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Another game changing curiosity building not included in this Mod is the one that gives +100% experience on Heroes.
But yeah, overall the Unfallen suck, even with the recent changes that starts them up with 2 vine-ships instead of one. Too easy to get screwed in PvP by others with, say, Close Borders, if a chocked point pirate base spawn didn't do the job already for them.
Just make sure you swap in and out buildings to make use of the banked industry on fixed turn cost buildings like planet colonizations and system developments because you can only bank 1 turn of industry. Also, when colonizing, settle on the hardest planet to colonize 1st and then get the 1 turn colonization planet done afterwards, and spread your minor pop types in all your systems to make use of the +science per population type quest reward.
BTW, if you want ES2 to be challenging, keep the number of Minor Factions to a minimum; they are "that" useful, and it's ez pz to totally outdo the AI with them at any difficulty.
Yes, Sim Camp give Unfallen nice Industry because on their starting system manpower, but you need to find it early game which is a 33% proposition at best (you will find it eventually because there are duplicates but early not so much, that's the reasoning behind the Curiosity Rewards mod), so you need access to Jadonix for System Development, or the minor civ that gives 1 industry per curiosity explored close enough so you can entwine it which almost never happens (or a special node with +50 industry next door which same). They are a bad race because their mechanic works against them.
Instant colonization races are at a disadvantage in that they cannot farm resources thru outposts. On top of that, Unfallen are at a disadvantage because they cannot skip a system and if the 1st colonizing option is 2 systems over is going to take you quite a while to have another system. They mitigate that in part if the node in between happens to be a special node but that still does nothing to your colonizing speed, or if the AI is stupid enough to colonize something next to your vines for you to declare War and invade since they don't guard systems on top of it, something a human would never do. A human would buyout all planet colonizations and have a 5 planet system fully colonized in 1 turn, something that will take between 7 and 10 turns for Unfallen to do. 10 turns is roughly 15% of an entire game when playing on Fast speed, the most common speed on PvP games.
The entwining mechanic is easier to mess with than for Unfallen to overcome it. A single scout stops you from colonizing, now you need to send ships to remove it. A single wandering pirate fleet can disrupt your early colonizing so you need a fleet to guard them if a pirate base is close by and if the base is on a chock point you need to destroy the base. A human closes borders on you and you need to declare War and some of your bonuses are gone, or invades a system of yours and you lose 3 more. A human UC player with a sense of humor parks a handful of cloaked scouts around you and you cannot colonize any system.
Now, that doesn't mean you cannot play Unfallen, but this whole "unleash the kraken" Unfallen take only works vs AI or if the players you are against are dumber than the AIs themselves. It is a very, VERY, galaxy generation random race when it comes to PvP. Next door Cravers don't stop you early game? Are you going to fight them with your 1 weapon scout? Are you going to invest early and heavily into military so your vine-ships costs 50% more? Because if you don't, rest assured the Cravers will.
Sim Camp is great if you managed to get it early. If you also got lucky with galaxy generation and can expand unmolested on nearby good systems (that's 3 IFs already), like when playing on a Disk-4 galaxy, then I suggest increasing the manpower generation thru Patriot Pills and Exotic Rations (and grab the +system manpower capacity techs while at it) because the 10% manpower generation is not fast enough, and those techs you want to have any time soon to exploit the +science and +dust per CP killed while you can, even if subpar due to Unfallen protector's fewer (than other races) support modules.
Hence my starting research being Rare Earth into Baryonic Shields. Opening up more curiosities for scans gave my start a noticeable improvement while hostility remained non existent. Drone Network into Cerebral followed by 2-3 extra scouts for coverage while stripping the armor plating from future vine ships allowed me to build 2 more at a decent pace while the initial 2 entangled a black hole. Around this point Sim Camps was discovered and I quickly put it to the front of the build queue while adjusting my science to take Machine Bacteria and Survival Suits to get the snowball rolling. My initial luxury also happened to be Dustciduous Trees so I felt rather confident shifting into Xeno Industry and focusing on unlocking a modernization as quickly as possible.
Also, yes, I would be initially fighting off advancement with the scout hull of a differing design. Focusing on building combat oriented scout hulls while leaning into dust buyout for improvements while hacking the pirates to keep power low while leaning into the Team Spirit battle tactic card for early fights. Level 2 armor and slugs, Nanobot repair and outnumbering the enemy 2-1 along side a sizable morale bonus made boarder patrol against Endless pirates something I hardly needed to pay attention to. By the time I had noticed my neighbors were Cravers I was already finished with research on proper military hulls, two fleets of combat scouts and a nice stack of 5 vine ships collecting systems at a rate I was rather content with on a normal speed PvP.
As for my actual probe equipped scouts, regardless of the faction I play, won't be getting into any flavor of combat until I've unlocked a CP value of 20+. They are in play with the singular goal of firing probes and will typically retreat from any combat they find themselves in. A scout ship on it's own is typically faster than other hulls and even in a pinch knowing how to manipulate movement can get them out of situations that should by all rights get them destroyed. I'm also the type of sadist that will strip the engines OFF of my Riftborn scouts for an extra probe so please by all means tell me with a straight face you are willing to wait 5 to 8 turns for it to drop out of warp in the next system after it runs.
On paper Patriot Pills and Exotic Rations offering an additional 400 manpower is good until you compare them to Planetary Guard and Integrated Weaponry offering another 1000 for half the cost in industry and a quarter the cost in science. Yes vine ships suck HARD at getting you to expand early so rather than join the race to build wide aim to build them tall like the regal trees they are. Please take all of the above with a grain of salt though as I imagine Endless-ly Modded Space 2 is quite a different beast than Vanilla.
Also, Patriot Pills and Exotic Rations converts an additional 30% of your Food to Manpower, the +25 Garrison Capacity per pop of Exotic Rations is nice too but that was not my aim. Early Sim Camp in Home System is a great gimmick for rushing expansion and buildings, but you need to pump up your other systems as well with +garrison capacity and high manpower generation to fill their Garrison up in a timely manner (the default 10% Food to Manpower is not fast enough even for a Food race). At least one of them needs to be a system with 4 or 5 hot planets for a shipyard (I try to get 2 of such systems). Not sure what you mean by Planetary Guard and Integrated Weaponry, if you mean the Tier 2 Military techs that increase Garrison Capacity, yes, you need them as I mentioned before but they don't do F-all for manpower generation.
All of the above, in this post and in my previous post, relates to vanilla ES2. Food races do get stronger the slower the speed you play on, but playing a Food race tall doesn't make much sense regardless of the speed of play. Sim Camp or not, you need to take advantage of your fertile planets with Unfallen pop boosted for faster pop growth than other races, Other races have better scouts and can research Machine Bacteria just as well, if not better. If by the end of the game you explored more than 150 curiosities, you are playing vs vegetables.
And I can respect not wishing to engage in what feels like a fruitless argument but perhaps you can see my point of view and frustration that I feel a growing need to backhand the pastry chef as they shamelessly spread their cream on a perfectly good pie. That is not Vanilla.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3297428986
Yes, I admit my reply came off a bit prickly and for that I apologize. I picked up the faction and went looking for info to better sharpen my gameplay and found very little but doom and gloom over them being weak. So I dipped harder into the gameplay and found some pieces that really dug myself in and stormed ahead even if it was a lottery shot that things worked out so well. Cool, I think I'll share this since this recent update really shook up the game with a decent chunk of adjustments and see if I can pick the brains of some players for things I might have missed or methods to smooth over the consistency a bit. Lets bat ideas around, get a discussion going and see how the update opened up shifts in early-mid game optimization. So what was the first reply I could look forward to?
Nah, they suck, Mod your game.
I'd like to pose a question to perhaps pull us onto the same page on this. Do you replace the pawns in front of the king and queen with rooks when you play black because you are at a disadvantage? What about starting a game of monopoly with an extra $500 because it's harder to win during the month you were born? Dare I forget the ever popular adjustment of marking a second box in tik-tac-toe because you are a Gemini?
Modding Endless is alot like the above. Don't bother to get better, change the rules so you don't have to go through the effort. That kind of thought process rubs me the wrong way. It will always rub me the wrong way. I don't enjoy being rubbed while I would like to have a productive conversation.
These are all very specific ideas to improve Unfallen play which you either ignore or don't fully understand them, like with the manpower generation idea and you saying the Tier 2 military techs are better because it gives more manpower system capacity. Now if you play vs AI then all is well and I wouldn't have bothered saying anything because the AIs suck, but on PvP it is a race and Unfallen fall short; however, they are good allies so you might want to consider an alliance instead of the "making the galaxy your birch" approach of yours, and they are a food faction so you might want to play them wide instead of paying them tall to avoid their sucky entwining mechanic.
For the record, after the latest patch I don't play modded ES2 when playing PvP, and speaking of curbing your enthusiasm, the Sim Camp building was available when this game went live 7 years ago, with the Unfallen early game synergy being just as old, but then again the 30% manpower generation increase is news to you and you don't even recognize it even when told about it, so maybe you don't play Unfallen all that often and just read bits and pieces here and there, as you say, to make a post about so-and-so looking for controversy.
Spam scout ships with manpower modules and rockets. Once unlocked, spam protector ships with manpower and rockets. Your good influence allows you to declare war. You automatically entwine systems you take over.
Vining ships are way too expensive to build for their slow turnover. On the other hand you need 2 military techs and you produce twice the number of scout invader ships per vining ship. The good food focus solves any manpower problems.
The only thing holding you back here is that you require proximity. But that's easily remedied by either waiting for enemies to come closer or bridge the links with an 8 turn entwining of a system.
Give it a try. It's more powerful than you think
You mean playing vs AIs, right? Because no human is going to be stupid enough to leave a new colony unprotected next to your vines for you to waltz in with a single scout and victory invade due to no defensive manpower on new colonies.
When I play Unfallen I try to get a 14 or 20 CP fleet soonish, mainly for defense and for turning minor civs' fleets and pirate's fleets into science and dust with the per CP killed modules because of their bad ship design. Invasion will depend on the manpower situation of the neighbor (like if I see their ships half empty or worst) and galaxy generation lack of luck thereof, but going on early Wars with the Unfallen crappy ships is a losing proposition versus humans who will reciprocate with ships that have more weapon slots.