Behemoths - useful for what exactly?

[Gregorovitch]

I built an economic one last game I think - all it seemed to do was add a smidge of FIDS to a system - but not influence (which is what actually mattered at the time). I bult a mining one - but it doesn't seem to work on your own planets and by this time there weren't any free planets to mine stuff from.

I looked at the military ones - but not very far. Before building one I happened across a Kraver military behemoth making a nuisance of itself in my space. I nervously sent in a couple of spare fleets to attack it fully expecting to lose at least one fleet trying to grind it down. But the first fleet slaughtered it easily. Then I looked at it's movement and IIRC saw behemoths are slow as funerals. A slow ship consuming 10 CP that can't beat even a ragged out-of-date second string fleet of "proper" fast war ships? Er, no thanks (I thought).

So I came to conclusion these behemoths are basically white elephants, highly situational at best. But maybe I'm missing something here. Please enlighten me.

[Hatsune Meepo]

First i need to mention that i am not talking about behemoth of hissho's faction (they got peculiar traits with behemoths and absolutely need 'em).

SO...i have played this game for a while and i have to admit that behemoths appear as massive elephants that try their best in combat but still fail miserably against a medium tier fleet: In fact behemoths build by IAs are simply awful and (most of the time useless).
HOWEVER behemoths are one of the most broken and adaptable units in the game (in my opinion oc).
Do u need a large battlecruiser that can instantly destroy every ship orbiting on an enemy planet without entering in a space battle? research the Ion wave and go for the jugg! are u more into massive ship's that rain death on your foe? upgrade it by researching military tech and u got the only unit in the game that can show a display force value of 180.000 ALONE
Are u pacifist? well, use economic behemoths on your home system to increase your fidsi production by a 25% for EACH behemoth on it.
Are u a sophon? Welcome to the sophonity! we got behemoths that just by staying on a special node reduce the cost of military/economic/scientific/development research by 15% for each behemoth (YES, u can have a reduction of almost 90%). Those super-weapons are AMAZING

oh yes, we got citadels that can make a system nearly undestroyable and that can shoot down any late game fleet in a single blast and we got, obv, a massive death-star cannon that can destroy every enemy system (the obliterator is by far my least favourite unit in the game)...

I think i made myself clear...trust me, those units are amazing!
If u need some others tips for behemoths or else, ask me ^-^

Hope u enjoy the game, and good luck out there!

[utilityguy]

A fully upgraded and Researched behemoth can give:

• + 50 FoodDustIndustryScience production
  
• +25% FDIS production
  Or
  
• +800 science per turn
  
• -15% technology research cost (for one research sector on the science tree), limit being -90%
  Or
  
• +5 Strategic Resource production

These are the boosts I find relevant when there's no empty planets left to mine. The Behemoths that proved most valuable to me were the research behemoths, because they allow for potential massive discounts to the science tree. The FIDS behemoths, while I used to use them all the time when the Hisso DLC came out, have lost their practical charm for me.

Hissho seem to be the one faction that heavily relies on researching Mining probes for their behemoths, as the Hissho Empire has a significant number of build orders and abilities that focus around all production being given to the capital system, which is what the mining probes do.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by Darth Fener:

If u need some others tips for behemoths or else, ask me ^-^

Thanks for the clarification. One question. Aroundt turn 80, Sophons, what Behemoth would you build first. like something seriously effective this stage of the game?

(..and if you know them off the top of your head the techs you need to build it)

[Hatsune Meepo]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

Originally posted by Darth Fener:

If u need some others tips for behemoths or else, ask me ^-^

Thanks for the clarification. One question. Aroundt turn 80, Sophons, what Behemoth would you build first. like something seriously effective this stage of the game?

(..and if you know them off the top of your head the techs you need to build it)

I am not a sophons specialist (i got riftborn as my main), but i would say some scientific behemoths maybe ( for the reduction of the cost of researches) and/or some production ones (if u got some high quality system u can improve their FIDS output by another 25%) while creating a defensive stronghold by building a citadel on them.
The combination of production behemoths+citadel upgrades gives you a + 45/50% (don't remember, sorry) of FIDS while providing 1000 defensive extra power for the system, making him nearly untochable by any enemy fleet (thanks to the planetary defense battery that fire once a round and deal roughly 3000 damage in one shot to a single enemy ship) and basically immune to any obliterator missile that target your system.
This option are for defensive one where u are playing like a dwarf in a fortress, sitting in and building your fortune of gold while bunkering from foes.
BUT if u wanna play some aggressive science boi, i suggest building some siege-like or some "big weapons" behemoths. Use the module for siege in combination with some repair or support stuff (like deployable ramparts, ultradense slug, shields and maybe some boarding capsule) to make an annoying behemoths that roam with your major fleet to absolute destroy enemy defense system and stealing their fleets for selling them on the market. Go for the "big weapons" one if u want to approach them more like a "all or nothing" manner. Mount modules like swarm missile, ultradense slug, torps and some "100% accurate laser boi" to have a behemoth that got around 30000 to 50000 of possible damage and absolute shread enemy fleets (much more effective with the blast effect battery that one-shot little ships if hits, but remember to mount some good repair drones modules).

That's all what i got to say... if u need further tips, just write me or keep posting in this discussion, i'll stay tuned!

[Hatsune Meepo]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

Originally posted by Darth Fener:

If u need some others tips for behemoths or else, ask me ^-^

Thanks for the clarification. One question. Aroundt turn 80, Sophons, what Behemoth would you build first. like something seriously effective this stage of the game?

(..and if you know them off the top of your head the techs you need to build it)

ops, sorry, didn't read about the tech part...
So, i'll give you my default pattern for each behemoths mentioned above in the previous comment and some tips if u will ever need (ofc first will be always behemoths blueprints):

Scientific one:
Behemoth analyzer->Behemoth generators->Mission flexibility->Behemoth advanced

Productions one:
Mission flexibility->Citadel blueprints (this last one is optional, because u need it only to make the C3 center that increase your maximum limits of behemoths at the cost of a major upkeep, because those economics ones are only worth by mass-producing them)

Citadels:
Citadel blueprints->Citadel basic upgrade->Citadel advanced upgrade->Citadel extension
(the last tech is really risky for the unlock of the weaponized system that sacrifice a part of dust and food to improve defense and industry, use it wisely if u are a non-riftborn empire)

Siege one:
Focused plasma->Behemoth generator->Behemoth weaponization->Deep space personnel system-> Tier 3 military deeds (this one do it only if the reward is the module "deployable ramparts" that is absolutely BROKEN)

"big weapons" guy:
this is really spicy, because u need only 3 extra techs to evolve the siege behemoth into this aberration:
Denyable operations->Juggernaut blueprints->Juggernaut module upgrade

this evolution of behemoth is the best for obtaining a battleship-like starship that can rain down deaths to your foes and as long your fleet contain a juggernaut it is TOTALLY IMMUNE to the ion wave of an enemy juggernaut... with the perfect setup (high tier weapons, modules and a lv.30 hero focused on fleet warfare) i got this beauty to 189k of attack displayed ALONE

i am done, for now. Tell me if something is not clear and/or need some other explaination

[Gregorovitch]

Thanks you very much for that - I shall digest and experiment.

Meantime, you are a Riftborn expert, you say?

SInce originally posting this the Riftborn had the insolence to attack me, laying siege to one om my systems. Quite a shindig. However what interests me is this:

I had a hell of fight to destroy their three fleets in orbit and having done so I'd thought job done. Far from it. They put one of their bloody singularity things on the system (something I can't see how to get rid of btw) and then proceeded to wage ground war turn after turn with no visible sign of a source of reinforcement. Like 10 turns. They had a manpower pool of some 4000 and I couldn't explain where it came from as I now had complete control space side again.

Eventually I ground them down and defeated the invasion. On spinning the turn after a bunch of other end turn events I got a battle against some sort of Ritfborn military behemoth which had suddenly materialised out of nowhere at the system in question.

I thought you might have an explanation of WTF was going on here.

[Hatsune Meepo]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

Thanks you very much for that - I shall digest and experiment.

Meantime, you are a Riftborn expert, you say?

SInce originally posting this the Riftborn had the insolence to attack me, laying siege to one om my systems. Quite a shindig. However what interests me is this:

I had a hell of fight to destroy their three fleets in orbit and having done so I'd thought job done. Far from it. They put one of their bloody singularity things on the system (something I can't see how to get rid of btw) and then proceeded to wage ground war turn after turn with no visible sign of a source of reinforcement. Like 10 turns. They had a manpower pool of some 4000 and I couldn't explain where it came from as I now had complete control space side again.

Eventually I ground them down and defeated the invasion. On spinning the turn after a bunch of other end turn events I got a battle against some sort of Ritfborn military behemoth which had suddenly materialised out of nowhere at the system in question.

I thought you might have an explanation of WTF was going on here.

Well well well, u stepped on the power of riftborns. Lemme explain what happend:

1) Their ships (in particular the hunters) are ones of the best, in my opinion, of the entire game.
Usually the IA put some torps and maybe 1/2 laser guns, so try to have at least 1 slug for each of your ship to counter the missiles and hold the line till every "tank" units are down. Once this is done, the hunters and attackers are basically glass cannons that cannot substain even one salvo of missiles or slugs in close range.

2) The formula for the generation of manpower is based on food produced, right?
SCREW IT
The riftborn got this special endless system development (like the one that convert part of your industry into science or dust) that convert 50% of their system industry into manpower. This feature can be improved with a particular quest that buff it till 100% and they can literally mass assault every single system u got by simply keeping a system witth this trait forever.

3) singularities:
This are the real essence of riftborn. Since they can manipulate time and space, they can build this singularities using dust and strategic resources (only one turn is required).
And this stuff, my friend, is ABSOLUTELY annoying while playing AGAINST riftborn.
There are 5 types of singularities that riftborn can produce (2 early game, 2 mid game and 1 late game), each one of this occupy 1 slot (u have 3 slots in early, 4 mid and 5 late based on your science tech tree) and last for 10 turns. The singularities are:

- Compression (require titanium)

increase FIDSI by 25% as well as +100% xp obtained from heroes and hacking speed

- Dilatation (require hyperium)

decrease FIDSI by 25% as well as -25% to exp obtained by heroes and hacking speed

- Rip (require antimatter)

+10% influence production on empire and battles can be replayed as long as this singularities
last. Also fleets can blink back where they have started their movements if they end in a
system affected by this singularity

- Fold (require adamantium)

+200% hacking speed, +10% of dust production on empire and automaticly gains the effect of
the first building that is in the costruction queue. Also fleet regain all of their movement points
once they arrive within the system

- Stasis (require oricalchum AND quadrinix)

+10% of science production on empire and blocks EVERY progress in the system (battles, construction, rebellion, invasion...) and freeze every entity in the system (heroes, fleets, pirates)

Those are every type of singularity riftborn can produce.The cost regarding minerals has a start of 20 for the early ones, 5 for the 3rd and 4th and 1+1 for the last one. This cost will be increased by +5 for every singularity that has been built during the game of the same type (2 compression ones has been built, my next one will cost 30 of titanium).

The singularities cannot be removed by anything, except if the riftborn player (or IA in this case) decide to expire them earlier. Once a system of yours acquires a singularity by Riftborn, if u are in a state of not-war with 'em, u can ask them to remove or be ready for war (the same decision that u can do when an enemy fleet orbits into a system of yours).


Continue asking me if something else happen, i'll be there!