ICO Didn't work.

[Bobr]

Let me start with a disclaimer since ICO fanboys have trouble reading more than a few sentences. I WANT the ICO to work. I want teamwork. I want slow paced, realistic game play.

According to the DEVS themselves, the ICO had 4 goals:

-Increase the amount of teamwork needed to win a fight.
-Create more meaningful tradeoffs between different factions, weapon types, and optic types.
-keep the game fun while making it more approachable for new and existing players.
-Mitigate the amount of punishment newer players experience in combat while learning the game.

The only goal that was accomplished was the last one. New players no longer get instantly shot when they run through an open field. It now takes a few seconds before they die. Besides that, not much has changed.

The 3rd point is subjective, but it seems the majority of players aren't having as much fun, given the reviews and discussions around the game.

2nd point is a failure. I cant see any real difference in game play between the factions, with the exception of insurgents not having scopes, but that was already in the game before ICO. Also there's still no reason to use anything besides the 4x scopes, since most fights are past 25 meters, and the best way to room clear, is to throw grenades into the building, instead of trying to push in.

And lastly, the actual teamwork needed to win hasn't changed, or even gone down in some cases. Most games are still TDM meat grinders on the current objective, with the winner being whoever figured out how to hide in bushes the best. FOBs were already pretty useless as anything besides a spawn point, due to artillery and mortars, but now they're a death trap due to suppression being so powerful. And its not like it requires teamwork to suppress anything. 3 guys and a rally can basically shut down a FOB unless its being defended by the entire team. The meta is still to spam FOBs everywhere so you can spawn and attack and die constantly.

The update was created in an echo chamber, with no actual input from average players. Average players do not download a separate game to test a buggy rework. Average players do not LARP with their YouTube subscribers. Average players want to play the video game, and will play however they want, unless they are virtually beaten into submission, usually by buffing the counter to how they play. Simply nerfing their playstyle wont stop them.

[Yantheman]

Originalmente postado por Bodean Abernathy II:

I don't understand the teamwork thing specifically. I never had a problem with team work AT ALL unless there was some retarded fool who didn't have a mic and just got the game. or people being purposefully difficult. Why did do they think they have to drive for more teamwork when it was already in a great place?

Dude what’s happening is that a bunch of people who have like … ten hours in squad and COULDNT handle its premise to begin with, have gotten caught up in a hype train/ some content creators are talking about how hardcore the game is now and they’re experiencing fomo.

That’s it. They won’t stick around because now, the very things that make squad challenging in the first place just have a whole other layer of difficulty to them. Now In addition to the teamwork that was ALREADY THERE, just getting kills is more demanding. These people will ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evaporate over the coming weeks because your average gamer couldn’t handle squad to begin with. There are fewer milsim
Players in the world than straight arcade shooter players, and this game is only becoming more demanding.

[epicrotfl]

Originalmente postado por Saica-Fox:

ico didnt work meanwhile squad has highest player numbers on steam in long time

Wow. Can you believe a major update that completely alters the way a game is played is followed up by a lot of people jumping on to check it out? That's totally never happened before!

[Aegmar]

I find myself using Ironssights, Reflex and Holos more often now. The advantage is you can ads 1-2 full seconds faster compared to someone with a magnified optic and aim stabilizes faster as well. Also with Irons and Holos the screen is not blurred out, i keep my peripheral vision and can react faster.

With a scope i can shoot more precise over a longer distance, but it takes longer to aim and i can't see anything outside of the scope, so thats a meaningful tradeoff, or not ?

[Aegmar]

Teamwork has totally increased btw. it isn't always effective but ppl are definitely more inclined to work with the Squad and stick together more. I even saw cases of ppl actively coordinating supressive fire and assault movements within a Squad.

Players need time to adapt and work out how to play now, that was to be expected. I get that its more stressful than just sprinting somewhere and rely totally on better reflexes and aim to quickly laser tag someone 300 meters away out of a full sprint, but that wasn't realistic, totally not, no matter what ppl make up here.

[Aegmar]

What i experience is that the instincts and reflexes longtime players learned over hundreds or thousands hours of playing Squad are now often outright harmful.

Before very aggressive playstlyes and rushing quickly was often rewarded. When i managed to make a quick sprint on a side of the enemy noone was actively watching i could often kill multiple enemies so fast they could not react.

Now Infantry moves slower, aiming takes more time, combat happens at a slower pace, Squads are not that far spread out anymore (so less 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 or 3 situations) and it doesn't work that well anymore, as intended. Still i often find myself following the instincts engrained by playing Squad a long time, but its now often the totally wrong thing to do.

It will take some weeks to adapt, but thats fine.

[Aegmar]

Originalmente postado por Bobr:

-Increase the amount of teamwork needed to win a fight.

Totally. Players haven't all figured out how to do that tho. Old reflexes and instincts are in the way.

Originalmente postado por Bobr:

-Create more meaningful tradeoffs between different factions, weapon types, and optic types.

Absolutely. Non-scopd weapons are totally superior now in close quarters. MG's have a distinct role now and can actually supress (almost noone is using it yet) and Marksman is useful again (if played right, which still rarely happens).

Originalmente postado por Bobr:

-keep the game fun while making it more approachable for new and existing players.

Well, im having fun, but i think its actually harder for new players now.

Originalmente postado por Bobr:

-Mitigate the amount of punishment newer players experience in combat while learning the game.

Here you are right. New players will of course run around a lot and not coordinate that much, not getting shot that fast right away makes little difference here.

[EVONiEE 疾風迅雷悪魔]

8 playtest, long dwindling debate in discord, and they did absolutely nothing.

legit there little to no changes to the gun handling from first playtest.

[Yantheman]

Originalmente postado por Aegmar:

What i experience is that the instincts and reflexes longtime players learned over hundreds or thousands hours of playing Squad are now often outright harmful.

Before very aggressive playstlyes and rushing quickly was often rewarded. When i managed to make a quick sprint on a side of the enemy noone was actively watching i could often kill multiple enemies so fast they could not react.

Now Infantry moves slower, aiming takes more time, combat happens at a slower pace, Squads are not that far spread out anymore (so less 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 or 3 situations) and it doesn't work that well anymore, as intended. Still i often find myself following the instincts engrained by playing Squad a long time, but its now often the totally wrong thing to do.

It will take some weeks to adapt, but thats fine.

I think it’s funny that you think the same guys who could annihilate people before…suddenly won’t be able to do that again.

I’ve been playing it a bit more. I’m curious- do you think that suddenly people with shooting kills would lose them? Or do you think that they’re just so turned off by the experience they’ll leave? Because frankly it’s kind of the same ♥♥♥♥ so far.

[Ranger]

+1

[Pzk. Ruby]

Originalmente postado por EVONiEE:

8 playtest, long dwindling debate in discord, and they did absolutely nothing.

legit there little to no changes to the gun handling from first playtest.

My guy, you asbolutely did not play the first playtest if you think thats true. Compared to PT1 the release version ICO is baby mode.

[orlathebeast]

Originalmente postado por Bobr:

Let me start with a disclaimer since ICO fanboys have trouble reading more than a few sentences. I WANT the ICO to work. I want teamwork. I want slow paced, realistic game play.

According to the DEVS themselves, the ICO had 4 goals:

-Increase the amount of teamwork needed to win a fight.
-Create more meaningful tradeoffs between different factions, weapon types, and optic types.
-keep the game fun while making it more approachable for new and existing players.
-Mitigate the amount of punishment newer players experience in combat while learning the game.

The only goal that was accomplished was the last one. New players no longer get instantly shot when they run through an open field. It now takes a few seconds before they die. Besides that, not much has changed.

The 3rd point is subjective, but it seems the majority of players aren't having as much fun, given the reviews and discussions around the game.

2nd point is a failure. I cant see any real difference in game play between the factions, with the exception of insurgents not having scopes, but that was already in the game before ICO. Also there's still no reason to use anything besides the 4x scopes, since most fights are past 25 meters, and the best way to room clear, is to throw grenades into the building, instead of trying to push in.

And lastly, the actual teamwork needed to win hasn't changed, or even gone down in some cases. Most games are still TDM meat grinders on the current objective, with the winner being whoever figured out how to hide in bushes the best. FOBs were already pretty useless as anything besides a spawn point, due to artillery and mortars, but now they're a death trap due to suppression being so powerful. And its not like it requires teamwork to suppress anything. 3 guys and a rally can basically shut down a FOB unless its being defended by the entire team. The meta is still to spam FOBs everywhere so you can spawn and attack and die constantly.

The update was created in an echo chamber, with no actual input from average players. Average players do not download a separate game to test a buggy rework. Average players do not LARP with their YouTube subscribers. Average players want to play the video game, and will play however they want, unless they are virtually beaten into submission, usually by buffing the counter to how they play. Simply nerfing their playstyle wont stop them.

you are a carzy man to talk facts to a mob.

[Bodean Abernathy II]

Originalmente postado por Fellington:

Originalmente postado por Saica-Fox:

ico didnt work meanwhile squad has highest player numbers on steam in long time

Yea all the servers in my region are full at peak time. If the update is so bad, why do I have to wait in 10+ player queues. It's a vocal minority.

Because when a new update hits, no matter what it is, people tend to download/play the game again to see what's up. Look at the recent review bomb.

[MadFrog]

I totally agree. This update totally missed the mark.

[The Hooch]

true, the ICO was poop

[ShotgunRCAF]

Originalmente postado por Bobr:

Let me start with a disclaimer since ICO fanboys have trouble reading more than a few sentences. I WANT the ICO to work. I want teamwork. I want slow paced, realistic game play.

According to the DEVS themselves, the ICO had 4 goals:

-Increase the amount of teamwork needed to win a fight.
-Create more meaningful tradeoffs between different factions, weapon types, and optic types.
-keep the game fun while making it more approachable for new and existing players.
-Mitigate the amount of punishment newer players experience in combat while learning the game.

The only goal that was accomplished was the last one. New players no longer get instantly shot when they run through an open field. It now takes a few seconds before they die. Besides that, not much has changed.

The 3rd point is subjective, but it seems the majority of players aren't having as much fun, given the reviews and discussions around the game.

2nd point is a failure. I cant see any real difference in game play between the factions, with the exception of insurgents not having scopes, but that was already in the game before ICO. Also there's still no reason to use anything besides the 4x scopes, since most fights are past 25 meters, and the best way to room clear, is to throw grenades into the building, instead of trying to push in.

And lastly, the actual teamwork needed to win hasn't changed, or even gone down in some cases. Most games are still TDM meat grinders on the current objective, with the winner being whoever figured out how to hide in bushes the best. FOBs were already pretty useless as anything besides a spawn point, due to artillery and mortars, but now they're a death trap due to suppression being so powerful. And its not like it requires teamwork to suppress anything. 3 guys and a rally can basically shut down a FOB unless its being defended by the entire team. The meta is still to spam FOBs everywhere so you can spawn and attack and die constantly.

The update was created in an echo chamber, with no actual input from average players. Average players do not download a separate game to test a buggy rework. Average players do not LARP with their YouTube subscribers. Average players want to play the video game, and will play however they want, unless they are virtually beaten into submission, usually by buffing the counter to how they play. Simply nerfing their playstyle wont stop them.

Well put