-Refuse to come closer to your teammates while they are trapped behind a rock and the screen edge, and are getting killed by a Thresher;
-Refuse to come closer to the edge of a screen, so fellow players can find & kill an off-screen Thresher or Obelisk;
-Continue to act like a player getting trapped behind an Obelisk wall is solely their fault, and solely their problem;
- And generally refuse any kind of coordination or attempt at planning by any other player at all costs.

So to answer your question, yes, I do a number of Helldives.

I'm actually at the point where I'm starting to wonder why I still play this game... =/

Back on topic, I disagree that the Trident is not enough to take on level 12 enemies. I don't really have trouble with taking it into level 12 missions (as opposed to other primary weapons). My biggest problem in a Helldive (besides the grueling list of points above) is when the game throws more tanks at my team than we can handle. I actually have more trouble when I don't pack the Trident, because I have to worry about conserving ammo, and shooting straight on. I don't pick support weapons for a primary unless I really trust my party, and all four of us start the map together, and we have an explicitly stated plan of action beforehand.

EDIT: Edited due to quote tag failure.

[WeasleFire]

Here's what you do, bring an EAT-17, fire it off next to a blackbox and immediately pick up the box after you fire it. It'll glitch and automatically swap to your primary. So now you can carry objectives with a primary gun.

[Solinarius☕]

WeasleFire eredeti hozzászólása:

Here's what you do, bring an EAT-17, fire it off next to a blackbox and immediately pick up the box after you fire it. It'll glitch and automatically swap to your primary. So now you can carry objectives with a primary gun.

So -that's- how Rambo does it...