Why does the turkish army have equipment from the modern era

[John Cena]

and we have factions like the brits using ♥♥♥♥ from the 90s

[Aegmar]

I guess because the Brits have been added in Alpha 11 (May 2018). Not sure if SUSAT scopes have been still in service back then, or only with Territorial units.

Some old stuff the British army uses is just what they actually use, like the horrible Warrior IFV with unstabilzed Turret. They even added the Warrior CTAS Turret later in Squad, despite its NOT being used in reality and was scratched completely in Prototype stage of development.

British Army will use Boxer instead in the future, but right now they still have the old Warriors.

I guess the Brits don't really expect to have a land war anytime soon and focus more on Infantry equipment, Navy and Airforce. The Royal Navy has always been the senior service in the UK btw, unlike most other countries.

[John Cena]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

I guess because the Brits have been added in Alpha 11 (May 2018). Not sure if SUSAT scopes have been still in service back then, or only with Territorial units.

Some old stuff the British army uses is just what they actually use, like the horrible Warrior IFV with unstabilzed Turret. They even added the Warrior CTAS Turret later despite its NOT being used and was scratched completely in Prototype stage of development.

British Army will use Boxer instead in the future, but right now they still have the old Warriors.

i thought the timeline for squad was in 2000-2010. it makes sense for the brits to have the equipment they have in game. turkey has much more recent stuff, most of which was either being phased in during that time period or being phased in currently

[killertowfoo]

Originally posted by Luke Skywalker:

i thought the timeline for squad was in 2000-2010. it makes sense for the brits to have the equipment they have in game. turkey has much more recent stuff, most of which was either being phased in during that time period or being phased in currently

US Army equipment in Squad is closer to 2010-2020. (M17, OCP)

It's easier to make the argument that the ingame armies are all in the present, but using equipment from different periods of the past due to unknown reasons. This is entirely realistic/authentic as demonstrated in Ukraine with the Russians using T-72s and mosin nagants. Often even US national guard and reservist units will hold onto some old equipment before they are fielded upgrades.

Modernization occurs over time and often some units will carry old equipment for decades. Also, loss of equipment in war can require opening old weapons stockpiles.

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by Luke Skywalker:

i thought the timeline for squad was in 2000-2010.

Isn't this something the community kinda made up ? Did OWI actually say anything about that at some point, im honestly not sure.

But yeah, if thats the baseline Turkey should use G3 instead, but then they would have the same gun as another faction already ingame...

[John Cena]

Originally posted by killertowfoo:

Originally posted by Luke Skywalker:

i thought the timeline for squad was in 2000-2010. it makes sense for the brits to have the equipment they have in game. turkey has much more recent stuff, most of which was either being phased in during that time period or being phased in currently

US Army equipment in Squad is closer to 2010-2020. (M17, OCP)

It's easier to make the argument that the ingame armies are all in the present, but using equipment from different periods of the past due to unknown reasons. This is entirely realistic/authentic as demonstrated in Ukraine with the Russians using T-72s and mosin nagants. Often even US national guard and reservist units will hold onto some old equipment before they are fielded upgrades.

Modernization occurs over time and often some units will carry old equipment for decades. Also, loss of equipment in war can require opening old weapons stockpiles.

is there anything other than the pistol in the us roster that is recent?

[killertowfoo]

Originally posted by Luke Skywalker:

is there anything other than the pistol in the us roster that is recent?

OCP- The uniform camouflage was inducted into service starting 2015. M-ATV fielding began mid 2009 and wouldn't be in any combat theater till 2010s. M3 MAAWS: 2011.

But even if there was literally only 1 item that was from 2099 while all the other items were from 1911, it would be impossible for the setting to be any time prior to 2099 unless we are accepting time travel as part of the game's lore.

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by killertowfoo:

This is entirely realistic/authentic as demonstrated in Ukraine with the Russians using T-72s

T-72 was never outdated/obsoleted in the Russian Army. In fact the T-72B3 (the one depicted in Squad) was the most common tank in service, still is probably despite hundreds being destroyed in Ukraine.

T-80 was originally made for the pure Tank formations (originally with a gas turbine instead of a diesel engine), while the T-72 was for the Tank batalilons of the (more numerous) Motorized Rifle Brigades and Divisions.

T-90 is essentially just a T-72B Chassis with a T-80U Turret on top with some extra gadgets thrown at it. Was originally named T-72BU because of this but renamed T-90 for marketing reasons after the iraqi T-72M performed so poorly in the second gulf war.

T-14 is a new design, but only about 20 have been produced and prodcution was cancelled due to to costs and higher training requirements. Russian Tank factories are currently just modernizing stockpiled T-72, T-80 and even T-64 for the war. Russian does not have a modern tank, apart from the few T-14 prototypes they cannot produce in significant numbers.

So yeah, T-72 may be old, but its not out of service and never was.

[coolman552]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

Originally posted by killertowfoo:

This is entirely realistic/authentic as demonstrated in Ukraine with the Russians using T-72s

T-72 was never outdated/obsoleted in the Russian Army. In fact the T-72B3 (the one depicted in Squad) was the most common tank in service, still is probably despite hundreds being destroyed in Ukraine.

T-80 was originally made for the pure Tank formations (originally with a gas turbine instead of a diesel engine), while the T-72 was for the Tank batalilons of the (more numerous) Motorized Rifle Brigades and Divisions.

T-90 is essentially just a T-72B Chassis with a T-80U Turret on top with some extra gadgets thrown at it. Was originally named T-72BU because of this but renamed T-90 for marketing reasons after the iraqi T-72M performed so poorly in the second gulf war.

T-14 is a new design, but only about 20 have been produced and prodcution was cancelled due to to costs and higher training requirements. Russian Tank factories are currently just modernizing stockpiled T-72, T-80 and even T-64 for the war. Russian does not have a modern tank, apart from the few T-14 prototypes they cannot produce in significant numbers.

So yeah, T-72 may be old, but its not out of service and never was.

isnt T-14 meant to be a command tank only? i think i heard something like that

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by coolman552:

Originally posted by Aegmar:

T-72 was never outdated/obsoleted in the Russian Army. In fact the T-72B3 (the one depicted in Squad) was the most common tank in service, still is probably despite hundreds being destroyed in Ukraine.

T-80 was originally made for the pure Tank formations (originally with a gas turbine instead of a diesel engine), while the T-72 was for the Tank batalilons of the (more numerous) Motorized Rifle Brigades and Divisions.

T-90 is essentially just a T-72B Chassis with a T-80U Turret on top with some extra gadgets thrown at it. Was originally named T-72BU because of this but renamed T-90 for marketing reasons after the iraqi T-72M performed so poorly in the second gulf war.

T-14 is a new design, but only about 20 have been produced and prodcution was cancelled due to to costs and higher training requirements. Russian Tank factories are currently just modernizing stockpiled T-72, T-80 and even T-64 for the war. Russian does not have a modern tank, apart from the few T-14 prototypes they cannot produce in significant numbers.

So yeah, T-72 may be old, but its not out of service and never was.

isnt T-14 meant to be a command tank only? i think i heard something like that

Never read that before. Might be they intend to use the few T-14 produced this way.

In 2015 when it was first presented to the public the russian MOD announced they wanted to produce 2300 T-14 Tanks by 2020. That was obviously unrealistic to say the least - essentially just propaganda.

In 2016 they then announced they would produce 100 until 2020 (including the 20 prototypes). This number was then reduced to 70.

2018 the russian MOD then said they would not decide about serial production before 2020 and later in 2018 there would be no serial production at all for the time being.

In 2020 they then said that 32 T-14 and 100 T-15 (the IFV on the same chassis) have been ordered to be delivered between 2023 and 2035.

So there are 20 T-14 Prototypes and since the russian Tank factories are busy modernizing old tanks (they can probably repair/modernize 50 old tanks for the cost of one new T-14) its is unlikely any T-14 will be produced in the next years and if they do it won't be in substantial numbers.

So for all practical purposes the T-14 won't play any meaningful role in the russian army for the forseeable future. Instead the T-72B3, T-90 and modernized older designs will be fielded.

Maybe when they emptied all their depots from old tanks they might produce some. According to this site: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Russia lost the insane amount of 13442 Tanks in Ukraine so far, of which: destroyed: 9349, damaged: 602, abandoned: 585, captured: 2906

There are even pictures to proof every one, although some pics might be in fact showing the same vehicle and the number could be 10-20 % smaller. Would still be an insane number.

[killertowfoo]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

T-72 was never outdated/obsoleted in the Russian Army. In fact the T-72B3 (the one depicted in Squad) was the most common tank in service, still is probably despite hundreds being destroyed in Ukraine.

T-80 was originally made for the pure Tank formations (originally with a gas turbine instead of a diesel engine), while the T-72 was for the Tank batalilons of the (more numerous) Motorized Rifle Brigades and Divisions.

T-90 is essentially just a T-72B Chassis with a T-80U Turret on top with some extra gadgets thrown at it. Was originally named T-72BU because of this but renamed T-90 for marketing reasons after the iraqi T-72M performed so poorly in the second gulf war.

T-14 is a new design, but only about 20 have been produced and prodcution was cancelled due to to costs and higher training requirements. Russian Tank factories are currently just modernizing stockpiled T-72, T-80 and even T-64 for the war. Russian does not have a modern tank, apart from the few T-14 prototypes they cannot produce in significant numbers.

So yeah, T-72 may be old, but its not out of service and never was.

I never said or implied the T-72 was out of service. The mosin-nagant is still technically in service.

My point was that the oldest equipment isn't a basis for determining what decade Squad takes place in and that armies that are in the process of modernization will use older generation equipment for decades even after a newer model starts being fielded.

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by killertowfoo:

Originally posted by Aegmar:

T-72 was never outdated/obsoleted in the Russian Army. In fact the T-72B3 (the one depicted in Squad) was the most common tank in service, still is probably despite hundreds being destroyed in Ukraine.

T-80 was originally made for the pure Tank formations (originally with a gas turbine instead of a diesel engine), while the T-72 was for the Tank batalilons of the (more numerous) Motorized Rifle Brigades and Divisions.

T-90 is essentially just a T-72B Chassis with a T-80U Turret on top with some extra gadgets thrown at it. Was originally named T-72BU because of this but renamed T-90 for marketing reasons after the iraqi T-72M performed so poorly in the second gulf war.

T-14 is a new design, but only about 20 have been produced and prodcution was cancelled due to to costs and higher training requirements. Russian Tank factories are currently just modernizing stockpiled T-72, T-80 and even T-64 for the war. Russian does not have a modern tank, apart from the few T-14 prototypes they cannot produce in significant numbers.

So yeah, T-72 may be old, but its not out of service and never was.

I never said or implied the T-72 was out of service. The mosin-nagant is still technically in service.

My point was that the oldest equipment isn't a basis for determining what decade Squad takes place in and that armies that are in the process of modernization will use older generation equipment for decades even after a newer model starts being fielded.

Yes, i don't think there was ever a specific decade or timeframe envisioned. Just "modern armed forces" in a very broad sense i guess.

[General Plastro]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

Originally posted by coolman552:

isnt T-14 meant to be a command tank only? i think i heard something like that

Never read that before. Might be they intend to use the few T-14 produced this way.

In 2015 when it was first presented to the public the russian MOD announced they wanted to produce 2300 T-14 Tanks by 2020. That was obviously unrealistic to say the least - essentially just propaganda.

In 2016 they then announced they would produce 100 until 2020 (including the 20 prototypes). This number was then reduced to 70.

2018 the russian MOD then said they would not decide about serial production before 2020 and later in 2018 there would be no serial production at all for the time being.

In 2020 they then said that 32 T-14 and 100 T-15 (the IFV on the same chassis) have been ordered to be delivered between 2023 and 2035.

So there are 20 T-14 Prototypes and since the russian Tank factories are busy modernizing old tanks (they can probably repair/modernize 50 old tanks for the cost of one new T-14) its is unlikely any T-14 will be produced in the next years and if they do it won't be in substantial numbers.

So for all practical purposes the T-14 won't play any meaningful role in the russian army for the forseeable future. Instead the T-72B3, T-90 and modernized older designs will be fielded.

Maybe when they emptied all their depots from old tanks they might produce some. According to this site: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Russia lost the insane amount of 13442 Tanks in Ukraine so far, of which: destroyed: 9349, damaged: 602, abandoned: 585, captured: 2906

There are even pictures to proof every one, although some pics might be in fact showing the same vehicle and the number could be 10-20 % smaller. Would still be an insane number.

Those numbers of lost tanks are mostly just ukraine propaganda tho, russia hasnt even fielded that total amount in the entire war (and 13k would mean they are literally lost their entired armored force, as its higher than their entire MBT tank fleet), the huge numbers mostly come from the early days of the war where the fog of war was high and we had fake stories of "Defenders of Snake Island", "The Ghost of Kiev" and other nonsense. Ukraine claimed they captured and destroyed these thousands of tanks within a extremely short amount of time (i believe within the first 4 to 6 months, so much so that they would technically have more tanks after 6 months of fighting than when they started the war, yet theres no video,photo or even plausible evidence, as the ukrainian airforce had no capability of doing so and we had no major tank battle in the war at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ground_Forces

[Towelie420]

Well the Huey is a wee bit outdated LOL

[FlashBurn]

Upgraded M60T's are from the 60's but with new turrets slapped on... the m113 looking thing is from the 70,s Huey's, the 60's. The light armor is newer sure, but Turkey is most certainly not more modern than other Nato member States like UK. Its some new stuff with a lot of old upgraded stuff. Most of the US stuff dates to the 80's...

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by General Plastro:

Originally posted by Aegmar:

Never read that before. Might be they intend to use the few T-14 produced this way.

In 2015 when it was first presented to the public the russian MOD announced they wanted to produce 2300 T-14 Tanks by 2020. That was obviously unrealistic to say the least - essentially just propaganda.

In 2016 they then announced they would produce 100 until 2020 (including the 20 prototypes). This number was then reduced to 70.

2018 the russian MOD then said they would not decide about serial production before 2020 and later in 2018 there would be no serial production at all for the time being.

In 2020 they then said that 32 T-14 and 100 T-15 (the IFV on the same chassis) have been ordered to be delivered between 2023 and 2035.

So there are 20 T-14 Prototypes and since the russian Tank factories are busy modernizing old tanks (they can probably repair/modernize 50 old tanks for the cost of one new T-14) its is unlikely any T-14 will be produced in the next years and if they do it won't be in substantial numbers.

So for all practical purposes the T-14 won't play any meaningful role in the russian army for the forseeable future. Instead the T-72B3, T-90 and modernized older designs will be fielded.

Maybe when they emptied all their depots from old tanks they might produce some. According to this site: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Russia lost the insane amount of 13442 Tanks in Ukraine so far, of which: destroyed: 9349, damaged: 602, abandoned: 585, captured: 2906

There are even pictures to proof every one, although some pics might be in fact showing the same vehicle and the number could be 10-20 % smaller. Would still be an insane number.

Those numbers of lost tanks are mostly just ukraine propaganda tho, russia hasnt even fielded that total amount in the entire war (and 13k would mean they are literally lost their entired armored force, as its higher than their entire MBT tank fleet), the huge numbers mostly come from the early days of the war where the fog of war was high and we had fake stories of "Defenders of Snake Island", "The Ghost of Kiev" and other nonsense. Ukraine claimed they captured and destroyed these thousands of tanks within a extremely short amount of time (i believe within the first 4 to 6 months, so much so that they would technically have more tanks after 6 months of fighting than when they started the war, yet theres no video,photo or even plausible evidence, as the ukrainian airforce had no capability of doing so and we had no major tank battle in the war at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ground_Forces

I find the numbers of destroyed vehicles also incredibly high, but im not sure if its all just propaganda. I regulary watch vids from the war and i have probably seen hundreds of russian tanks and other armored vehicles being destroyed or damaged by ATGM's, Artillery, other AT weapons, hit by Kamikaze Drones or Drone dropped Munitions, driving on mines etc. and likely not every occasion is being filmed or photographed.

Sure the number is huge but then the war is going on for over 600? days now. That would be 15 tanks destroyed on average every day. Also Russia does have tens of thousands ot mothballed tanks they started bringing into service since the first months of the war.

I remember an article discussing sat pictures of russian tank depots somewhere that have considerably emptied.

I guess its probably half the number in reality or even just a third..., but even that would still be immense.