Squad
Gay Crusader 2020 年 12 月 7 日 上午 6:40
marksmen and sniper roles pointless
At the minute the Marksman and sniper roles are pointless as the magnification on the optics are the same as normal rifleman optics.

anyone else noticing this and is it planned to be addressed ??
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正在显示第 1 - 15 条,共 25 条留言
Kuya Burke 2020 年 12 月 7 日 上午 7:48 
There isn't a sniper role in the game, not what FPS gamers would call a sniper anyway. If you're looking for that lone-wolf, one shot one kill from a kilometer away type of gameplay, Squad isn't really trying for that, so you're going to be disappointed.

The marksman class should be looked at more as a scout and should have a more powerful set of bino's perhaps to make him more useful. Long range sniping is largely unhelpful in this game, so giving the Marksman a longer range scope would only encourage more people to try to be "snipers" and not contribute to the team much.
Darugdawg 2020 年 12 月 7 日 上午 8:34 
tbh sniping is both boring to both sides. its only good when youre feeling lazy. irl snipers are very effective but this is a game. if you noticed even in cod they put this highlighting effect because its no fun
Autoimmunity 2020 年 12 月 7 日 上午 8:40 
The MARKSMAN role (not sniper) in a squad is to be an asset to a squad by spotting enemy positions and providing supporting fire from a distance where they are difficult to be engaged by regular enemies. If you play the Marksman like this, you will have a much better time.

There is no true Sniper role in squad in the traditional sense because not only is it annoying for opposing players, it actually is a detriment to the sniper's team because revives can simply pick up anyone the sniper hits long range, so you have a player in a squad who's off on his own accomplishing essentially nothing for the team.
Geebus 2020 年 12 月 7 日 上午 9:50 
I think we need to get away from this idea that marksmen are for scouting or for spotting. They do this kind of thing the exact same as every other kit in the game. The only thing that they might bring to the table is that they are a bit better at shooting someone at long range. A marksman asking to "scout" might as well be asking permission to go lonewolf. Spreading the idea that this is their purpose really doesn't help anyone.

The best marksmen that I have had in my squads are always the guys who stick with the squad at all times. When they are with the squad they are much more likely to add to the squad. When they are off "scouting" (read: doing their own thing) they are only contributing to themselves. Yeah that guy might have twenty kills from flanking around and playing sniper but he isn't adding anything to their squad.
Super Sniper 2020 年 12 月 7 日 上午 11:23 
If you count my number of deaths ... then you talk different.
Sniper is very efficient if you are serious and very helpful in protecting your team from a distance.
ShaggyScout 2020 年 12 月 7 日 上午 11:51 
The most productive i've been as a marksman has been sticking with my squad, and taking a crow's nest position wherever we stop, keeping a lookout for enemies and engaging to slow them as our squad reorients or pushes.
FD_Stalker 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 2:19 
MEA marksman with G3SG1 is OP

ISIS and Militia need marksman rifle to make up their optic disadvantage, also when your teammates are bad, having marksman rifle is better than having grenade launcher ak / scopeless mg for them, at least they can hit something through scope
最后由 FD_Stalker 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 2:21
Hurricane Jose 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 7:22 
I think that the marksman role should be in the direct combat role (with a squad limit of 1) with extra smoke grenade colors to encourage them to work with the squad more.

Snipers should be demoted to fire support and get better binoculars and optics, as well as their own tutorial so people won't lone wolf with them. The people behind the French Foreign Legion mod expressed interest (through actions) at the idea of a sniper class for that faction and I think that a balance discussion regarding the kit is long overdue. Heck, any support ability (that doesn't take a million years to operate) would be nice to have on it.

A long-range rifle-based specialist should be an AMR sniper for anti-vehicle applications. Such a kit is obviously incredible at dealing with light vehicles such as humvees, technicals, and helicopters.

Alternatively a bolt-action specialist could slap down a secondary rally point.
最后由 Hurricane Jose 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 7:52
Onimaho 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 8:30 
引用自 Hurricane Jose
I think that the marksman role should be in the direct combat role (with a squad limit of 1) with extra smoke grenade colors to encourage them to work with the squad more.

Snipers should be demoted to fire support and get better binoculars and optics, as well as their own tutorial so people won't lone wolf with them. The people behind the French Foreign Legion mod expressed interest (through actions) at the idea of a sniper class for that faction and I think that a balance discussion regarding the kit is long overdue. Heck, any support ability (that doesn't take a million years to operate) would be nice to have on it.

A long-range rifle-based specialist should be an AMR sniper for anti-vehicle applications. Such a kit is obviously incredible at dealing with light vehicles such as humvees, technicals, and helicopters.

Alternatively a bolt-action specialist could slap down a secondary rally point.

I liked absolutely none of this except the idea of an anti-armor rifle....which could be fun if added as a specialist kit to the militia and insurgeants, 1 per team sort of thing in addition to the 2 hats.

Irons only btw, none of this anti-armor rifle with a 12x scope crap.
最后由 Onimaho 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 8:31
Hurricane Jose 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 10:14 
The biggest problem with sniper and marksman right now is how much it encourages players to lone wolf with it and get themselves killed for no real benefit.

And another point, I honestly I would rather have a mediocre grenadier than a mediocre marksman. Grenadier doesn't exactly need to have the best gamesense, just a direction to spam and with the right orders can make walls of smoke to control sight angles against a squad. Marksman isn't nearly as good at managing probability as grenadier, and managing probability is tantamount to covering bad gamesense.

Marksman and sniper are therefore not at all easy to use, and with how medics can keep anyone alive regardless of injury, not even that good from a theoretical perspective. Autoriflemen and gunners can keep constant pressure on one specific point in ways that a marksman just can't do better.

It has a bad skill floor and a bad skill ceiling. It needs stuff to make it more useful to the squad beyond simply a little more controllability than a rifleman because we already have something that does better in 90% of all situations. It doesn't have any optics advantage over the gunner. If it either got a stronger optic or if it was a direct combat role then it would obviously have a solid application for supporting the machine gunner or autorifleman in a fire and maneuver operation.

The SquadOps Hardcore mod just solves the "problem" by deleting the kit entirely. That is extremely unacceptable.
Hurricane Jose 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 10:26 
On the same topic of lone wolf ♥♥♥♥-for-brains if we can have the SL be able to lock out unwanted kits for his squad that would be a wonderful QoL change. As well as a "clear locks" button in such an application and a squad renaming feature.
最后由 Hurricane Jose 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 7 日 下午 10:31
Grizz_FMJ 2020 年 12 月 8 日 上午 4:26 
The "sniper" role you are referring to isn't a reconnaissance sniper section element. This is more a Line company with squad designated marksman . Huge difference.
SuperTaco 2020 年 12 月 8 日 上午 5:09 
引用自 Hurricane Jose
I think that the marksman role should be in the direct combat role (with a squad limit of 1) with extra smoke grenade colors to encourage them to work with the squad more.

Snipers should be demoted to fire support and get better binoculars and optics, as well as their own tutorial so people won't lone wolf with them. The people behind the French Foreign Legion mod expressed interest (through actions) at the idea of a sniper class for that faction and I think that a balance discussion regarding the kit is long overdue. Heck, any support ability (that doesn't take a million years to operate) would be nice to have on it.

A long-range rifle-based specialist should be an AMR sniper for anti-vehicle applications. Such a kit is obviously incredible at dealing with light vehicles such as humvees, technicals, and helicopters.

Alternatively a bolt-action specialist could slap down a secondary rally point.


Most of what you said is a big no. Anti material rifles are heavy. And generally require a 2-3 man team to operate properly . These teams are not meant to move around the battlefield a lot or used in EOD disposal.

There is no real need for sniper systems. DMR’s do there purpose. If the teams were larger then have more specialized assets would be good on a company or larger element but with a platoon sized element it is not.
Hurricane Jose 2020 年 12 月 8 日 上午 9:43 
An AMR is much, much lighter than the M2 Browning and is of comparable weight to the FN MAG. Of course, the PK/PKP are lighter than any AMR. The 2-3 man team requirement to operate the AMR also applies to the sniper rifle as well, and most of what that team is there for is defending the sniper.

Similar logic once applied to the (HAT) Carl Gustaff recoilless launcher before it got upgraded to its M4 aka M3E1 variant, but it does apply to the RPG-29. I guess that explains a lot about why the RPG-29 is not on the RGF's main arsenal.

And if it is necessary to have the AMR reflect a less mobile and more cooperative play style (which is rather likely) there is always the ammo crate, ammo bag, and vehicle ammo. Two magazines of AMR ammo and a pistol should be enough to motivate the specialist to work from a defensive position near someone using a proper rifle.

Point is, AMRs have similar weight to many existing kits and making them suit a two-man team is trivial.
最后由 Hurricane Jose 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 8 日 上午 9:47
SuperTaco 2020 年 12 月 8 日 上午 10:53 
引用自 Hurricane Jose
An AMR is much, much lighter than the M2 Browning and is of comparable weight to the FN MAG. Of course, the PK/PKP are lighter than any AMR. The 2-3 man team requirement to operate the AMR also applies to the sniper rifle as well, and most of what that team is there for is defending the sniper.

Similar logic once applied to the (HAT) Carl Gustaff recoilless launcher before it got upgraded to its M4 aka M3E1 variant, but it does apply to the RPG-29. I guess that explains a lot about why the RPG-29 is not on the RGF's main arsenal.

And if it is necessary to have the AMR reflect a less mobile and more cooperative play style (which is rather likely) there is always the ammo crate, ammo bag, and vehicle ammo. Two magazines of AMR ammo and a pistol should be enough to motivate the specialist to work from a defensive position near someone using a proper rifle.

Point is, AMRs have similar weight to many existing kits and making them suit a two-man team is trivial.

100 rounds of 7.62x51 nato that is what the FN MAG is chambered in weights ~6lbs that includes the links. 10 rounds of .50 BMG weighs ~4 lbs x2 is 8lbs also assume 1-2lbs per magazine and round up to 10lbs even. One AT-4 rocket is 6lbs. Depending on which model you choose you can carry of M72 Laws that is 1-2 rockets. That is just comparing the weight of the ammunition.

Comparing HAT or LAT to an AMR is plan ignorant. Everything you've explained that a AMR can do a LAT or HAT can do better. And H/LAT would need to be closer to there squad. Someone with an AMR is not going to be up and close there going to be.... lone wolfing.

H/LAT also provide more utility than an AMR. The Carl Gustaf not only has AT abilities but smoke too, RPG-7 AT and anti infantry. Last time I checked an AMR can't disable a tank or IFV and most APC's. Light vehicle yea an AMR can do work there but the M-ATV engine bay is designed to take direct hits from 7.62 rounds. I am sure the other vehicles have similar protections. The body though is meant to take on higher threats and an AMR is just not going to cut it.

As an SL I'm not there to capture equipment, my goal is to destroy or deny. Destruction or denial can be achieved with L/MMG or a H/LAT.


And like in your other post about radio jamming and inflatables. How would this benefit the game? What can an AMR do that a H/LAT can do. Adding in an AMR for the sake of it can disable vehicles is just nonsense.

If you want a specific spotter or scout class. That could be something implemented into a command squad. Using a laser ranger finder such as an AN/PED-1 or even just a simple spotting scope. This could help guide in CAS making them more accurate and able to hit a target.
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发帖日期: 2020 年 12 月 7 日 上午 6:40
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