These new mortars are breaking the game...

[bongfest]

These new mortars are breaking the game.... At least implement a tube cool down period. You cant fire like that in real life anyways. You'd be warping the tubes and cooking rounds.

Lost enough players due to ICO (Im not against ICO btw), dont lose more to a broken arty spam system. That would just be dumb.

[Bakunin]

They just through new weopons into the game without considering the consequences.
OWI is a clown car. By now I think they are only interested in increased revenue. They may even troll their own player base on purpose.

Joke aside: Since Merlin left as CIO and that mobile games guy took over the helm and also Tencend in the picture there is no hope left. All you immersion larpers out there will be disappointed even more. The idea that OWI is going back to it's Project Reality roots is nothing but a PR mirage. Keep swollowing their Public Relations nonses, but the fact is there: There is no visionary that is leading the project any longer. They don't care about the game. Its the cooperate money people that are in charge. So no need for you ICO lovers to hate on us ICO refusers.

[MacDuh]

I only got to play with these mortar vehicles once. IMHO it was too much.

Should it be removed? Nah, I don't think so. If anything I think the more content we have the better the game is. More variety.

I think nerf would do justice to the asset.

Bursts are no go for sure it is too much. Combined with its mobility and basically pinpoint accuracy it makes the asset way too powerful. One round reload just like SPG is okay I think.

Max distance shouldn't be more than 500m.

And there shouldn't be more than 15 rounds on board.

[Saxtorph]

Originally posted by MacDuh:

Bursts are no go for sure it is too much. Combined with its mobility and basically pinpoint accuracy it makes the asset way too powerful. One round reload just like SPG is okay I think.

Max distance shouldn't be more than 500m.

And there shouldn't be more than 15 rounds on board.

Artificial nerfs are dumb and lead to dumb gameplay. The better way to deal with mortar trucks being OP is to implement their counters, such as counter-battery radars, CRAM systems, and more spotting drones. OWI has a bad habit of introducing a new feature without also introducing its real world counter, and then nerfing it to make it fit with the game. The problem with this approach is that you end up with every weapon being significantly less effective than in reality, which makes it feel like an arcade game. Realistic tactics can only be viable if weapons have realistic capabilities. If heavy weapons are too weak compared to small arms then run&gun lemming tactics will dominate, whether with ICO or not. Do you know what would end run&gun in Squad? Being able to drop a sustained artillery barrage on the beeline between the enemy FOB and the nearest flag. Squad needs more artillery and it needs more powerful artillery, but it also needs counter-artillery systems.

[Pvt.Donger]

changed the zeroing on our official guns yet you still support these clowns...

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by MacDuh:

I only got to play with these mortar vehicles once. IMHO it was too much.

Should it be removed? Nah, I don't think so. If anything I think the more content we have the better the game is. More variety.

I think nerf would do justice to the asset.

Bursts are no go for sure it is too much. Combined with its mobility and basically pinpoint accuracy it makes the asset way too powerful. One round reload just like SPG is okay I think.

Max distance shouldn't be more than 500m.

And there shouldn't be more than 15 rounds on board.

slower rate of fire would be reasonable and more realistic, but range 500 m ? thats almost rl min range for those..., they can reachout to 8000 meters i think, but i agree that accuarcy should suffer a bit for longer range shots, currently there is no wind deviation and nothing.

Mortars are firing too fast and are too accurate, thats it - can be easily adjusted.

[killertowfoo]

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

Squad needs more artillery and it needs more powerful artillery, but it also needs counter-artillery systems.

Exactly. Having self-propelled artillery opens the door for actual combined arms in Squad.

Effective use of artillery involves a 'kill chain'. Break any step in your opponent's kill chain and you prevent your own demise.

The best counter is killing the spotter. Second best is having a scout go find and kill the artillery. Third best is be on the move.

To be OP/game-breaking requires that there not be an existing viable counter in-game. Some players had the exact same reaction when MATV-TOWs and BRDM-Konkurs were being talked about and introduced, but they are easily countered glass cannons.

If you're getting wrecked by mortars it means you're spotted, pinned down, and the enemy team is communicating/coordinated. Meaning your team is just being outplayed.

[Pzk. Ruby]

Originally posted by killertowfoo:

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

Squad needs more artillery and it needs more powerful artillery, but it also needs counter-artillery systems.

Exactly. Having self-propelled artillery opens the door for actual combined arms in Squad.

Effective use of artillery involves a 'kill chain'. Break any step in your opponent's kill chain and you prevent your own demise.

The best counter is killing the spotter. Second best is having a scout go find and kill the artillery. Third best is be on the move.

To be OP/game-breaking requires that there not be an existing viable counter in-game. Some players had the exact same reaction when MATV-TOWs and BRDM-Konkurs were being talked about and introduced, but they are easily countered glass cannons.

If you're getting wrecked by mortars it means you're spotted, pinned down, and the enemy team is communicating/coordinated. Meaning your team is just being outplayed.

The problem with that is HABs. IRL people aren't bound to fixed spawning locations, but in Squad all a team has to do is locate the hab (or radio) and mortar it into submission. Sure sometimes you can hide the hab in cover, but even then mortars prevent anyone from leaving it. You could argue for rallies, but they're easily burned and operating solely off rallies is rarely viable, especially on the defense where you most often receive mortars.

Ordinary mortars aren't such a problem because they have clear limitations. They have limited range and require both logistics for setup and regular logistical upkeep to run. They're easy to locate if you try on account of the sound they make together with their range, along with the usually visible resupply runs. Once located they are easy to destroy since they are necessarily exposed, so while they're powerful they require decent investment and can be reasonably countered.

However the new mobile mortar bypasses all these limitations. The massive range means it can fire from distances where it cannot be easily located, and it does not require logistical investment to set up. The extra range also means it can sit next to a resupply location far from the front, meaning easier and safer resupplies which are also less likely to be spotted. Furthermore even if you locate it, it cannot be easily destroyed by counterbattery or infantry, since it is armored and will require either AT or allied vehicles to journey all the way out to it to destroy it. And its mobile so it may not even be there by the time the AT/vehicles arrive, assuming they're even able to get far enough behind the enemy's line to reach it.

[NikTheGreek]

I agree, their effectiveness needs to be toned down: less ammo,less range, cool down for the tube,more deviation,less shells per salvo in the right proportions so it keeps its reason of existence and usefulness.

[Saxtorph]

Originally posted by Pzk. Ruby:

The problem with that is HABs. IRL people aren't bound to fixed spawning locations, but in Squad all a team has to do is locate the hab (or radio) and mortar it into submission. Sure sometimes you can hide the hab in cover, but even then mortars prevent anyone from leaving it. You could argue for rallies, but they're easily burned and operating solely off rallies is rarely viable, especially on the defense where you most often receive mortars.

Why not just buff the rally then? Rallies promote better intra-squad teamwork than FOBs and should be the default spawn choice IMO.

Originally posted by Pzk. Ruby:

Ordinary mortars aren't such a problem because they have clear limitations. They have limited range and require both logistics for setup and regular logistical upkeep to run. They're easy to locate if you try on account of the sound they make together with their range, along with the usually visible resupply runs. Once located they are easy to destroy since they are necessarily exposed, so while they're powerful they require decent investment and can be reasonably countered.

However the new mobile mortar bypasses all these limitations. The massive range means it can fire from distances where it cannot be easily located, and it does not require logistical investment to set up. The extra range also means it can sit next to a resupply location far from the front, meaning easier and safer resupplies which are also less likely to be spotted. Furthermore even if you locate it, it cannot be easily destroyed by counterbattery or infantry, since it is armored and will require either AT or allied vehicles to journey all the way out to it to destroy it. And its mobile so it may not even be there by the time the AT/vehicles arrive, assuming they're even able to get far enough behind the enemy's line to reach it.

It's true that there is no counter for a mortar vehicle right now, but there are two ways to solve this problem. Either you can artificially nerf it like they did with the regular mortars, or you can create new systems that hard counter mortars, such as more scouting drones, an off-map MLRS strike for the commander, or attack helicopters. The second option is much better than the first.

[dongobongo]

Originally posted by killertowfoo:

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

Squad needs more artillery and it needs more powerful artillery, but it also needs counter-artillery systems.

Exactly. Having self-propelled artillery opens the door for actual combined arms in Squad.

Effective use of artillery involves a 'kill chain'. Break any step in your opponent's kill chain and you prevent your own demise.

The best counter is killing the spotter. Second best is having a scout go find and kill the artillery. Third best is be on the move.

To be OP/game-breaking requires that there not be an existing viable counter in-game. Some players had the exact same reaction when MATV-TOWs and BRDM-Konkurs were being talked about and introduced, but they are easily countered glass cannons.

If you're getting wrecked by mortars it means you're spotted, pinned down, and the enemy team is communicating/coordinated. Meaning your team is just being outplayed.

Lmao killing the spotter ahahhahaha, tf are you talking about, you dont need spotters in this game and you dont need it since you have squadcalc and magic map inside your game.
The only way to stop it - block the enemy main, which will cost you 1-2 full squads + tank. On some layers, with wide open fields this mortar fire become a nonsense, since there is no way to hide from it, your FOB, HAB and inf will be vanished in 2 rounds.
There was no reason to give more indirect fire to any faction, but now how you gonna balance this snowball? FPV drones? Nope, I bet not gonna happen and u just need to get a 1 inch from main base safe zone just to start your fire, also some people just use main base safe zones as a barrier. Reduce the firerate? Still too OP even, It just dumb gamedev decision to give more weapons, while whole gameplay and balance has TONS of issues.

[MacDuh]

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

Artificial nerfs are dumb and lead to dumb gameplay.

Almost every other aspect of the game is "artificially nerfed" or simplified, because it is still a game. It could be immersive, but it doesn't mean that it has to be as complicated as real life.

For example.
1) Projectile drop is over exaggerated in Squad due to reduced scale of virtual battles.

2) Wobbly ICO hands are "artificial nerf" too. It kinda represents fatigue and uneven preparedness of personnel.

3) Respawns. In real life you die once.

And etc. All this "nerfs" are meant to work as game conventions, or rules if you want. It is an attempt on balancing immersion and fun.

Realism isn't fun. I don't want to participate in a real war and I don't think that I would have fun there.

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

The better way to deal with mortar trucks being OP is to implement their counters, such as counter-battery radars, CRAM systems, and more spotting drones. OWI has a bad habit of introducing a new feature without also introducing its real world counter, and then nerfing it to make it fit with the game. The problem with this approach is that you end up with every weapon being significantly less effective than in reality, which makes it feel like an arcade game. Realistic tactics can only be viable if weapons have realistic capabilities.

Way too complicated. Sometimes 50 people isn't enough for both defense and offense and you want to take up some of those to do radar stuff?

Come on. Squack isn't ArmA. It is somewhere in between CoD and ArmA. All the "Raptor this is Steel Rain" stuff doesn't belong to Squack.

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

If heavy weapons are too weak compared to small arms then run&gun lemming tactics will dominate, whether with ICO or not. Do you know what would end run&gun in Squad? Being able to drop a sustained artillery barrage on the beeline between the enemy FOB and the nearest flag. Squad needs more artillery and it needs more powerful artillery, but it also needs counter-artillery systems.

Nah. It is too much. The scale of Squack maps is far below of "full artillery barrage" grade. It is mostly platoon scale "combined arms" fights. What we have right now is about right for that kind of "interactions".

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by MacDuh:

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

Artificial nerfs are dumb and lead to dumb gameplay.

Almost every other aspect of the game is "artificially nerfed" or simplified, because it is still a game. It could be immersive, but it doesn't mean that it has to be as complicated as real life.

For example.
1) Projectile drop is over exaggerated in Squad due to reduced scale of virtual battles.

2) Wobbly ICO hands are "artificial nerf" too. It kinda represents fatigue and uneven preparedness of personnel.

3) Respawns. In real life you die once.

And etc. All this "nerfs" are meant to work as game conventions, or rules if you want. It is an attempt on balancing immersion and fun.

Realism isn't fun. I don't want to participate in a real war and I don't think that I would have fun there.

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

The better way to deal with mortar trucks being OP is to implement their counters, such as counter-battery radars, CRAM systems, and more spotting drones. OWI has a bad habit of introducing a new feature without also introducing its real world counter, and then nerfing it to make it fit with the game. The problem with this approach is that you end up with every weapon being significantly less effective than in reality, which makes it feel like an arcade game. Realistic tactics can only be viable if weapons have realistic capabilities.

Way too complicated. Sometimes 50 people isn't enough for both defense and offense and you want to take up some of those to do radar stuff?

Come on. Squack isn't ArmA. It is somewhere in between CoD and ArmA. All the "Raptor this is Steel Rain" stuff doesn't belong to Squack.

Originally posted by Saxtorph:

If heavy weapons are too weak compared to small arms then run&gun lemming tactics will dominate, whether with ICO or not. Do you know what would end run&gun in Squad? Being able to drop a sustained artillery barrage on the beeline between the enemy FOB and the nearest flag. Squad needs more artillery and it needs more powerful artillery, but it also needs counter-artillery systems.

Nah. It is too much. The scale of Squack maps is far below of "full artillery barrage" grade. It is mostly platoon scale "combined arms" fights. What we have right now is about right for that kind of "interactions".

agreed, still mortars are currently too accurate and have too high ROF. This would be easy to fix i suppose. We definetely don't need more indirect fire in Squad, its not the most engaging kind of gameplay. Centerpiece is supposed to be the Infantry Squad, not a full combined arms game, there are already borderline too many vehicles. As you said the scale is too small for that.

There should also be a max of one tank per team for all layers, except maybe Talil. Make it even so ONLY the armored teams have MBT's at all, scratch them from all others. Currently almost every team gets one MBT, the armored teams get two...

[crusader1248]

Originally posted by bongfest:

These new mortars are breaking the game.... At least implement a tube cool down period. You cant fire like that in real life anyways. You'd be warping the tubes and cooking rounds.

Lost enough players due to ICO (Im not against ICO btw), dont lose more to a broken arty spam system. That would just be dumb.

mortars are powerful and they should be

[crusader1248]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

Originally posted by MacDuh:

Almost every other aspect of the game is "artificially nerfed" or simplified, because it is still a game. It could be immersive, but it doesn't mean that it has to be as complicated as real life.

For example.
1) Projectile drop is over exaggerated in Squad due to reduced scale of virtual battles.

2) Wobbly ICO hands are "artificial nerf" too. It kinda represents fatigue and uneven preparedness of personnel.

3) Respawns. In real life you die once.

And etc. All this "nerfs" are meant to work as game conventions, or rules if you want. It is an attempt on balancing immersion and fun.

Realism isn't fun. I don't want to participate in a real war and I don't think that I would have fun there.



Way too complicated. Sometimes 50 people isn't enough for both defense and offense and you want to take up some of those to do radar stuff?

Come on. Squack isn't ArmA. It is somewhere in between CoD and ArmA. All the "Raptor this is Steel Rain" stuff doesn't belong to Squack.



Nah. It is too much. The scale of Squack maps is far below of "full artillery barrage" grade. It is mostly platoon scale "combined arms" fights. What we have right now is about right for that kind of "interactions".

agreed, still mortars are currently too accurate and have too high ROF. This would be easy to fix i suppose. We definetely don't need more indirect fire in Squad, its not the most engaging kind of gameplay. Centerpiece is supposed to be the Infantry Squad, not a full combined arms game, there are already borderline too many vehicles. As you said the scale is too small for that.

There should also be a max of one tank per team for all layers, except maybe Talil. Make it even so ONLY the armored teams have MBT's at all, scratch them from all others. Currently almost every team gets one MBT, the armored teams get two...

whats we need is more CoD guns fight and minecraft camping woho

[bakepotatou]

love seeing serious servers bleed out by the day