Please make ironsights viable

[Crimzon]

It's so hard to see anything at any reasonable distance. And you have higher recoil than scopes. Design makes me want to play scoped anything over 2nd medic, but 2nd medic is more useful for (R)AAS/Invasion attack.

I have no problem engaging targets 300+ meters away with ironsights in Rising Storm 2 or Arma 3. The player perspective and lack of zoom-in on hold breath makes it incredibly hard to kill anything past 100m. Scopes can be better at range, but ironsights should have a purpose since you force certain kits to use them. And the ICO seems to make people use ironsights because the PIP scopes feel like ass.


What makes me not want to play this game is being one tapped by someone I cannot effectively engage whatsoever because they have a scope and I don't. Maybe suppression can alleviate that, but I enjoy being able to engage at a realistic distance and not have effectively a shotgun(100m effective range).

Anecdotally, my friend says on his 4k monitor he can engage people out to 300m. The most I can do is 200m at 1080p 200% res scale and max AA, but that's really hard too with the higher recoil.

The reason for the reduced recoil on acogs is that the increased magnification makes it hard to control the recoil. Good. That's the downside of them. You shouldn't be strong at all ranges. Instead, ironsights are nerfed on multiple levels.

[Flapples]

its not trying to be like rising storm 2 or arma 3, they are trying to realize the original reason they started to make the game and make it like project reality.
which means making it as realistic as they can, id like to see you hit a 300m shot with iron sights in real life.

[M4Operator101]

Originally posted by Flapples:

its not trying to be like rising storm 2 or arma 3, they are trying to realize the original reason they started to make the game and make it like project reality.
which means making it as realistic as they can, id like to see you hit a 300m shot with iron sights in real life.

300m with iron sights is not that much, but you just can't even see them moving in the vegetation anymore, this game overdoes the distance part, 100 m with iron sights feels like you try to land a sniper shot from 3 km away,

[Coucheese]

The combat overhaul is intended to deal with iron sights being under performing. Just wait until that comes out or play one of the test branches when it's available.

[Crimzon]

Originally posted by Flapples:

its not trying to be like rising storm 2 or arma 3, they are trying to realize the original reason they started to make the game and make it like project reality.
which means making it as realistic as they can, id like to see you hit a 300m shot with iron sights in real life.

Marines can literally hit targets 500m away with M16A2 irons.
Realistically, scopes don't decrease recoil by ~30% irl.
Realistically, you can see people 300m away without them being a single pixel.

even if it wasn't realistic: why have ironsights if people will actively avoid playing better teamplay roles because of how awful the ironsights are?

[Radegast]

In real life you have a great problem to see targets (not moving) on +300m.

Wait for ICO, everybody will switch to iron sights /colimators for close encounters.

I loved PR, where you could switch sights for the role. No penalisation.

[orlathebeast]

Originally posted by Flapples:

its not trying to be like rising storm 2 or arma 3, they are trying to realize the original reason they started to make the game and make it like project reality.
which means making it as realistic as they can, id like to see you hit a 300m shot with iron sights in real life.

300 meters with irons is quite easy. hitting up to 500 it's not hard... if you know the range and you can see the target. a big IF.

scopes are really usefull because they allow the user to better see the target. once you know where the target is, it's not hard to hit it with irons, but a magnified scope will help a lot with the spotting part.

the problem with irons ATM is that they are basically downgrades from any type of scope, and also that the recoil of many guns is totally busted. the rework is anyway on the right track. now hitting a target at 300 meters with irions will be hard, but at least you won't get lasered by anybody with a scope in 0,2 seconds. i think it's a decent trade.

[kosst]

I absolutely agree that scopes made a little bit cheating. I want to mention not recoil, but sway.
As I understand, recoil is behavior after the shoot. And sway is movement of a scope before shooting.
And I expect that sway itself must be the same for iron sight and scope. So for example with 3x scope sway should be felt 3 times more powerful due to zoom effect. But in the game (both current version and ICO) this effect works incorrectly. Looks like my hands become more stable with scope.
I think only increasing sway with scopes can balance the game dramatically. And it will increase realism IMHO.

[Flapples]

Originally posted by Crimzon:

Originally posted by Flapples:

its not trying to be like rising storm 2 or arma 3, they are trying to realize the original reason they started to make the game and make it like project reality.
which means making it as realistic as they can, id like to see you hit a 300m shot with iron sights in real life.

Marines can literally hit targets 500m away with M16A2 irons.
Realistically, scopes don't decrease recoil by ~30% irl.
Realistically, you can see people 300m away without them being a single pixel.

even if it wasn't realistic: why have ironsights if people will actively avoid playing better teamplay roles because of how awful the ironsights are?

Are these super soldier Marines that can shoot moving targets half a kilometer with irons in the room with us right now?

[fyb]

owi knows this, this is why they equip those kits with extra grenades and binoculars. for balance you shouldn't be able to win against an acog with ironsights at 300m when skill is equal level.

[Condasoft]

Originally posted by Crimzon:

It's so hard to see anything at any reasonable distance. And you have higher recoil than scopes. Design makes me want to play scoped anything over 2nd medic, but 2nd medic is more useful for (R)AAS/Invasion attack.

I have no problem engaging targets 300+ meters away with ironsights in Rising Storm 2 or Arma 3. The player perspective and lack of zoom-in on hold breath makes it incredibly hard to kill anything past 100m. Scopes can be better at range, but ironsights should have a purpose since you force certain kits to use them. And the ICO seems to make people use ironsights because the PIP scopes feel like ass.


What makes me not want to play this game is being one tapped by someone I cannot effectively engage whatsoever because they have a scope and I don't. Maybe suppression can alleviate that, but I enjoy being able to engage at a realistic distance and not have effectively a shotgun(100m effective range).

Anecdotally, my friend says on his 4k monitor he can engage people out to 300m. The most I can do is 200m at 1080p 200% res scale and max AA, but that's really hard too with the higher recoil.

The reason for the reduced recoil on acogs is that the increased magnification makes it hard to control the recoil. Good. That's the downside of them. You shouldn't be strong at all ranges. Instead, ironsights are nerfed on multiple levels.

The only real balance would be to enforce a depth of field rule on every client.

[Crimzon]

Originally posted by Flapples:

Originally posted by Crimzon:

Marines can literally hit targets 500m away with M16A2 irons.
Realistically, scopes don't decrease recoil by ~30% irl.
Realistically, you can see people 300m away without them being a single pixel.

even if it wasn't realistic: why have ironsights if people will actively avoid playing better teamplay roles because of how awful the ironsights are?

Are these super soldier Marines that can shoot moving targets half a kilometer with irons in the room with us right now?

USMC Rifle qual is 500m with a m16a2. You could always use google to find out more if you're interested

[Flapples]

Originally posted by Crimzon:

Originally posted by Flapples:

Are these super soldier Marines that can shoot moving targets half a kilometer with irons in the room with us right now?

USMC Rifle qual is 500m with a m16a2. You could always use google to find out more if you're interested

watched a video of a guy at a 500m range with m4 irons and it didnt seem viable at all even with non moving targets. guy took like 5 seconds in between every shot and still only hit the target like 20% of the time.

Pretty sure irons are for close to mid-range combat and or target supression, not long range precision fire...

[Crimzon]

Originally posted by Flapples:

Originally posted by Crimzon:

USMC Rifle qual is 500m with a m16a2. You could always use google to find out more if you're interested

watched a video of a guy at a 500m range with m4 irons and it didnt seem viable at all even with non moving targets. guy took like 5 seconds in between every shot and still only hit the target like 20% of the time.

Pretty sure irons are for close to mid-range combat and or target supression, not long range precision fire...

Strawman. I didn't say Irons are for long-range precision fire. It's possible to shoot at targets at that distance. I can't even see a target 300m away in squad

[Radegast]

Discussion about game or real life?

In my military service i belonged to superior shooters in the battalion, but not instructor.
I loved ironsights, because you can train musclememmory for initiative aiming and shooting. It is supperior in urban / CQB. But it doesn't forgive mistakes, colimators do...., but using colimator you are loosing overwiev ability for battlefield survelience, yet much much more faster aiming.

Every grunt is able to hit target by colimator, but it doesn't mean he can be effective (weapon handling).

Not-moving targets are a big problem on +300m not to mention that lot of people over 30 years start having problems with the eyes lenses.

Shooting on +600 is expertise for marksman and LMGs, because of the rules of physics.

My army doesnt have magnifying optics like ACOG on rifles, only LMGs and i tell you, it takes its damned time to adjust eye and then, covering field is problem because you instantly lose overwiev.