UnFallen Vines question

[TK421]

Do they eventually spread on their own? One of my friends said they might, but I'm not entirely sure.

[vincentl]

No they won't do that.

[Dragonflame3321]

Your friend is wrong

[To Dream]

Vines do not spread on their own. You have to use your ships to spread them to non-hostile systems.

[Tashrinbackup]

Closest time they do is when you conquor and occupy a adjecent system to one you already vined.

[americanman_4_life]

NOPE!!
You need the "Vineship" and you need to grab other systems and entwine them with this vine ship! NOTICE... One vine ships takes 16 turns to entwine the next system. If you have 4 Vine ships (in one fleet together), it will only take you 4 turns I believe, to entwine the target system. If you have 8 Vineships (same fleet), you can entwine a target in 2 turns. IF you have one fleet of 16 ships?? Yes, you will entwine a target in 1 turn!

So it depends on you, how far and fast in any direction do you choose to expand? Must you expand to cover the galaxy by end game like the Ai does?? not really! If you become allies with other factions, your vines help your allies as well! The farther you spread the vines, the more detrimental it becomes to your enemies/adversaries!

KEEP IN MIND... Vines ARE VITAL and they are NOT PERMANENT!! Your vines can... AND WILL be cut, by your adversaries if you don't have a strong enough galaxy wide fleet to protect your vines. Why? I explain...

I will try to post some screenshots with edits after i complete the message!! OR you can browse through my screenshots. I have 100's + in just weeks.

In my current game, I'm playing Hissho! Unfallen are CLEAR on opposite side of my galaxy from me. It's a 4 point spiral, and from my main home cluster of systems, the spiral i'm in, I had to cross over the next spiral over, before reaching the Unfallen home clusters. Like i said, quite a ways away. By mid game, they had almost every system between my own and thiers entwined. And they easily colonize systems if not already colonized by simply having Vines. They can spread RAPIDLY if played right, because of their vines. do they need to colonize every system they entwine? No, but makes it easy to do so. In my game, i asked repeatedly, for them to stop entwining, and remove their vines from my own systems! They kept refusing. So I finally went to war. I found their home system. And their first 3-4 systems were all in single lines back to last possible system in that "leg" of the spiral. The last system going down the leg, was their HOME system.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2186038829

ME, problem so huge, so far, so dramatic, and so difficult to defeat?? NOPE... I aimed the first shot I fired from my Obliterator cannon, at the "SECOND" system they had from their HOME.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2186038850

Took 15 turns later (it was early, and I had yet to upgrade, and i said it was far), and the Obliterator Missile HIT the target, the #2 system, killing 2 planets, destroyed. System was no more. NO shield block, no military defending. The system hit was gone. Vines still there, but system was gone. I timed a fleet, big fleet, to arrive on target system one turn later. And they did. The Unfallen never approached this fleet, though so close to their Home. They did have 2x Behemoths defending Home, including one turn Juggernaut few turns later. They took too long.
Every turn passing, you can see those vines faiding away between the system I was gaurding, and the home, and the #3 system as well. Took my fleet to stand by, for 10 turns. I counted. On turn #10, the vines between were NO MORE. NEXT TURN... the ENTIRE UNFALLEN KINGDOM WAS GONE except the home system. That was the only one left, as far as vines/systems. The entire galaxy map ws freed instantly on that 10th/11th turn! All vines vanished, all systems were suddenly uncolonized. Unfallen had no control over any of it!


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2186039008

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2186039243

WHY??? Cause I cut their VINES so to speak. Once i cut them enough, all the rest of the Unfallen kingdom, was "Severed" from their "HEART"! If you've played the faction enough, and read through the lore, you know what I'm referring to. All the vines withered away, without their connection to their Heart. All systems were open for taking control by anyone able and willing to move in. And many have.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2186039260

So... again... Defend your vines wisely!! It's the single strand stretches that hurt you. Or him. He had multiple systems in a single row following the position of the heart, which really, was an unfortunate for that unfallen! cause of the map i was on. Cause of me i guess you can say. I chose a 4 leg, eucalyptical spiral or something like that. All 4 spirals had a long stretch of systems from one end to the other. Short of connecting at the center, all 4 leg of systems stopped, and their was a 5 cluster of systems on it's own string of systems, across the center, and all 4 legs eventually discovered, had wormholes from the center cluster, and the end of each string, mostly, had a wormhole to another leg next to.

Edit. I added screenshots to explain, but placed within the text, to show as it was being told!

[americanman_4_life]

To simply add to what I explained above... (btw, NOTHING is simple for me... lol)! Previous game I played, before Hissho, if you go far enough back on my screenshots (I'm not this time), you can see. I was playing Vodyani, and Unfallen were on my map. They were my neighbors than, and the galaxy was a bunch of large clusters. I couldn't really cut their vines in any one spot, they had enough creating a huge web, I would of had to cut many vines, to make any clusters go away.

So what'd I do? I mustered up 3-4 large assault fleets and went straight for the heart! One fleet was what I call an ALL Inclusive, Invading, Seiging fleet, I used to Seige, Core Crack, or Invade targets, due to the mix of modules the ships included.

When I finally conquered the HOME system, the Heart, was destroyed, by means of Siege and Invade! Actually I used the CORE cracker and targeted the home planet itself. I held the seige for 10 turns, in which 5 different Vines connected to this home system, slowly withered. When dead, the entire Unfallen kingdom was... well, murdered!! I'm such a monster!! Than it was even more systems entwined and colonized than what I had to deal with in my current (shown above). So if your fallen... you must Guard your heart. Guard your vines! IT'S CRITICAL!!

But... is this a BUG you ask? Surely this can't be by design?? Oh yes it is! It was designed this way! The Unfallen's biggest strength is their Vines! They don't get colony ships, they get vine ships. They don't build outposts, they entwines systems. They don't need to wait after entwining, colonizing is a simple and instant decision. They get speed bonuses, shared by allies, and defensive bonuses, all adversaries have problems going through, and often get forced to go around the vined systems, going long ways, simply because the vines slow down any adversary's ships. They don't even need to colonize systems to gain their resources, they just entwine them! They gain resources from unoccupied, enemy, and allied systems, just because they entwined them. And at a whim, when something future is discovered and they "must have" as long as no other faction already has a colony, they can colonize any entwined at the whim of choosing to press the button.

So yes, it's a HUGE setback against the Unfallen!! But that's how the game is. Think of ANYTHING pertaining to any other race!! Their biggest strength is likely their biggest weekness!! Vodyani and the Ark's? Powerful colonizing Battlestation vessels acting as independant mother ships attaching to systems? They lose the systems when they lose the ARK! Easy enough to unlink and move, also detrimental as an entire colony is gone, when destroyed. And said colony not doing anything when Ark is on the move.
Hissho and the Keii?! Their unique currency shows their level of honor. They get no happiness, it's their Honor instead. All systems are in sync with the keii. Easy to restore, sacrificing your own! On a whim, I can sac 1 pop from 6 systems same turn, and gain 40 something keii (happiness) by next turn!! The keii add big bonus to systems, and to the military so long as it stays good.
The Cravers must consume everything to keep moving forward!! So long they do, they continue to get MOST UNFAIR advantage of bonuses, but as soon as they slow down, they start to accumulate unfair disadvantages.

Every race has unique UNFAIR Bonuses/strengths, which also is a double edge sword as an unfair setback for faction as well... Depends HOW you play them!!

[Groo the one]

Originally posted by Tashrinbackup:

Closest time they do is when you conquor and occupy a adjecent system to one you already vined.

Originally posted by americanman_4_life:

NOPE!!
You need the "Vineship" and you need to grab other systems and entwine them with this vine ship!

Tashrinbackup is right this case.